39010 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

CalJones wrote...
It was in an old thread many moons ago.
As far as Alistair goes, he does get disillusioned with the wardens if the Warden dies, but I don't think that would be the case if the Warden left (to defend Fereldan) and Duncan was still alive. After all, Alistair does think the Fade shines out of Duncan't bum (to borrow a line from Ines).

I don't think this developement can be prevented. Alistair is only 21, like most people his views will change as he gets older. I'm 31 now and I'd smack my own 21-y-o self because she was naive and stupid.

To be honest if he wouldn't grow and get disillusioned, I'd like him a lot less. The potential to grow and mature is one of the reasons I'm willing to overlook some things.

Modifié par klarabella, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[CalJones]

Trust me, I know - I'm 43 and I'd smack my 33 year old self around the head for some of the stupid things I've done.

My point, though, was that Alistair gets disillusioned in the game because all the wardens he knows are dead, and his only connection to them is the Warden him/herself. If the Warden then dies, then that's his last connection gone. The order is still there but he doesn't know anyone. It's not the same.

If the wardens hadn't all died at Ostagar, however, he might feel differently. Duncan, to be fair, was already close to his Calling so Al would still have to deal with his death fairly soon, but he doubtless had other friends in the wardens who'd be around for a while yet.

Modifié par CalJones, 06 septembre 2010 - 09:45 .

[Aeowyn]

Was this no matter what the outcome of Ostagar was going to be? Was he just going to leave Ferelden to its doom?

[nos_astra]

Aeowyn wrote...
Was this no matter what the outcome of Ostagar was going to be? Was he just going to leave Ferelden to its doom?

Duncan wouldn't have put up with the madness of stopping a Blight with a handful of Wardens, certainly not while being hunted down by Loghain. He would have asked and waited for reinforcements at least.

Modifié par klarabella, 06 septembre 2010 - 10:15 .

[Aeowyn]

Oh right, now I get it. Thought you meant that his original plans was to abandon Ferelden (before he knew he would be hunted down by Loghain).

[CalJones]

No, it's just a hypothetical situation, had he survived the battle.

[Maria13]

This is a very interesting convo, but isn't there one factor missing? Cailan.  Cailan's dead and Alistair might perceive that he is the heir to the Fereldan throne. On the one hand I can see Duncan using this to persuade him to leave... We have to go, you're an important figure now, you shouldn't be throwing your life away willy-nilly, let's go to Orlais, regroup and return and liberate Ferelden.  Of course, politically Alistair could then be used to broker the agreement with Orlais that Cailan was seeking to make, with less baggage because he is single...

On the other hand, perhaps Alistair would dig in his heels and say, this is my country, I'm the last Theirin, I have to stay and make a stand...

Alistair is thinking about this...

Modifié par Maria13, 06 septembre 2010 - 12:48 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

klarabella wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...
Was this no matter what the outcome of Ostagar was going to be? Was he just going to leave Ferelden to its doom?

Duncan wouldn't have put up with the madness of stopping a Blight with a handful of Wardens, certainly not while being hunted down by Loghain. He would have asked and waited for reinforcements at least.

Something I agree with, from a pure Warden perspective. The Wardens exist to stop blights and protect humanity from the Darkspawn threats. Technically, they have no borders and belong to no nation. Had there been the option, I would have left Ferelden to it's doom since everyone had their heads up their asses and were too busy fighting each other over petty crap when the very survival of life as they knew it was at stake.

[Aeowyn]

Isn't that something along the lines of what Riordan says. 200 wardens in Orlais who are preparing themselves for the Blight reaching the Orlesian border rather than helping Ferelden because they don't want to get involved in Ferelden's civil war.

[inclemency]

I always wondered how Alistair would fare as a Warden in the long run. I think he still had a romanticized view, as did I the first time I played DA:O. I remember feeling surprise when Riordan was talking at the Landsmeet about how anyone was welcome to be a Warden -- blood mages, carta thugs, etc etc. How would Alistair have handled standing shoulder-to-shoulder with blood mages using blood magic. Honestly...until he had more seasoning I don't think he would handle that very well. You see his reactions to blood magic throughout most of the game.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

inclemency wrote...

I always wondered how Alistair would fare as a Warden in the long run. I think he still had a romanticized view, as did I the first time I played DA:O. I remember feeling surprise when Riordan was talking at the Landsmeet about how anyone was welcome to be a Warden -- blood mages, carta thugs, etc etc. How would Alistair have handled standing shoulder-to-shoulder with blood mages using blood magic. Honestly...until he had more seasoning I don't think he would handle that very well. You see his reactions to blood magic throughout most of the game.

