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[LadyDamodred]

I am proud to bring the world Grumpistair:


Back to discussion...

I've discussed with people before, how in a lot of ways, and especially if Fiona is Alistair's mother, the WC ending is the one that makes the most sense.  And that's incredibly sad, to think his entire existance is there for the sole purpose of having his soul destroyed.

As far as dealing with things,I think if he has the Warden by his side after the game, he's fine.  I don't see him being excessively consumed with thoughts of regret or remorse in that case.  As for him thinking it's realizing his ultimate goals as a Warden, maybe. I think that gets down to the fact that if Alistair does not have the Warden as a love or best friend, his life has no value outside of the Wardens, at least to him.  If the Warden never cares about him, or if he loses the Warden, the only thing of value in his life is gone.

[Lanfaer01]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I've discussed with people before, how in a lot of ways, and especially if Fiona is Alistair's mother, the WC ending is the one that makes the most sense.  And that's incredibly sad, to think his entire existance is there for the sole purpose of having his soul destroyed.

As far as dealing with things,I think if he has the Warden by his side after the game, he's fine.  I don't see him being excessively consumed with thoughts of regret or remorse in that case.  As for him thinking it's realizing his ultimate goals as a Warden, maybe. I think that gets down to the fact that if Alistair does not have the Warden as a love or best friend, his life has no value outside of the Wardens, at least to him.  If the Warden never cares about him, or if he loses the Warden, the only thing of value in his life is gone.

I quite agree with you. It seems Alistair never felt at home or wanted accept within the Grey Wardens. Sometimes I wonder, if he even wishes to continue when everything he loves is gone.

edit: I've read somewhere - maybe even here - that the game was intended to end with a Grey Warden taking the final blow. The DR was brought in later. Thinking about this and Alistairs believes it makes even more sence for him to slay the archdemon

Modifié par Lanfaer01, 12 août 2010 - 02:08 .

[tuppence95]

 Alistair isn't always so certain about wanting to sacrifice himself.  This screenshot is from my Dalish&Zevran playthrough.  Alistair was hardened, there was no romance with him, and he was going to marry Anora.  When my warden asked him if he was sure, this is what he said.  



Here's my new Grumpy-inspired mage who is trying on armor he has no business wearing.  I kept him in the background to remain on topic.  

[LadyDamodred]

Lanfaer01 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I've discussed with people before, how in a lot of ways, and especially if Fiona is Alistair's mother, the WC ending is the one that makes the most sense.  And that's incredibly sad, to think his entire existance is there for the sole purpose of having his soul destroyed.

As far as dealing with things,I think if he has the Warden by his side after the game, he's fine.  I don't see him being excessively consumed with thoughts of regret or remorse in that case.  As for him thinking it's realizing his ultimate goals as a Warden, maybe. I think that gets down to the fact that if Alistair does not have the Warden as a love or best friend, his life has no value outside of the Wardens, at least to him.  If the Warden never cares about him, or if he loses the Warden, the only thing of value in his life is gone.

I quite agree with you. It seems Alistair never felt at home or wanted accept within the Grey Wardens. Sometimes I wonder, if he even wishes to continue when everything he loves is gone.

edit: I've read somewhere - maybe even here - that the game was intended to end with a Grey Warden taking the final blow. The DR was brought in later. Thinking about this and Alistairs believes it makes even more sence for him to slay the archdemon

I've heard that was originally intended for either Alistair or the Warden to die, but I cannot remember where I saw that.  Anyone have a clue?

tuppence:  Was your PC at 100 with him?  I know he's more sure if he's in love.  And even though he's unsure, he still comes to believe firmly that is it what he wants to do.  I think without love being the primary motivation driving his sacrifice, he's a little more aware of his mortality and what it means.

Some more Grumpistair:

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 12 août 2010 - 02:14 .

[tuppence95]

LadyDamodred wrote...
tuppence:  Was your PC at 100 with him?  I know he's more sure if he's in love.  And even though he's unsure, he still comes to believe firmly that is it what he wants to do.  I think without love being the primary motivation driving his sacrifice, he's a little more aware of his mortality and what it means.

I don't remember what her approval was, but I'm sure it wasn't even close to 100.  He didn't like her much.  I had her with Zev, and I could not even talk to Alistair, unless absolutely necessary.  That's the only way I can avoid turning on the romance with him.

[LadyDamodred]

tuppence95 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
tuppence:  Was your PC at 100 with him?  I know he's more sure if he's in love.  And even though he's unsure, he still comes to believe firmly that is it what he wants to do.  I think without love being the primary motivation driving his sacrifice, he's a little more aware of his mortality and what it means.

I don't remember what her approval was, but I'm sure it wasn't even close to 100.  He didn't like her much.  I had her with Zev, and I could not even talk to Alistair, unless absolutely necessary.  That's the only way I can avoid turning on the romance with him.

*nods*  Yeah, so even though he didn't like you, he still convinces himself this is what he wants to do, that it's the best way. 

[Schratty]

tuppence95 wrote...

