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[sylvanaerie]

I meant how that choice is imported to the following games since it isn't actually included in the DA Keep.

 

It isn't as far as I can tell, it doesn't change his dialogue in any subsequent games.  It just makes some options open up in Origins itself.  Like if you want Alistair to rule with Anora and spare Loghain (your only way he will be able to rule and to keep Loghain alive after the Landsmeet).  Be advised this will pi$$ him off royally (bad pun intended  ) and ruin the friendship, even years later, but it will achieve something of your desired outcome.

 

I managed to spare Loghain in game only once by playing a Cousland with such a case of PTSD he couldn't kill a man in front of his child (identifying too much with Anora).  He was sorry to see Alistair go, but he just couldn't do to another person what had been done to him so recently.  And I wanted a 'drunk Alistair' import for DA2.

 

To harden him, choose the 'people are out for themselves' dialogue after talking to Goldanna (that's his 'hardening line') and you have to reinforce it in the camp in a second conversation by telling him--I forget the actual line there as it's been a couple years and I didn't always harden him--but paraphrased it's "think for yourself".  

 

Hardened Alistair makes for a better king who learns to govern well and will stand up to Eamon and/or Anora and keep her more ruthless nature in check.  Horrible on a personal level for both of them, but good for Ferelden, and as close to the outcome you want as you will be able to get.

[Qun00]

People say Alistair isn't king material, but that's the point of character development.

He starts off as a guy who hates responsability and goes as far as following the lead of a fresh recruit (the Warden) to finally embracing his destiny and trying to be the best ruler he can be.

You don't get that with softened Alistair, though. But it's as simple as not going that path.

[gottaloveme]

I think that Alistair has always known about duty and responsibility -

 

• hence his reaction if you choose the dialogue option of couldn't we just leave and not bother with the blight.
• finding Goldanna is partly a yearning for family but also one of responsibility to warn her of the blight threat
• not destroying the ashes
• helping Arl Eamon

Yes, Alistair's sense of duty and responsibility are all coloured with conflicting emotions etc but they are strong right from the start. The warden just helps him to balance this between every person on the face of Thedas and himself. I have always said that Alistair is my warden's moral compass.

[Qun00]

It isn't as far as I can tell, it doesn't change his dialogue in any subsequent games. It just makes some options open up in Origins itself. Like if you want Alistair to rule with Anora and spare Loghain (your only way he will be able to rule and to keep Loghain alive after the Landsmeet). Be advised this will pi$$ him off royally (bad pun intended ) and ruin the friendship, even years later, but it will achieve something of your desired outcome.

I managed to spare Loghain in game only once by playing a Cousland with such a case of PTSD he couldn't kill a man in front of his child (identifying too much with Anora). He was sorry to see Alistair go, but he just couldn't do to another person what had been done to him so recently. And I wanted a 'drunk Alistair' import for DA2.

To harden him, choose the 'people are out for themselves' dialogue after talking to Goldanna (that's his 'hardening line') and you have to reinforce it in the camp in a second conversation by telling him--I forget the actual line there as it's been a couple years and I didn't always harden him--but paraphrased it's "think for yourself".

Hardened Alistair makes for a better king who learns to govern well and will stand up to Eamon and/or Anora and keep her more ruthless nature in check. Horrible on a personal level for both of them, but good for Ferelden, and as close to the outcome you want as you will be able to get.

But what about things like the Warden becoming his mistress or the Dalish being given a land? Those can be mentioned during Alistair's cameo in DA2 and I don't understand how.

You don't get to select any of that in the Keep.

On another note, what do you think of Loghain's argument that Alistair would be vulnerable against political scheming? One can be a good ruler but it's also necessary to know how to play that game.

[sylvanaerie]

But what about things like the Warden becoming his mistress or the Dalish being given a land? Those can be mentioned during Alistair's cameo in DA2 and I don't understand how.

You don't get to select any of that in the Keep.

On another note, what do you think of Loghain's argument that Alistair would be vulnerable against political scheming? One can be a good ruler but it's also necessary to know how to play that game.

 

Which is one reason I leave Anora queen on most of my Origins' playthroughs.  She may be a conniving ******, but she knows how the game is played.  Even Celene admired her skills with the Great Game.  And if Alistair is king, my wardens stay as his wife/counselor.  If he is married to Anora, she teaches him about governing (which includes the Great Game I would suppose) and is surprised by his willingness and ability to learn quickly.

 

Mistress/Queen gets a couple lines during his king cameo in DA2 (could you imagine the uproar if they didn't include that?  ).  In fact, I find his reference to his mistress to be more affectionate/cute than his queen one, but that's just me I guess.  He also mentions his love in his GW cameo in both DA2 and Inquisition.  

Spoiler

Lots of players have complained he doesn't mention his queen/mistress in Inquisition, but seriously, that cameo doesn't lend itself to chat about personal lives.

 Neither of these take into account his being hardened or unhardened (except to get to be his mistress you had to harden him).  I don't know how him being hardened or not affects his kingly dialogue.  I never put unhardened Alistair on the throne as he hates it and is a crappy king who tries to shirk his duties every chance he gets.

