Guest_StreetMagic_*
Are we absolutely sure they're dead though?
Soooo you like Loghain and Hawke. Who did you kill?
Loghain, of course.. I might see his value, but I love Hawke. All variations actually.
As for being dead, I don't know... maybe Hawke could pull through. They showed their strength in the Fade before.
Are we absolutely sure they're dead though?
Spoiler tagging it as this is an Origins thread and some may not have played that yet.
Wouldn't Hawke just be trapped in the fade forever? If i had to choose between Alistair and Hawke, then Hawke would go every damn time. Loghain sacrifice makes sense, but the Wardens without a leader in Orlais and the infighting in Andersfel makes it hard to predict the outcome of keeping them around.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Interesting reasoning. Hadn't thought about it. I figure that Warden leadership could be common.. I mean, the whole group is about commitment. Someone would rise to the occasion.
That's one thing that interests me about DAI though... what happens to Hawke after that.
Spoiler
Spoiler tagging it as this is an Origins thread and some may not have played that yet.
Guest_Chiara Fan_*
On a sidenote, it's funny how people love not being the Herald in DAI, but love embracing the Warden role in DAO. To me, they're both the same thing... It's about eschewing mythmaking.
I'm sorry, but I think a lot of people reject the Herald title but embrace the Warden title because they're both obtained differently.
Notice that most DAI players don't mind being the Inquisitor (rooting out corruption, resolving civil wars, restoring peace), but many don't like being the Herald.
I think it's because the title of Inquisitor is something you earned (since you've gone around solving problems, saved and recruited either the mages or Templars, sealed the Breach and stared down an ancient magister with what appears to be an Archdemon by the time you're named Inquisitor), while "Herald" is just a title given to you by people who don't know how you survived the Breach or got the Anchor on your hand, and have just named you the messenger of their gods to assuage their own fears and validate their own religious beliefs--even if you're not religious, or human, or even have your own gods. *grumble grumble*
Likewise, the Warden can't be compared to the Herald because it's a title you've earned, not a title given to you. You survive a life-threatening ordeal in your origin, and Duncan recognizes your prowess and conscripts you into the Grey Wardens for your merit. Also, as a Warden you are doing things to earn your renown, like fighting darkspawn, solving problems, settling succession crisis's and civil wars (for Orzammar and Ferelden), and raising an army against a Blight (and saving the world, or at least Ferelden).
I think people embrace being a Grey Warden because it's what you do, while they reject being the Herald because it's what you're called (and incorrectly, at that).
Guest_Chiara Fan_*
As for who gets left behind in the Fade, I don't think they're dead or trapped forever. The caption when you choose says "X may die," and there are tons of unsealed rifts all over the place. I think they'll be back.
As for Alistair regarding Loghain, I'm with Alistair. Loghain's a backstabbing traitor and villain who left the king to die, pinned the blame on you, hunted you two like animals, and prevented you from doing your job of stopping the Blight by outlawing Grey Wardens. Even if it wasn't just that, he himself allowed the Blight to nearly swallow Ferelden by inciting and prolonging a civil war (to protect his own power) instead of dealing with the actual darkspawn threat at his door.
Even if I could trust him not to betray me the way he betrayed Maric and Cailan (which I don't), I'm not about to forgive him trying to kill me by sparing his life. "Hey, you've spent over year trying to kill me, so now that the tables are flipped I'll totally spare you."
Also, Grey Wardens are supposed to stop the Blight, and Loghain has proven immensely incompetent at it. "Hey, you've spent over a year willfully turning a blind eye to the darkspawn and let the Blight swallow half of Ferelden, now we'll reward your darkspawn incompetence by letting you join the Grey Wardens (which you've tried to kill instead of the darkspawn), who's job it is to stop them. Considering your track record of betraying your allies and ignoring advice from people who know better, I'm sure you'll do a better job this time than your did at Ostagar and your entire year as regent--I'm sorry, 'general of Anora's armies.'"
So, yeah. I have no problem with Alistair not approving of sparing Loghain, because I agree with him and then some.
Loghain is a great character and all, but Alistair's friendship hinges so much on his death that I can't let him live.
For instance, Alistair only delives the speech during the hero's funeral if Loghain is dead.
And whether he trusts the Warden's advice as chancellor or not also depends on that decision.