 Alistair isn't always so certain about wanting to sacrifice himself.  This screenshot is from my Dalish&Zevran playthrough.  Alistair was hardened, there was no romance with him, and he was going to marry Anora.  When my warden asked him if he was sure, this is what he said.  

That sounds like the most depressing play through evah! I've only done the US once with Alistair as the sole ruler, (never done the WC...because I'm a big blubbery girl). And even though the DR doesn't "feel right", I can't help but be a selfish boob and try to salvage a happy ending of sorts...

Also, this somber discussion, coupled with pictures of Alistair smut, makes me feel like I'm watching the saddest. porno. ever.

Modifié par Schratty, 12 août 2010 - 02:32 .

[tuppence95]

 I guess there are no truly happy endings for Alistair and the female warden.  

Even the HFN who becomes his queen will eventually have to deal with the heir issue.  I know they decide it doesn't really  matter, but I can see Eamon pressuring him to dump her after a few childless years.  Unless a miracle happens.  Or unless Alistair is really hardened enough to stand up to Eamon urging him to do his duty.

And even what I had envisioned to be the happiest ending didn't turn out that way.  I loved when Alistair and my mage went off together to rebuild the Grey Wardens.  And then she showed up at Vigil's Keep, and he stood her up!  

[Addai]

Good Thursday, Alistarians.

I bring sexy fanart.

[LadyDamodred]

I'd like to think Eamon looks at my Queen Cousland and decides maybe trying to pressure Alistair into dumping her is not such a good idea.  You are rather terrifying at that point, especially after Awakening.  Also, you're the Savior of Ferelden.  Bad PR move to just shuffle her off to the side. 

[maxernst]

Maria13 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

"Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain."

In a lot of cases, dying like this might be far easier for him than living on to take a burden he doesn't want without anyone left to care about or for him.  Thought/opinions?

Absolutely.  In my FF he is very much of the belief that he is living out days to which he really has no right since he obtained them via the DR.  When you look at Alistair's character from a certain POV he is destined to die on the roof of Fort Drakon, everything in his life points to that.

I can see that.  In my own FF, his situation is slightly different because (non-canonical HNM/Alistair romance), he didn't do the DR himself.  He didn't even know how they both survived until the last chapter.  I think that the fact that the burden of making that decision and actually performing the ritual was shifted away from him might make it easier.  Thoughts?

On the other hand my PC has his own struggles with thoughts of duty.  And while he's happy with Alistair he has grave misgivings about the DR, and the uncomfortable feeling that he made a decision for Alistair that Alistair would never have agreed to, and concealed it for five years.  Yes, he would certainly have been able to persuade Alistair in-game, but since he never put him in that situation, he doesn't know.  Just as he doesn't know whether Alistair would really have left the Wardens if he had spared Loghain. 

Modifié par maxernst, 12 août 2010 - 02:45 .

[Addai]

tuppence95 wrote...

 I guess there are no truly happy endings for Alistair and the female warden.  

Even the HFN who becomes his queen will eventually have to deal with the heir issue.  I know they decide it doesn't really  matter, but I can see Eamon pressuring him to dump her after a few childless years.  Unless a miracle happens.  Or unless Alistair is really hardened enough to stand up to Eamon urging him to do his duty.

And even what I had envisioned to be the happiest ending didn't turn out that way.  I loved when Alistair and my mage went off together to rebuild the Grey Wardens.  And then she showed up at Vigil's Keep, and he stood her up!  

That's why I don't consider a princess consort ending "the happy ending" as you sometimes hear.  Not to mention that being monarch actually is an unglamorous muck.

I don't really picture any of my Wardens having a happy end.  The happiest they can hope to be is to have lived fairly well with their compromises and with each other, "for a time" to quote the ubiquitious epilogue phrase.

[Schratty]

I'm beginning to think that David Gaider is a sadist...or at lest very withholding. "What's that? You want a happy ending with this wonderful character you've grown so attached to? Well, you can't have one. Here's a sh-t sandwich instead. Eat it and enjoy." Haha

Modifié par Schratty, 12 août 2010 - 02:48 .

[Addai]

More art, appropriately named Happily Ever After.

[Addai]

Schratty wrote...

I'm beginning to think that David Gaider is a sadist...or at lest very withholding. "What's that? You want a happy ending with this wonderful character you've grown so attached to? Well, you can't have one. Here's a sh-t sandwich instead. Eat it and enjoy." Haha

He's a writer.    And in the George R.R. Martin vein.  That is GRRM's exact philosophy, which means I sometimes want to stick a butcher knife through my fat copies of SoIaF novels.  However, I also could not put them down, the same way we are still talking about Alistair, the Warden, the DR... still.

Happy endings are sweet, but a wee bit boring, you have to admit.  Not that I don't still take them.

[tuppence95]

Schratty wrote...

I'm beginning to think that David Gaider is a sadist...or at lest very withholding. "What's that? You want a happy ending with this wonderful character you've grown so attached to? Well, you can't have one. Here's a sh-t sandwich instead. Eat it and enjoy." Haha

Yes, I agree.  That's why I've grown to love fanfic so much, although some of it just prolongs the heartbreaking.  It's still very satisfying though.  