Being Hawke is from Ferelden and has some connection to the previous game's events, there are more references to things the warden did, and dialogues pertaining to them, though I understand the import system wasn't very effective in keeping out the bugs.  Keep>import system IMO since it references only the things you put into it, though, as you point out Alistair unhardened is pretty much the same as hardened in his cameos since there isn't a reference to what the warden did to affect his personality.  Same with Leliana.

 

Guess it goes to show the warden didn't have as much of an impact in the long run as players thought, with circumstances over the course of a decade having more impact on shaping them to the people they become by Inquisition.  

 

I always tend to regard the ending slides as 'rumors you hear' or things that may have happened if the player never plays any other games.  Certainly Cullen's fate was very different from "He went batsh*t eating insane, slaughtered a bunch of apprentices and went running off into the night".  Or "Cullen takes over as Knight Commander when Gregoir retires and becomes a hard a$$ with a brutal 'rule' over the mages in the tower."

[Qun00]

I'm surprised at just how much Alistair's power as king depends on Loghain's death.

If you spare him: Anora is the one rallying the army in the final battle, Anora is the one who does your eulogy at the Warden's funeral, Anora is the one who delives the speech at the post ceremony if the hero lives.

It feels like Alistair turns into a figurehead. Screw that.

Which is one reason I leave Anora queen on most of my Origins' playthroughs. She may be a conniving ******, but she knows how the game is played. Even Celene admired her skills with the Great Game. And if Alistair is king, my wardens stay as his wife/counselor. If he is married to Anora, she teaches him about governing (which includes the Great Game I would suppose) and is surprised by his willingness and ability to learn quickly.

Mistress/Queen gets a couple lines during his king cameo in DA2 (could you imagine the uproar if they didn't include that? ). In fact, I find his reference to his mistress to be more affectionate/cute than his queen one, but that's just me I guess. He also mentions his love in his GW cameo in both DA2 and Inquisition.

Spoiler

Lots of players have complained he doesn't mention his queen/mistress in Inquisition, but seriously, that cameo doesn't lend itself to chat about personal lives.

Neither of these take into account his being hardened or unhardened (except to get to be his mistress you had to harden him). I don't know how him being hardened or not affects his kingly dialogue. I never put unhardened Alistair on the throne as he hates it and is a crappy king who tries to shirk his duties every chance he gets.
Being Hawke is from Ferelden and has some connection to the previous game's events, there are more references to things the warden did, and dialogues pertaining to them, though I understand the import system wasn't very effective in keeping out the bugs. Keep>import system IMO since it references only the things you put into it, though, as you point out Alistair unhardened is pretty much the same as hardened in his cameos since there isn't a reference to what the warden did to affect his personality. Same with Leliana.

Guess it goes to show the warden didn't have as much of an impact in the long run as players thought, with circumstances over the course of a decade having more impact on shaping them to the people they become by Inquisition.

I always tend to regard the ending slides as 'rumors you hear' or things that may have happened if the player never plays any other games. Certainly Cullen's fate was very different from "He went batsh*t eating insane, slaughtered a bunch of apprentices and went running off into the night". Or "Cullen takes over as Knight Commander when Gregoir retires and becomes a hard a$$ with a brutal 'rule' over the mages in the tower."

I just meant the political game in general, not The Orlesian one.

I actually wasn't talking about hardening Alistair anymore. Just the Keep as a whole.

[Xetykins]

I think that Alistair has always known about duty and responsibility -

• hence his reaction if you choose the dialogue option of couldn't we just leave and not bother with the blight.
• finding Goldanna is partly a yearning for family but also one of responsibility to warn her of the blight threat
• not destroying the ashes
• helping Arl Eamon

Yes, Alistair's sense of duty and responsibility are all coloured with conflicting emotions etc but they are strong right from the start. The warden just helps him to balance this between every person on the face of Thedas and himself. I have always said that Alistair is my warden's moral compass.

Preeeeetch it gurl!!

Xetykins approves +100000

Lots of people gets his motivations wrong based on the landsmeet and thinks he's not fit for kingship. Also based on him dumping everything on the Warden.

He does not need to play the game. He just needs someone who shows him how to spot it, like maybe Leliana or the noble Wardens. He's already got that core goodness, responsibility (if you don't betray him)fairness etc to be a well loved and competent monarch. Hardened King Alistair's epilogue shows that he actually schooled himself on the matter and has done really well. No need a conniving be-atch on the throne. And I would never ever dump him on that life with Anora when he feels so strongly about it. So he either rules alone or Anora.

Sadly, I played way too many Elves so Anora ends up on the throne more often than I would like and being a mistress is not something for me.

[Qun00]

I don't see why fans have such a hard time acknowledging any flaws in their favorite characters.

Alistair's fear of responsibility is a major plot point in his character arc. That's where he evolves as a person.

One who grows presumably was lacking something before.

[gottaloveme]

I don't see why fans have such a hard time acknowledging any flaws in their favorite characters.

Alistair's fear of responsibility is a major plot point in his character arc. That's where he evolves as a person.

One who grows presumably was lacking something before.