“As the new chancellor, the former Grey Warden is seen often at court--at least for a time. With the king seldom seen and disinclined to offer the chancellor his support, Queen Anora has the most sway over the running of the kingdom and arguments with her chancellor generally end in her victory. The hero of Ferelden continues to enjoy great popularity in Ferelden, however, and maintains considerable political influence.”
So it's clear that while he still respects the Warden, you're not BFFs anymore.
Spoiler
Yea, it's that smug arrogance that does Loghain in for me in Origins. A year of dealing incompetently with the darkspawn, the wardens, the regency and he has the nerve to act like I p*ssed in his cheerios? Off with his head! I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with his BS.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'm sorry, but I think a lot of people reject the Herald title but embrace the Warden title because they're both obtained differently.
Notice that most DAI players don't mind being the Inquisitor (rooting out corruption, resolving civil wars, restoring peace), but many don't like being the Herald.
I wouldn't mind being an Inquisitor either. Except you don't do much of that anyways. And either way, you don't get the job without being perceived as Herald first. It requires no job interview or actually being an ideal candidate. Or even a "candidate", period. lol. You just meddle your way into the Ferelden/Orlesian/Chantry world and start dictating how everyone should live -- because of the Herald thing first.
By embracing the Inquisitor role later, you're still embracing the myth around you... even when you deny being the Herald. It says that your character still somehow believes in their own bullshit, and that they're special enough to just control everyone. I can almost respect someone who believes they're the Herald instead.. at least it gives some weight to their delusion. The non believer just thinks they deserve it "just because". It's ego in that case. And for me, it's difficult to roleplay with. Unless I just want to play characters who have a lot of pride. But where's the flexibility in that?
And what if I want to be a "good" character? It's hard to be good with that amount of pride. I think this is sort of what Cassandra is troubled about so much. She's making a leap of faith, but she's always hinting that this could be a terrible mistake.. or it's the blind leading the blind.
I wouldn't mind being an Inquisitor either. Except you don't do much of that anyways. And either way, you don't get the job without being perceived as Herald first. It requires no job interview or actually being an ideal candidate.
Yeah. All it requires is
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Yeah. All it requires is
SpoilerAnyone could do that.
Ballsy move, but I'm not sure what it has to do with "inquisiting". Where's the political intrigue in an avalanche
That said, sometimes the game seems to be telling me I should dislike it too (like my quote from Cass above. Sera is another, I think). And I can tell characters like Vivienne "No one should have this power".
I was surprised to see golems and werewolves defending Denerim during the Darkspawn Chronicles.
Alistair never struck me as a cold pragmatist.
Morrigan was calling the shots.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Morrigan was calling the shots.
Funnily, he's also romancing Leli in Chronicles...
But I could still see that. Still being manipulated by Morrigan.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I still don't see this romancing Leli in Darkspawn chronicles. Where do you see this? Maybe I have selective memory heh
It's just a silly codex entry.
Leliana was a lay sister of the Chantry. In a vision, the Maker urged her to leave the cloister and battle the Blight. Her skill at archery, evidence of a surprising past, brought her to the attention of the Grey Warden named Alistair. She soon joined him as an ally--and, rumor says, a lover.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
He probably doesn't love her. He kept her in the same basic Chantry robes, since Lothering. Even to fight an archdemon.
Lol! Maybe its their "thing"? Who knows?He probably doesn't love her. He kept her in the same basic Chantry robes, since Lothering. Even to fight an archdemon.
I personally don't like hardening Alistair.
I don't see it as "raising his self-esteem" or "giving him that little push to believe in himself," I see it as crushing his spirit. You're kicking him while he's at his lowest point from being rejected by the last family he thinks he has. Rather than reassuring him that you're his friend or that people care about him, you're basically confirming his fears that no one will ever love him or care about him because they're all out for themselves (including you), so he should just be out for himself too. I hated that!
First time that i hardened Alistair i believed that was a way to create a new tyrant,kinda like his ancestor (what was his name Arland?)
First time that i hardened Alistair i believed that was a way to create a new tyrant,kinda like his ancestor (what was his name Arland?)
Guest_StreetMagic_*
People who are in favor of softening are those who see him mainly as a love interest.
I look at Alistair as a character.
To be fair, it can easily happen on accident.. in a sincere way. After meeting Goldana, it's pretty natural for some to just say "Hey, I'm here.. people, still care about you."
Not me, but...
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