[tuppence95]

 Something on a less sad note ...

[Addai]

tuppence95 wrote...

 Something on a less sad note ...

Lamppost! 

Another elf getting her freak on...

[LadyDamodred]

Eh, my Wardens have happy endings. Mostly.  In the end.  Things might be just a teeny bit bumpy along the way.  *grins*

My Wardens who kidnap Alistair are perfectly content with their templar snuggle-bunny, either as Wardens or traveling adventurers.  My Queens enjoy being queen and all that political stuff, so they are happy there.  It's very much a "to each their own" kind of deal.



Can you tell what my new favorite morph is?

[Schratty]

@ Addai67: I suppose it's a little more akin to real life, where sometimes the things you want more than anything, you just can't have...Like cosmic forces are conspiring against you...or something. And while everything "working out in the end" is a bit on the bland side, I can't help but find the whole "and they lived happily ever after" bit reassuring. I appreciate what Gaider did with the Alistar/pc romance, but I still find it infuriating



@ tuppence95: I actually haven't read any DA FF. I used to find the most disturbing Harry Potter slash fics and read them for good laugh, but that's about the extent of my reading.



Ah! I see the Warden is helping Alistair...polish his sword...as it were, eh? ;P

[Lanfaer01]

Addai67 wrote...

More art, appropriately named Happily Ever After.

This remindes me of "The New Grey Warden Handbook" by NotLaura... I love this one

@ LadyDamodred  I'm not sure but I'm having an idea

[Gilsa]

Schratty wrote...

I'm beginning to think that David Gaider is a sadist...or at lest very withholding. "What's that? You want a happy ending with this wonderful character you've grown so attached to? Well, you can't have one. Here's a sh-t sandwich instead. Eat it and enjoy." Haha

There are two standard answers I've seen given when people complain about the Morrigan/Alistair romances:

1. We could have gone a lot darker had we wanted to, but we didn't.
2. If you want a happy ending, there's always Leliana and Zevran.

And here's a comment that DG made recently. Take it as you will.

David Gaider wrote ...

imported_beer wrote...

I am *never* going to play another bioware romance again. Unless it has been *verified* as pathos free by someone I trust.

Good luck with that. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Gilsa, 12 août 2010 - 03:29 .

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Eh, my Wardens have happy endings. Mostly.  In the end.  Things might be just a teeny bit bumpy along the way.  *grins*

I've read a few of your latest chapters- very good!  You've set up a plausible nightmare scenario.

My Wardens who kidnap Alistair are perfectly content with their templar snuggle-bunny, either as Wardens or traveling adventurers.  My Queens enjoy being queen and all that political stuff, so they are happy there.  It's very much a "to each their own" kind of deal.

Oh, generally I think their stories have happiness in them.  My chancellor is happy to be chancellor and is good at it.  I even have them pictured as being happy in Alistair's political marriage.  But no matter what, a Warden is going to die fairly young either in battle or from their own hand.  I don't see how that can't be melancholic, though it can also be a good death and thus sweet in its own way.

[Schratty]

Gilsa wrote...

Schratty wrote...

I'm beginning to think that David Gaider is a sadist...or at lest very withholding. "What's that? You want a happy ending with this wonderful character you've grown so attached to? Well, you can't have one. Here's a sh-t sandwich instead. Eat it and enjoy." Haha

There are two standard answers I've seen given when people complain about the Morrigan/Alistair romances:

1. We could have gone a lot darker had we wanted to, but we didn't.
2. If you want a happy ending, there's always Leliana and Zevran.

And here's a comment that DG made recently. Take it as you will.

David Gaider wrote ...

imported_beer wrote...

I am *never* going to play another bioware romance again. Unless it has been *verified* as pathos free by someone I trust.

Good luck with that. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Well, like I said, I appreciate the direction he took it, because it is so engrossing and yet so damn frustrating. I'm not yelling, "this is bullsh-t!" as I throw my copy of DA to the ground, cross my arms and pout. I'm just saying Alistair is such a wonderful character that I want the romance to be sunshine and kittens

[Khalara]

I'm still debating how I want my Lauren Cousland/Alistair story to end.. I'm writing two different versions..they end up ruling together (because she couldn't make her best friend do such a thing alone)  or they run away together and live happily ever after.. Either one will be a relatively happy ending...eventually.  I did the WC and US endings both, once.. I haven't been able to bring myself to do it again... . 

On a slightly less sad note.. How many of us went straight to Alistair for a very first playthrough romance?  And what were your reactions to it.. and the love scenes..?

For me.. He was the first romance.  I got halfway through and hubby had to spoil it for me by mentioning the prince thing.  I went straight to the boards to see if it was worth even romancing him because of the possible endings.  To my joy, it was... Then the first love scene... You'd probably never guess but, I couldn't hardly watch..  I was all blushing and covering the eyes (and peeking through), and blushing some more...:innocent:

Now here I am posting my lampost pics with the rest of em.  
How could anyone say "no" to this face..