39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Yaroub]

Bah, bro Alistair is the most fun and happy one, girls confuse him .

[sylvanaerie]

Don't get me wrong, I was not wondering "why" the king could not marry a noble (it seems clear that he cannot really choose whoever he wants), I was asking how in the game he was actually refusing her and what was his explanation, what were the words he was saying, did he seem dissapointed or confused, etc... and theskymoves answered to that, thank you

 

@Illegitimus: so for you he seems not to show feelings because he talks to a total stranger? so how do you explain that he seems a lot more happy and doesn't hide it  when he talks about her as his mistress (even if it's supposed to be a secret, if the queen Anora knows about it there could be trouble, so it seems awkward to talk about that openly in front of strangers), or why he says "this belongs to the love of my life" when you meet him as a warden? because Hawke's a total stranger to him as well when he is a warden.

 

My guess is that, as seen above, what he says about the warden-queen should apply to "Alistair married the romanced warden" and "Alistair married the un-romanced warden". It's the same line even if in your previous save he loved her or not, so the sentence had to be quite neutral.

I guess.

 

This.  They had to include both scenarios.  If you, the player, knows that Alistair loves his wife, then it attaches a whole new emphasis to it as being a playful reference,  If Alistair is neutral or friendly, it can be read a bit differently with possibly a teasing tone, or a less affectionate one, depending on how the player interprets it.

 

Even his mistress line is obscure.  Only a player should know who 'you know who' is that Teagan is referring to.

 

King Alistair is less open by necessity to demonstrations of affection than warden Alistair who can afford to be a bit more gushy about his affections to Hawke.   

[gottaloveme]

 

 My Surana flirted shamelessly with him

 

 

Do I seem to remember a banner that said Bann Teagan for King?

[gottaloveme]

Any Non-F!HN Warden: Alistair will be king, and I'll rule beside him.

Alistair: I don't think that would work. The Landsmeet barely wants to accept me. They'll never accept a queen who isn't from a noble family.

 

It's not up to him, it's up to the Landsmeet. (Other people making life choices for Alistair... it happens a lot. )

 

This.

 

Plus - (at least among the gen pub) there was a lot of murmuring about Anora not being noble, even tho' she is Queen. Talk to Bodahn. And also they are trying to stabilise Ferelden after the Blight and civil war. Alistair understands this.

[Vanalia]

Yes, Loghain was not born noble and his wife was not either, so Anora is not really a noble then... or she became one but only recently.

 

 

But to be Alistair's mistress, the warden absolutly needs to be in a romance with him, right? and he says that only when the warden dicided to be his mistress (I mean, it cannot be another woman).

[Xetykins]

 
But to be Alistair's mistress, the warden absolutly needs to be in a romance with him, right? and he says that only when the warden dicided to be his mistress (I mean, it cannot be another woman).

Ofc you can't be a mistress if you are not in romance with him. You can't possibly be a mistress if there's absolutely nothing going on :-)

Unless ofc if Alistair suddenly decide to build a harem *zomg* If that happens I'd be feeding his Alistairhood to the darkspawn!

[Darkly Tranquil]

Yes, Loghain was not born noble and his wife was not either, so Anora is not really a noble then... or she became one but only recently.

The MacTir family was ennobled when King Maric made Loghain Teryn of Gwaren after the rebellion. Anora was born after that point, and is thus noble by birth. The issue many of the nobles have is that the MacTir's are "new blood" (recently raised from commoner to noble), rather than "old blood" (families that have been nobles for centuries), and so they look down on them for not being as noble as they are. Give it a few centuries, and the MacTir's would likely be regarded as being as noble as anyone else.

[gottaloveme]

The MacTir family was ennobled when King Maric made Loghain Teryn of Gwaren after the rebellion. Anora was born after that point, and is thus noble by birth. The issue many of the nobles have is that the MacTir's are "new blood" (recently raised from commoner to noble), rather than "old blood" (families that have been nobles for centuries), and so they look down on them for not being as noble as they are. Give it a few centuries, and the MacTir's would likely be regarded as being as noble as anyone else.

 

It isn't about nobility conferred. It's about noble blood lines. Alistair has royal blood and Anora does not. It's a system with flaws but it's theirs.

