39006 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

I honestly haven't noticed any changes beyond being more willing to become king.

He doesn't lose any of his alistairness.

[Aren]

I don't know who they are but I like the idea very much. Oh my god, the pre-suicide angsty conversation (and activities) to be had!!

They are the two GW who killed the 2nd AD

[Aren]

 

 

As for Alistair regarding Loghain, I'm with Alistair. Loghain's a backstabbing traitor and villain who left the king to die, pinned the blame on you, hunted you two like animals, and prevented you from doing your job of stopping the Blight by outlawing Grey Wardens. Even if it wasn't just that, he himself allowed the Blight to nearly swallow Ferelden by inciting and prolonging a civil war (to protect his own power) instead of dealing with the actual darkspawn threat at his door.

 

Even if I could trust him not to betray me the way he betrayed Maric and Cailan (which I don't), I'm not about to forgive him trying to kill me by sparing his life. "Hey, you've spent over year trying to kill me, so now that the tables are flipped I'll totally spare you."

 

Also, Grey Wardens are supposed to stop the Blight, and Loghain has proven immensely incompetent at it. "Hey, you've spent over a year willfully turning a blind eye to the darkspawn and let the Blight swallow half of Ferelden, now we'll reward your darkspawn incompetence by letting you join the Grey Wardens (which you've tried to kill instead of the darkspawn), who's job it is to stop them. Considering your track record of betraying your allies and ignoring advice from people who know better, I'm sure you'll do a better job this time than your did at Ostagar and your entire year as regent--I'm sorry, 'general of Anora's armies.'"

 

So, yeah. I have no problem with Alistair not approving of sparing Loghain, because I agree with him and then some.

• Cailan killed himself,Loghain suggested to him to remain with him,he refused,he was supposed to sacrifice the rest of the army for one man?A king who risk his life in the front line imho is a moron,it doesn't make sense,if he die the nation fall in despair.
• He doesn't know the importance of the GW(they keep continue to hide their secrets),to him they are still the traitor's exiled by King Arland,the new GW have in their party,a bastard prince,an Orlesian spy,a Qunari,i don't blame him for being paranoid.
• I believe that there were many lords,ready to take the throne after Cailan death,Loghain was just one of them,the civil war was for my perspective inevitable,Eamon and Tegan would have probably never accepted Anora or an other lord.
• When he betrayed Cailan and Maric exactly?He saved Maric ass,many times as far as i'm concerned.
• The GW never shared they importance of their presence too Loghain at Ostagar,he was the general and he was unaware of the GW characteristics,Duncan and the others GW as i have come to understand were not under his control,if Loghain failed at Ostagar,the GW leaded by Duncan failed as well.
• He did it in my game he killed the AD,(unlike the super senior expert Riordan)

So no i'm not with AListair not by a miles,i saw only a blind man who placed vengeance over the Blight

Yes i belong to the club Redemption and justice>vengeance,also i don't spare that monster of the AD.

I also find hypocritical the whole

Loghain deserve to die he is a villain

The AD needs to live even if caused massive destruction because i don't want to die or let Alistair die,as if it was Loghain who started the blight and not the Old god (i don't care tainted or not he is guilty  like the others darkspawn to my eyes,there is no salvation in my game only death and justice.).

[Aren]

Ah AListair.....that guy is weird

[gottaloveme]

Hardened Alistair

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Qun00]

I made Alistair king today, and after the landsmeet was concluded he asked the Warden to help him during his rule.

The dialogue options I picked gave me -6 disapproval. SIX. But why?

All I said was "And here I thought you'd be speechless" and "You don't need me, Alistair" when his request was made.

Which line was the problem, the second one? I thought it would be understood as "You can do it, bro."

[Qun00]

I just don't see it as disrespectful towards Alistair.

Doesn't Leliana benefit from the softening in Inquisition?

[Illegitimus]

I just don't see it as disrespectful towards Alistair.

Doesn't Leliana benefit from the softening in Inquisition?

 

She does.  But then again that's what she tried to choose to be when uninfluenced by others.  There's a reason why Justinia's shade apologizes to Leliana for using her trust and loyalty so.  She's both happier and more effective as a softened spymaster for the Inquisition.  Alistair really wants to be the Gray Warden class clown. Letting Anora rule and remaining a Gray Warden is the only really happy ending for him.  

 

Oh sure, that must be it.

 

It can't be that we like Alistair as the character he is, not a piece of clay that we can mold and hardened into a shape we like better. 

 

 

Then you've fallen for his lies and self-deceit.

 

I have no interest letting a viper into my camp because it claims its previous victims deserved the bite.

 

(Of course he's going to claim that he's completely innocent 

 

Well, he doesn't do that.  

[roselavellan]

I've played through both hardened and unhardened Alistair, and I thought he seemed much happier hardened. He's willing to identify what he wants, for one, as opposed to being unsure about everything, and himself in particular . He's definitely more self-confident. I could be wrong, of course, but all that seems to me to indicate he is happier hardened.

So now I always harden him, regardless of whether he is going to be king or not. Even if the dialogue options for hardening seem harsh, this is something I do metagame because to me the alternative seems cruel in the long run.

[Aren]

 

"Yes, I betrayed Cailan and destroyed the Grey Wardens because I think I can run the country and stop the Blight better than they can, now bow before me!" Granted, he all but says it anyway, but still...)