 

Going on from the obligation/duty/responsibility thing I would say that my warden (much as she loves her man) finds Al just a little too much on the uprightly moral side and wants to loosen him up a bit. Makes it hard sometimes to live up to expectations (altho' this is now getting a bit headcanon-y).

 

I agree with you about Anora. I guess it's a case of better the devil you know. Alistair as a figure-head - what a waste.

[Illegitimus]

I don't see why fans have such a hard time acknowledging any flaws in their favorite characters.

Alistair's fear of responsibility is a major plot point in his character arc. That's where he evolves as a person.

One who grows presumably was lacking something before.

 

Actually his fear is of taking a leadership role.  He can handle other kinds of responsibility well enough.  

[Qun00]

Yup, that's what I meant.

Anyway, what's the funniest Alistair moment for you guys? There are just so many.

One of these days I was trying out a new female character and in their first meeting I had her say "I'd prefer if you didn't think of me as a woman".

Alistair's response: " YES, SIR!!"

[gottaloveme]

I had to laugh after I gave Alistair his Feastday gift. He will actually play with it and this time when he did, he said "I am Mr Stealth".

[Kynare]

I just got to Act III on DA2 yesterday and came across King Alistair.

 

It was a little anti-climactic (that face?) but I strangely felt a little anxious when I saw his letter. I was like, no, I don't think I'm ready to see you again, not after what you did to my Warden! ;_; But it was just a corny cameo. And then I beat the game finally.

 

... I'm way behind on the times. At least now I only have one more game to catch up on.

[Qun00]

I've been wondering... what does Alistair mean by putting Anora in the tower?

Is it as in a jail cell? Imprisoned for life? Please say yes.

[gottaloveme]

I would say that yes, Anora is imprisoned in Fort Drakon until such time as Alistair can decided what to do with her. What happens to her after the darkspawn hit it, who knows? I don't think we actually hear any more about her, do we? (Not that I have anything against Anora

[Xetykins]

I've been wondering... what does Alistair mean by putting Anora in the tower?
Is it as in a jail cell? Imprisoned for life? Please say yes.

Hopefully. And I also hope he chopped her head later

[sylvanaerie]

Yup, that's what I meant.

Anyway, what's the funniest Alistair moment for you guys? There are just so many.

One of these days I was trying out a new female character and in their first meeting I had her say "I'd prefer if you didn't think of me as a woman".

Alistair's response: " YES, SIR!!"

 

When Alistair asks a female warden "Have you ever licked a lamppost in winter?"  The emphasis on "you" really sells that line.

[Akrabra]

Anyway, what's the funniest Alistair moment for you guys? There are just so many.

"You're telling me. I was banished to the kitchen to scour the pots more times than I can count. And that’s a lot; I can count pretty high."

 

I think it goes something like that, i love that line. There are just so many to choose from though. 

[Illegitimus]

I've been wondering... what does Alistair mean by putting Anora in the tower?

Is it as in a jail cell? Imprisoned for life? Please say yes.

 

In England royal prisoners were kept in Tower of London.  It won't necessarily be forever.  She'll be detained on his pleasure and she'll almost certainly outlive him.  

[Xetykins]

In England royal prisoners were kept in Tower of London. It won't necessarily be forever. She'll be detained on his pleasure and she'll almost certainly outlive him.

I've been to the Tower of London and judging by the amount of torture gadgets on their dungeons, outliving him would be highly unlikely. Royal prisoner or not.

[Xetykins]

I just think if Alistair ruled alone and the HoF was dead, then he would do what's best for Ferelden.

Yeah sadly this is true. BUT my hof is going to find that cure if she has to personally rip it off from the next archdemon's arse with her bare hands!!



Edit: ewww

[Qun00]

Alistair seems the type that would actually release her sooner rather than later and let Anora take over..... if he knew there was no way to cure himself. I never got the feeling he cared about a Divine Right of the Theirin bloodline or anything... that's Eamon's thing.
 
 
Personally, I like them married, but that's beside the point. I just think if Alistair ruled alone and the HoF was dead, then he would do what's best for Ferelden.

Eamon is blinded by tradition.

Calling for the landsmeet is unnecessary when there already is someone ruling Ferelden in Caillan's place. Anora isn't a great person but she was doing the job just fine.

[gottaloveme]

Lots of discussion here http://dragonage.wik...pened_to_Anora?on Anora post-blight. There are some folks out there (Xetykins ) who  are not disposed to be charitable to the bitchmonarchfromhell (not me tho' - got nothing against Anora) .

 

In England there were often imprisonments more akin to house arrest. Stick someone in a remote manor or castle or even a manor right there in London and have them watched over. That is my headcanon for Anora. After all she is still Alistair's sister-in-law and after loppin' off Loghain's head in the Landsmeet (adrenaline + emotion = headless Loghain) he would be a lot calmer when considering Anora's fate. Alistair is nobody's fool, but I think his sense of duty towards Cailan's widow would pull towards mercy. Therefore, comfortable house arrest.

 

This is what I like to see for the Alistair Gush Thread - seeing as I can't play at the moment - stupid Origin/EA