He might either leave the Wardens, or, depending on how he adapts, he could end up tolerating and accepting him. The key thing to remember is that Alistair is very young, had been raised in the Chantry to be a templar his whole life, and had only been a Warden 6 months. His reactions to things such as maleficar are really knee-jerk ingrained reactions from having such things pounded into his head since childhood. With time and adapting to the Warden ways, depending on how things go, those beliefs and reactions could just as well end up fading as he takes on new viewpoints, especially if he is hardened. Non-hardened, he might retain his unrealistic idealism about the world, and decide to leave the Wardens because such things remain offensive to him.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

MariSkep wrote...


To be fair, Redcliffe and the Tower wasn't so much petty as it was someone seriously screwing the pooch. I think Alim still would have fought to preserve what he could have of Fereldan.

Redcliffe was a classic example of petty. Eamon was poisoned by another noble, Loghain, over the petty politics and intrigues of the realm.

And by petty, I do mean that, in the face of a Blight, politics and grievances about neighbioring enemies and stupid kings, is very petty when you are facing the total and complete annihilation of all life in your country by an enemy that does not sign treaties, negotiate, and bargain. It would be hypothetically similar to say, the U.S. and Soviet Union carrying on the cold war, expnding resources and people fighting and backstabbing one another, when a large War of the Worlds type alien fleet is attacking the earth and wiping everyone out.

[Yankee23]

MariSkep wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

MariSkep wrote...


To be fair, Redcliffe and the Tower wasn't so much petty as it was someone seriously screwing the pooch. I think Alim still would have fought to preserve what he could have of Fereldan.

Redcliffe was a classic example of petty. Eamon was poisoned by another noble, Loghain, over the petty politics and intrigues of the realm.

And by petty, I do mean that, in the face of a Blight, politics and grievances about neighbioring enemies and stupid kings, is very petty when you are facing the total and complete annihilation of all life in your country by an enemy that does not sign treaties, negotiate, and bargain. It would be hypothetically similar to say, the U.S. and Soviet Union carrying on the cold war, expnding resources and people fighting and backstabbing one another, when a large War of the Worlds type alien fleet is attacking the earth and wiping everyone out.

But the whole abomination thing is way outside of what anyone would have seen coming.  No one's being petty when you arrive at Redcliffe, their just trying to survive against monsters not all unlike the darkspawn. They want and would join you if they could. They're hands are just tied at the moment.

Yes, is so far as the people are trying to survive the undead. However, the whole poisoning of Eamon is petty politics.

[Zjarcal]

inclemency wrote...

How would Alistair have handled standing shoulder-to-shoulder with blood mages using blood magic. 

He was pretty comfortable around my blood mage. 

[Yankee23]

Wow, this thread was really on a roll since last night's off topicness. Very interesting discussions. And I went to bed and missed most of it!

I finally have a derp for derp day!

[tuppence95]

Yankee23 wrote...

Wow, this thread was really on a roll since last night's off topicness. Very interesting discussions. And I went to bed and missed most of it!

I finally have a derp for derp day!
*snip*

Yes, it was so interesting that I just started posting and then backspacing over a couple of off-topic comments about Cailan & Loghain.  It's hard to resist!

But instead ... here's an Alistiar.

[tuppence95]

MariSkep wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

Wow, this thread was really on a roll since last night's off topicness. Very interesting discussions. And I went to bed and missed most of it!

I finally have a derp for derp day!
*snip*

Yes, it was so interesting that I just started posting and then backspacing over a couple of off-topic comments about Cailan & Loghain.  It's hard to resist!

But instead ... here's an Alistiar.
*snip*

What's that about to stab him in the eye?

That's part of my mage-warden's staff.

[errant_knight]

MariSkep wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

inclemency wrote...

How would Alistair have handled standing shoulder-to-shoulder with blood mages using blood magic. 

He was pretty comfortable around my blood mage. 

He may have hated Morrigan but he seemed perfectly willing to work alongside her after a little nudge so he is willing to work with apostates. I imagine he'd get over his disdain for Blood Magic sooner or later. Although it'd take a lot more than a little nudge. The Chantry's hatred of blood magic runs deep.

He'd do what he had to for duty as long as it didn't cross some lines, but he'd never get over it. It's not just the Chantry, either. Everyone outside the imperium hates and fears blood mages.

[inclemency]

I have so many things I want to do in the current (three) games I'm simultaneously playing. Get my male warden through awakening for the new DLC; take Loghein through Return to Ostagar; let Alistair and my PC get captured by Cauthrian so Sten and Dog can come to the rescue... Work, work, work, I dont' know how I'll get all this done by tomorrow! lol Oh, and I still don't know how my CE's story will end.

Derp day

Modifié par inclemency, 06 septembre 2010 - 03:35 .