39010 réponses à ce sujet

[BevH]

The whole Goldanna thing kind of comes out of the blue, for me. I mean, really, when did Alistair have time to do this research anyway? And the HNF version is really... um...

(short, short version:)

Alistair: blather, blather, blather
Goldanna: angry rant (the word I wanted to use was censored )
HNF: something noble
Goldanna: And who's this tart? Someone to carry your stuff?
HNF: "blink, blink" Let's leave. Now.

Editied for top:

Modifié par BevH, 07 janvier 2012 - 09:28 .

[Penarddun]

It makes Alistair look like a total fool, and Goldanna like a harpy, turns both of them into simple caricatures. And then the Warden tops it all with the most stupid 'hardening' line about everyone being on his own. When the whole game is about that you need help of the others to survive. All my Wardens are offended by that line. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

I agree with you that the whole scene wasn't done in the way I would have wanted it to play out. But the line is "everyone is out for themselves" isn't it? Which is not the line I wanted to say at that point AT ALL, but if I replaced it with "the whole world is horrible" which is something I've grumbled to myself when confronted with someone who reminds me of my cynical side. So in that respect the line does make sense. But in a very narrow context.

Personally, I wish there was the option to say something to Alistair like, blood and family ties do not mean what you think they mean. Family you've never met are strangers, nothing more. And family you do know can still be selfish to you and not have your best interests at heart. And to emphasis the importance of friends who you meet and form bonds of trust with, like the party members. It seems Alistair's whole story revolves around his family members acting selfishly toward him, and complete strangers (aka Duncan, and the Warden) becoming his real family.

But it isn't completey unrealistic to think Alistair would search out his sister. Because he has a strong sense of duty and wanting a family, so he grabs at whatever straws he can. It is naive, but again that's what makes Alistair's character. Even with all the terrible things that happened to him so far, the world hasn't "gotten to him" yet. That's exceptionally rare. It's also what allows for him to have the potentially most tragic endings in the entire game. He is the epitome of the tragic hero. A character like his, in other stories, would always die or be destroyed, because they are in such stark contrast to the rest of the world. That is his greatest strength and his greatest weakness.

Modifié par Penarddun, 07 janvier 2012 - 10:48 .

[Merilsell]

tklivory wrote...

The short, short version:

Goldanna: *says something stupid*

Alistair: *tries valiantly to like his sister*

Lenya: *sarcastic comment*

Goldanna: "Who's the tart then?"

Lenya: *complicated activity involving knives*

Alistair: ".... All right, we're done here, I suppose."

That about it, Meri?     

Ahahaha, awesome.

Well, almost, tbh. I would need a lot more words and emotions, of course. Because I can't have Lenya go all stab stab kill kill anymore, that is so...2010 But I look forward to write this scene in other form, yet it will be in my FF. Because it serves me as a catalyst for another....thing that takes its beginning there.   Anyway, the process of toughing Alistair's self up through one magical (crappy) sentence is....so very meh. Life is gradually learning through experience and not because you visit your sister you have never seen before. I understand the writer's intent behind the scene, though, namely the disentchantment of a whole worldview for Alistair. Yet like so much else in the game it is...poorly executed. Yes, it serves it purpose after all, but if you look at it more closely like Klidi and pretty much every Alistairian has done you notice: It is crap.

Which is why I will handle this scene purely out of Lenya's view and push her into the limelight during and after it, because she is the real family he has and the other way around. Even sharing the same, tainted blood if you will. And that is where the focus for Alistair friendly player should have been. Much more emotional this way. Or that Alistair recognizes that he is alone and has nothing but his duty as a Warden/ for his country for Alistair hating PC and players. Or something like that.

As for the hardening mechanics...*giggles at the wording* it should have happened gradually all through the game and not there in one place with one line. Alistair is a Warden, someone who kills darkspawn in order to survive and sees the archdemon in his sleep. I mean this is bound to leave some traces, even more if he is going to see the havoc they cause in places he had been before. Or to make it less abstract: In my FF they needed to kill a little girl because she was tainted. In a destroyed Lothering. Fitting to his character, he couldn't do it, ran away from it and left Lenya alone with the deed. It was something he regretted deeply afterward, because he left her alone with something so terrible. Yet he was faced with the consequences of an event, in this case the Blight, caused and it changed something in him.

Which is why I found it such a waste we don't get to see the destroyed Lothering again and a reason why I wrote this.

Ah well, game mechanics. In my case I never paid that much heed to it. Until I started to write my story, that is. Now I'm soooo very aware of its limitation. Sigh.

Penarddun wrote...
Personally, I wish there was the option to say something to Alistair like, blood and family ties do not mean what you think they mean. Family you've never met are strangers, nothing more. And family you do know can still be selfish to you and not have your best interests at heart. And to emphasis the importance of friends who you meet and form bonds of trust with, like the party members. It seems Alistair's whole story revolves around his family members acting selfishly toward him, and complete strangers (aka Duncan, and the Warden) becoming his real family.

This. Many times over. Excellent post.

Penarddun wrote...
But it isn't completey unrealistic to think Alistair would search out his sister. Because he has a strong sense of duty and wanting a family, so he grabs at whatever straws he can. It is naive, but again that's what makes Alistair's character. Even with all the terrible things that happened to him so far, the world hasn't "gotten to him" yet. That's exceptionally rare. It's also what allows for him to have the potentially most tragic endings in the entire game. He is the epitome of the tragic hero. A character like his, in other stories, would always die or be destroyed, because they are in such stark contrast to the rest of the world. That is his greatest strength and his greatest weakness.

