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[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I'm listening to the 12:03 podcast now.  One of the interesting things he said is that Maric was a rogue.  I guess I hadn't pictured that, but it makes sense.  Sooo... DW Ali and Archerstair is bringing Alistair closer to his roots after the templars corrupted him.  

A rogue.  That wore plate.  A wielded a sword and shield. 

I don't recall Maric wielding a shield?  Do you have a TC quote about that?

Duncan wore plate of a sort, too.  Armor is not really the issue, rather his skill set.  The reason I thought it made sense after I thought about it was his sneaky mission to kill Severan.  Sounds like some rogue skills and inclinations there.


King Alistair is ToPs.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:43 .

[errant_knight]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Yes, what exactly would be so bad about that?  Fereldan merging with Orlais would bring a lot of wealth, power and political influence to the country.  And the king would be of Fereldan blood.  It's not as if Fereldans would suddenly become enslaved again.

At the cost of its independence and sovereignity? Of its very identity and culture?
This would be nothing less than a subtle invasion.

And the offsprings of the king will be educated in Orlais and will be for all intents and purposes Orlesian.

Rome and Han Dynasty China had this down to a T.
Empires are never good things to merge with.

Bring it around, Giggles. That relates to Alistair....how? Bet you can find a way.

[Monica21]

errant_knight wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

Back shot.
*snip*

Hot~!

Monica:  Anora knew and says Cailan knew.  I trust her on that one.

Ah, been too long. Well, that's curious then. It's possible he sent Alistair to the Tower for the same reason he didn't invite Eamon's soldiers, and that was to keep him from "getting in on the glory."

I thought he didn't want to wait on Eamon's soldiers, not that he didn't invite them, but in any case, I think he was preserving the only heir he had--and the only person capable (as far as he knew) of producing a Theirin heir.

 Axekix, Sarah, why don't you see if you can find a way to relate what you're interested in to Alistair--I'm sure there's a way if you're creative.

I remember Duncan saying something along the lines of "your uncle reminds you that his troops are ready for you." That gave me the impression that Eamon was ready but Cailan never called them.

[cmessaz]

Wow, this info shocks me. Umm, I'm gonna say that I officially feel sorry for Anora, and Cailen was indeed an ****.

Modifié par cmessaz, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:43 .

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...
Well needless to say there is a difference between being occupied/conquered and allying with an empire.  With Cailan on the throne I doubt he'd allow injustices on his people, if anything I thought of Cailan as a (overly optimistic) visionary.

I think the issue is that Ferelden would not see it as an alliance, but as a sneaky take-over type of deal.  If the intent is to produce heirs, Cailan and Celene would have to spend time in each other's company, and that would require at least one monarch to be away fromt heir country.  Shall we place bets on which monarch that would be?

And I think Cailan was overly optomistic, but not a visionary.  He seemed like a good guy, if slightly too naive.  he probably could have gotten away with marrying an Orlesian noble, but the Empress?  I think Fereldans would have freaked out.  Like KoP said, and we discussed it in the old thread, the children would have been raised in Orlais, educated in Orlais.  When they came of age, it would be putting an Orlesian on the throne, regardless of who their father was.

As for Cailan sending Alistair to the tower.... I don't think it was to keep him from glory, I truly don't.  I really do like to think it was Cailan realizing at the last moment that he should make sure there was some provision in case the worst happened.  I'd like to think he had enough foresight for that.

[errant_knight]

cmessaz wrote...


Wow, this info shocks me. Umm, I'm gonna say that I officially feel sorry for Anora, and Cailen was indeed an ****.

Actually, you should listen to what David Gaider said about it. He makes it sound like Cailan didn't have much choice but to divorce Anora. He went into that part in some detail.

LadyDamodred wrote...

As for Cailan sending Alistair to the tower.... I don't think it was to keep him from glory, I truly don't.  I really do like to think it was Cailan realizing at the last moment that he should make sure there was some provision in case the worst happened.  I'd like to think he had enough foresight for that.

That's how I see it too.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:45 .

[tuppence95]

errant_knight wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

Back shot.
*snip*

Hot~!

Monica:  Anora knew and says Cailan knew.  I trust her on that one.

Ah, been too long. Well, that's curious then. It's possible he sent Alistair to the Tower for the same reason he didn't invite Eamon's soldiers, and that was to keep him from "getting in on the glory."

I thought he didn't want to wait on Eamon's soldiers, not that he didn't invite them, but in any case, I think he was preserving the only heir he had--and the only person capable (as far as he knew) of producing a Theirin heir.

 Axekix, Sarah, why don't you see if you can find a way to relate what you're interested in to Alistair--I'm sure there's a way if you're creative.

I also think Cailan sent Alistair to the Tower in order to protect him.  It's been awhile since I did RtO.  Didn't we learn that Cailan had a pretty good idea that he wasn't going to survive the battle?  He was very insistent, when the our warden says she can handle the job herself, he said no Alistair needs to go too.