 

And I read The Stolen Throne and I remember the part where Flemeth warned Maric that Loghain would betray him, "Each time worse than the last." Sure enough, he lies to Maric near the end of the book, and betrays Marci's son at the start of DAO. Some people read that book and feel so sorry for Logahin or feel he's so much more noble and honest than they thought. Not me. I just read it and thought, "Oh, so he's always been a dishonest, back-stabbing liar who betrays his friends and destroys his enemies. Good to know!"

 

Destroyed the GW?

If you are referring to Duncan and the other 3 dead GW at Ostagar ,

they were not under his authority,they decided (mainly Duncan) to fight in the front line to appease Cailan

 (the old tales of the King who fight alongside the GW,very romantic...) instead to analyze the numbers of Darkspawns with their GW powers to understand that was a battle already lost before to even began,like Solas confirmed in DAI,oh look Solas agreed with Loghain.

Alistair accusation of Duncan being killed by Loghain was leaded by emotion not good sense

 

Where he betray Cailan exactly?You're seeing things from  a broken glass

When he told to him to remain behind instead to risk his life for glory with daddy's sword?

Or when he saw that signal half an hour of late?

Speaking of Flemeth

Have Maric been there at the Landsmeet ..... 

No he was taken away by Flemeth/Yavana,the same Flemeth who told to Maric that Loghain was the danger for him,and see how it was ended for poor Maric,to not have remained at the side of Loghain,

sold to a crazy witch for a stupid Dragon,imprisoned and tortured and then destroyed by a Magister,yes Flemeth was right Loghain was the danger for him,

nope i believe that Flemeth deal, finished him.

[Kernel_Error]

 

Destroyed the GW?

If you are referring to Duncan and the other 3 dead GW at Ostagar ,

they were not under his authority,they decided (mainly Duncan) to fight in the front line to appease Cailan

 (the old tales of the King who fight alongside the GW,very romantic...) instead to analyze the numbers of Darkspawns with their GW powers to understand that was a battle already lost before to even began,like Solas confirmed in DAI,oh look Solas agreed with Loghain.

Alistair accusation of Duncan being killed by Loghain was leaded by emotion not good sense

 

 

From my point of view, may be Duncan and the wardens weren't under the authority of Loghain, but what I understood from the game is they were working together and it was a coordinated tactic between the wardens and the army that's why  Cailan, Loghain, someone from the Chantry, a Mage and the warden were in the meeting before the battle, they were setting the action plan. To have a chance they needed Loghain army, because without it it was a suicide mision. If Loghain was the general who had planned the battle, although he left to save his men, this defeat was his failure.

 

 

About Solas, I remember him talking about the two versions of Ostagar's battle, the two wardens ligthing the beacon meanwhile they were betrayed, and a general retrieving his men and saving them from a lost battle. He says what he sees in the fade are emotions from the people who where there and that's why there is this two point of views, but he doesn't saw the real battle. Does he says something more about this? Really I don't remember it

 

Alistair is not flawless, of course he is influenced by his emotions, as many people would be, and we can agree or not, but also Loghain is obssesed and not seeing the big picture, and with his actions (or inactions) he is dooming his country. Really I like the fact that all the events in the games can be interpreted from differents points of view, and it's not black and white.

 

I agree about Cailan that he risked too much thanks to his foolish idea of being a hero, if he had heard Loghain...may be he would be alive or not . It's kind of ironic that if  Alistair is finally the king, after the blight he is the hero Cailan wanted to be.

[Xetykins]

Never ever had a world state that Loghain lives. I stand by that decision.

[Akrabra]

Never ever had a world state that Loghain lives. I stand by that decision.

I have one where i played male noble and married Anora. I actually had Alistair executed instead of beeing made drunk. I had to skip all of the conversation because it was way to hard to watch. I will never be doing it again. 

[Kynare]

To be fair, it can easily happen on accident.. in a sincere way. After meeting Goldana, it's pretty natural for some to just say "Hey, I'm here.. people, still care about you."

 

Not me, but...  

 

That was my knee-jerk response in the moment during my first playthrough actually. I only chose the hardening line on a more aggressive playthrough, also after knowing the affect it had in the story.

 

In regards to Chiara Fan's post...

 

"Everyone is out for themselves." (hardening response choice)

I don't see that as spirit-crushing. I see it as honesty, and that can be equally as inspiring as words of support. I don't necessarily believe it in my every-day life, but in the Dragon Age world, it seems safe to make that assumption unless someone proves otherwise, especially when you're literally putting your life on the line for every single person who asks you to do something.

 

Luckily we're not seeing the moments where the Warden actually needs to stop questing to make time for eating, sleeping and taking care of themselves. They'd probably be pulling their hair out. ._.

[cJohnOne]

I use to think that to harden Alistair would ruin his character but now I like doing the stuff with Alistair that you get with Hardening.  Anyways, I like Alistair as he is without the Hardening.

[Xetykins]

First talk at camp... Call him a Slaver.

For some really weird reason, I suddenly pictured Oghren saying "Slap my ass and call me Sally". Don't know why.


So... what does Loghain say?

[gottaloveme]

Can we please not make this another Loghain thread? There are enough of those already. I understand the whole Alistair/Loghain 'I'll kill you' - 'not if I kill you first' thing, but Loghain always seems to take over and Adorkable gets left behind.

[theskymoves]

Can we please not make this another Loghain thread? There are enough of those already. I understand the whole Alistair/Loghain 'I'll kill you' - 'not if I kill you first' thing, but Loghain always seems to take over and Adorkable gets left behind.

 

You are right, of course, and I've removed my post, with apologies for the off topic content.