Yep. But this part of his character, the strong belief in the good in the world. is what makes him so interesting to me. Especially the bolded aspect. He is a character that can evolve in every way, for the better or worse and never lose his credibility. You will always find people who call him a 'whiny baby' for throwing [.quote] a temper tantrum [/.quote] when you spare Loghain, but for me this reaction is an integral part of his characterization, his personality. (Even that he becomes a wandering drunk when he runs away makes sense.) Honestly, I would have been pissed, yes pissed, if he would caved in to the player's magical words and accepted Loghain as his Warden brother ....because THE ALMIGHTY PLAYER said so. Ugh. I love it that ther is no possible way for the player to get Alistair to agree, because it fits to his character. In the same way like you have (without mods) no possibility to stop him from sacrificing himself to save the life of the woman he loves.

However, TL:DR: These many aspects, facets and flaws of Alistair makes him to a character I still enjoy and love (to write about), even after two whole years. Guess this will never change. But there are worse fate than that.

[BevH]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

Your welcome!:happy:
It made me pretty sad too.!
Ah...now after watching that video, I don't think I'll ever get the achivement of seeing all possible endings.

I've seen the US/Alistair ending... twice. I was trying to get the US ending for my warden, not realizing that it would be impossible if Alistair was with me, sans a mod. I finally had to leave him at the gate, which made this particular battle with the archdemon very hard. Finally, I did get the mod, took Alistair with me... and I have to say, that while the ending was very sad, I had to chuckle seeing my mage knock him out!

[Merilsell]

tklivory wrote...

I MISS DA PROMPTIN'!  Let us begin anew in a new year, shall we?





Busy, Busy, Busy!

I have done it. Hold your breath, gasp in disbelief. I filled a prompt.  This prompt to be exact. And the result of it is to find here. Hehehehe :innocent:

[Penarddun]

Merilsell wrote...
I have done it. Hold your breath, gasp in disbelief. I filled a prompt.  This prompt to be exact. And the result of it is to find here. Hehehehe :innocent:

Wonderful prompt fill Meri!  Alistair certainly seems to have a busy morning planned, all of a sudden.

[danni2315]

So for my current playthrough, I'm planning on killing Connor in this walkthrough. I don't wanna go through the whole process of going to the Circle Tower & everything else, & cause I'm tired of doing the same thing over and over ._.

What is Alistair's reaction? Any major disapproval loss?

[theskymoves]

danni2315 wrote...

So for my current playthrough, I'm planning on killing Connor in this walkthrough. I don't wanna go through the whole process of going to the Circle Tower & everything else, & cause I'm tired of doing the same thing over and over ._.

What is Alistair's reaction? Any major disapproval loss?

He won't be happy about it. The amount of disapproval is dependent on your dialogue choices; I think I've gotten as small a hit as -7 and as much as a -40-ish. 

[tklivory]

theskymoves wrote...

danni2315 wrote...

So for my current playthrough, I'm planning on killing Connor in this walkthrough. I don't wanna go through the whole process of going to the Circle Tower & everything else, & cause I'm tired of doing the same thing over and over ._.

What is Alistair's reaction? Any major disapproval loss?

He won't be happy about it. The amount of disapproval is dependent on your dialogue choices; I think I've gotten as small a hit as -7 and as much as a -40-ish. 

Yup, tsm is exactly right.  Oddly enough, in some ways he disapproves more of killing Isolde with blood magic than Conner, although both options can can lead to monstrous losses of approval.  TBH, though, I feel that it is a more 'honest' and realistic action in the game than the "and we went 3 days to the Tower and 3 days back, ebullibody was all right.  Yay!' option of going to the Tower. <_<


Aaaaand some Alistair:

[theskymoves]

The down side of killing Connor is Alistair will yell at you.



On the other hand, Alistair will yell at you. 

Modifié par theskymoves, 10 janvier 2012 - 02:18 .

[tklivory]

theskymoves wrote...

On the other hand, Alistair will yell at you. 

Angry Alistair is hot Alistair...    

[danni2315]

Ah! Thanks! I ended up doing the ritual with Isolde...
Can't say I regret doing it after seeing his reaction...angry Alistair is A+.

[tklivory]

Okay, this isn't Alistair related, but it's hysterical.  I was searching in the toolset for Morrigan's line when the group encounters Sten in Lothering.  I found a dialogue file called zz_sten_cage, so i open it, and find this:



   

I love dev easter eggs!

[BevH]

tklivory wrote...

Okay, this isn't Alistair related, but it's hysterical.  I was searching in the toolset for Morrigan's line when the group encounters Sten in Lothering.  I found a dialogue file called zz_sten_cage, so i open it, and find this:



   

I love dev easter eggs!

Imagine if you actually got that line in the game... all game playing would stop for at least 5 minutes until the laughing stopped!

[Penarddun]

I didn't know you could pick the lock on Sten's cage!! Can Leliana do it, or does the Warden need to be a rogue?

[tklivory]

Penarddun wrote...

I didn't know you could pick the lock on Sten's cage!! Can Leliana do it, or does the Warden need to be a rogue?

It has to be someone with at least one lockpick skill or a really high cunning/dexterity mix.  Leliana can do it, though.

[theskymoves]

tklivory wrote...

Penarddun wrote...

I didn't know you could pick the lock on Sten's cage!! Can Leliana do it, or does the Warden need to be a rogue?

It has to be someone with at least one lockpick skill or a really high cunning/dexterity mix.  Leliana can do it, though.

Pick lock. Take Sten to see Grand Cleric in Lothering Chantry. Enjoy Grand Cleric's reaction. 

[insert gratuitous screen shot of Naked!Alistair in Sten's cage]

[BevH]

theskymoves wrote...

[insert gratuitous screen shot of Naked!Alistair in Sten's cage]

Well, it *is* Wacky Wednesday!

[Maria13]

I'm with Meri above his innocence is part of his enduring charm, but that doesn't make him stupid and doesn't make him totally malleable...