[Axekix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Yes, what exactly would be so bad about that?  Fereldan merging with Orlais would bring a lot of wealth, power and political influence to the country.  And the king would be of Fereldan blood.  It's not as if Fereldans would suddenly become enslaved again.

At the cost of its independence and sovereignity? Of its very identity and culture?
This would be nothing less than a subtle invasion.

And the offsprings of the king will be educated in Orlais and will be for all intents and purposes Orlesian.

I don't really think it's that black and white.  The two countries coming together doesn't mean Fereldan's history and culture just automatically goes out the window (unless they allow it to I suppose).  As for independence, well I suppose that's a matter of perspective.  At the time they were worried about being overrun by the blight.  Independence serves little purpose if your nation is burned to the ground. 

It seems that Cailan wanted to strengthen his country and mend bridges with Orlais for a peaceful future.  It doesn't seem so terrible to me.

[Merilsell]

So who let Alistair still wearing Cailan's armor now? xD

[cmessaz]

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...


Wow, this info shocks me. Umm, I'm gonna say that I officially feel sorry for Anora, and Cailen was indeed an ****.

Actually, you should listen to what David Gaider said about it. He makes it sound like Cailan didn't have much choice but to divorce Anora. He went into that part in some detail.

Because she was barren? Watch out my queen Couslands.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
  Like KoP said, and we discussed it in the old thread, the children would have been raised in Orlais, educated in Orlais.  When they came of age, it would be putting an Orlesian on the throne, regardless of who their father was.

Aaah, good old days. I actually had that specific discussiuong with you in mind when I typed this

To bring this on topic, I officially declare that I believe even unhardened Alistair to be infinately better than Cailan.

[cmessaz]

Merilsell wrote...

So who let Alistair still wearing Cailan's armor now? xD

Just the shield

[errant_knight]

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Yes, what exactly would be so bad about that?  Fereldan merging with Orlais would bring a lot of wealth, power and political influence to the country.  And the king would be of Fereldan blood.  It's not as if Fereldans would suddenly become enslaved again.

At the cost of its independence and sovereignity? Of its very identity and culture?
This would be nothing less than a subtle invasion.

And the offsprings of the king will be educated in Orlais and will be for all intents and purposes Orlesian.

I don't really think it's that black and white.  The two countries coming together doesn't mean Fereldan's history and culture just automatically goes out the window (unless they allow it to I suppose).  As for independence, well I suppose that's a matter of perspective.  At the time they were worried about being overrun by the blight.  Independence serves little purpose if your nation is burned to the ground. 

It seems that Cailan wanted to strengthen his country and mend bridges with Orlais for a peaceful future.  It doesn't seem so terrible to me.

Guys, c'mon....Alistair--bring him into the discussion, or you have to talk about something else.

[LadyDamodred]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I'm listening to the 12:03 podcast now.  One of the interesting things he said is that Maric was a rogue.  I guess I hadn't pictured that, but it makes sense.  Sooo... DW Ali and Archerstair is bringing Alistair closer to his roots after the templars corrupted him.  

A rogue.  That wore plate.  A wielded a sword and shield. 

I don't recall Maric wielding a shield?  Do you have a TC quote about that?

Duncan wore plate of a sort, too.  Armor is not really the issue, rather his skill set.  The reason I thought it made sense after I thought about it was his sneaky mission to kill Severan.  Sounds like some rogue skills and inclinations there.

Maric wore full plate.  *shrugs*  That says warrior to me, not rogue.  And I thought I recalled talk of a shield.  I will poke through the books after.  And I didn't see his mission to kill Severan as particulary sneaky.  *shrugs*  Nothing about his skills or demeanor in either book says rogue to me. Are you sure DG meant it as the class and not just a descriptor?  I mean, Loghain in the beginning of the TST is totally a rogue, and yet ends up a S&S warrior.

[Monica21]

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...


Wow, this info shocks me. Umm, I'm gonna say that I officially feel sorry for Anora, and Cailen was indeed an ****.

Actually, you should listen to what David Gaider said about it. He makes it sound like Cailan didn't have much choice but to divorce Anora. He went into that part in some detail.

LadyDamodred wrote...

As for Cailan sending Alistair to the tower.... I don't think it was to keep him from glory, I truly don't.  I really do like to think it was Cailan realizing at the last moment that he should make sure there was some provision in case the worst happened.  I'd like to think he had enough foresight for that.

That's how I see it too.

Except that Cailan is the king and can do whatever he wants. He was acting on advice, presumably from Eamon considering that's the other letter you read. He certainly doesn't have to do anything about Anora, let alone divorce her and marry the Orlesian empress, for Andraste's sake.

[errant_knight]

cmessaz wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...


Wow, this info shocks me. Umm, I'm gonna say that I officially feel sorry for Anora, and Cailen was indeed an ****.

Actually, you should listen to what David Gaider said about it. He makes it sound like Cailan didn't have much choice but to divorce Anora. He went into that part in some detail.

Because she was barren? Watch out my queen Couslands.

I suppose that's true--except for the fact that Alistair knows that going into the marriage, and knows that civil war might happen even when there IS an heir. He might no feel as compelled to do something about it.

[cmessaz]

Regardless of Anora being barren, fine marry someone else but the Empress of Orlais? Come on.

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...
It seems that Cailan wanted to strengthen his country and mend bridges with Orlais for a peaceful future.  It doesn't seem so terrible to me.

The best way to do that would be to marry a member of the empress's family and not the empress herself.  It's why when fics have Alistair marry an Orlesian noble, it sort of makes sense.  Your tie the two royal families together without either one having to give something up.

Also, Cailan had to have begun these dicussions before the Blight.  So saying it's an alternative to Ferelden bruning down doesn't really work.

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...
Well needless to say there is a difference between being occupied/conquered and allying with an empire.  With Cailan on the throne I doubt he'd allow injustices on his people, if anything I thought of Cailan as a (overly optimistic) visionary.

I think the issue is that Ferelden would not see it as an alliance, but as a sneaky take-over type of deal.  If the intent is to produce heirs, Cailan and Celene would have to spend time in each other's company, and that would require at least one monarch to be away fromt heir country.  Shall we place bets on which monarch that would be?

And I think Cailan was overly optomistic, but not a visionary.  He seemed like a good guy, if slightly too naive.  he probably could have gotten away with marrying an Orlesian noble, but the Empress?  I think Fereldans would have freaked out.  Like KoP said, and we discussed it in the old thread, the children would have been raised in Orlais, educated in Orlais.  When they came of age, it would be putting an Orlesian on the throne, regardless of who their father was.

Well as far as heirs are concerned, being Orlesian or Fereldan should be less of an issue by that point.  Even if they're raised as orlesians, they'd have a Fereldan father who was by most accounts a good man.  I suppose I don't see the problem, unless we're presuming all Orlesians hold contemptuous views towards Fereldan.

[errant_knight]

Monica21 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...


Wow, this info shocks me. Umm, I'm gonna say that I officially feel sorry for Anora, and Cailen was indeed an ****.

Actually, you should listen to what David Gaider said about it. He makes it sound like Cailan didn't have much choice but to divorce Anora. He went into that part in some detail.

LadyDamodred wrote...

As for Cailan sending Alistair to the tower.... I don't think it was to keep him from glory, I truly don't.  I really do like to think it was Cailan realizing at the last moment that he should make sure there was some provision in case the worst happened.  I'd like to think he had enough foresight for that.

That's how I see it too.

Except that Cailan is the king and can do whatever he wants. He was acting on advice, presumably from Eamon considering that's the other letter you read. He certainly doesn't have to do anything about Anora, let alone divorce her and marry the Orlesian empress, for Andraste's sake.

Acorrding to DG, it was all about preventing civil war, and continuing the Theirin line. In a patriarchy, it's the father who's important--allowing Alistair to become king, and any child Cailan were to produce with whomever.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Also, Cailan had to have begun these dicussions before the Blight.  So saying it's an alternative to Ferelden bruning down doesn't really work.

Did he?  It's been a while since I played but I thought the talks of allying with Orlais were started with the Darkspawn threat.

[Monica21]

errant_knight wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

cmessaz wrote...


Wow, this info shocks me. Umm, I'm gonna say that I officially feel sorry for Anora, and Cailen was indeed an ****.

Actually, you should listen to what David Gaider said about it. He makes it sound like Cailan didn't have much choice but to divorce Anora. He went into that part in some detail.

LadyDamodred wrote...

As for Cailan sending Alistair to the tower.... I don't think it was to keep him from glory, I truly don't.  I really do like to think it was Cailan realizing at the last moment that he should make sure there was some provision in case the worst happened.  I'd like to think he had enough foresight for that.

That's how I see it too.

Except that Cailan is the king and can do whatever he wants. He was acting on advice, presumably from Eamon considering that's the other letter you read. He certainly doesn't have to do anything about Anora, let alone divorce her and marry the Orlesian empress, for Andraste's sake.

Acorrding to DG, it was all about preventing civil war, and continuing the Theirin line.

He doesn't need to marry the Empress to do that though.

[Merilsell]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
To bring this on topic, I officially declare that I believe even unhardened Alistair to be infinately better than Cailan.

I think even the political not so versed Alistair would have epically facepalmed about Cailan's intent.

[cmessaz]

I hate to say it, but continuing the Theirin line fine, with the Celene the Thieren line would mean JACK. I somehow doubt Eamon was in on this one.

And Alistair is really hot,.

Modifié par cmessaz, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[tuppence95]

 I'm beginning to feel sorry that I posted this info.  

I think everyone's so excited and posting quickly, not seeing the requests to please stay on topic.

How does this relate to Alistair?