[Qun00]

A bastard son taking the throne... has that ever happened in real life?

[Darkly Tranquil]

A bastard son taking the throne... has that ever happened in real life?

Here are a few notable examples: (I didn't write this, I just found it here)

Bernard of Italy, illegitimate son of Pepin of Italy (himself a legitimate son of Charlemagne), became king of the Lombards in 810.

Edward the Martyr, briefly king of England from 975 to 978, was probably illegitimate; his father Edgar I acknowledged his younger son Æthelred as the only rightful heir (but Edgar's opinion lost most of its strength when he died).

Vladimir the Great became "Knyaz" of Kiev in 978, the title deriving from a Proto-Germanic word meaning "king". He was a natural son of Sviatoslav I, a previous ruler of the Kiev Rus'.

João I of Portugal was an illegitimate son of a previous king (Peter I) and conquered the throne after a civil war triggered by a lack of legitimate male heir.

Atahualpa was "illegitimate" son of Huayna Capac and still became Sapa Inca, roughly translated as "Emperor". The concept of illegitimacy is not the same as in contemporary Europe; the Inca had a primary wife (formally said to be his "sister"), whose children were heirs, and many secondary wives, who could be chosen for political reasons (hence not exactly "concubines" dedicated to the ruler's concupiscence). Atahualpa was son of one such secondary wife.

Paul I of Russia was most probably the son of Sergei Saltykov, and not of Peter III, husband of his mother Catherine (who became Catherine II). Paul succeeded Catherine (and was murdered 5 years later).

[Qun00]

Surprising.

It makes you wonder why Jon Snow is constantly mocked in the world of Game of Thrones.

I suppose bastard children are more like a last resort in case there isn't anyone else to make sure that bloodline stays in power.

[sylvanaerie]

Oh. I didn't know you can clear your name... but that still doesn't really fix how you can't reclaim your father's throne, nor really gain either one even though you crown two different sovereigns for two different kingdoms. 

 

I know it's silly, but I just don't see any good story reason not to be able to reclaim your father's throne.

 

I can understand an elf or mage or even dwarf not being able to rule Ferelden, because the game makes it clear there's too much racism for them to agree to a mage or non-human on the throne. But for Orzammar, you were second in line for the throne after your older brother until your older brother was murdered and you were framed for it. You came home to find your father dead and Orzammar locked in a succession crisis since neither candidate has universal appeal: Bhelen is Endrin's son and heir but a ruthless criminal, while Harrowmont is not Endrin's son or heir but much more likable. It seems to me that clearing your name should lift your exile and put you right back on the succession list. And since you're Endrin's child and heir like Bhelen, plus older and better-liked like Harrowmont, there's really no reason you should have any problems convincing the deysers (and heck, even Harrowmont!) to back you.

 

I mean, they let the Human Noble marry the Ferelden sovereign and take the throne and try for heirs even though Grey Wardens aren't technically supposed to get involved with politics, marry or have families. With King Alistair it's even worse since he's a Grey Warden who took the throne and married another Grey Warden, who is known to be practically infertile with him (since two Grey Wardens very rarely produce a child) and thus won't be able to provide an heir, yet they're allowed to .

 

I just don't see why the game breaks the rules of its own universe to let the Human Noble take Ferelden's throne, but doesn't follow the rules of its own universe to allow the Dwarf Noble to take Orzammar's throne, or any throne. 

 

(I'm sorry I sound like a whiner. I hear what you're saying about the Paragon thing too, but I don't know... it just seems like "Queen" has a better ring to it than "Paragon." I mean, imagine trying to sell someone on this game. "Hey, should I play the Human Noble?" "Yeah, it's the one origin where you get to become King/Queen." "Oh sweet!" VS: "Hey, I'm thinking about playing the Dwarf Noble. It says I'm royalty. Do I get to take the crown?" "No, but you can become a Paragon!" "Um... no thanks, I'll play the Human Noble." 

 

I mean, think of how many players choose Cousland just so they can take the throne at the end? Or how many female players choose to play Lady Cousland just so they can make Alistair king and remain with him, or become queen? Yet how many players choose a dwarf just so they can become a Paragon? Yeah... not many, sadly.  )

 

P.S. Oh! Oh! Plus! If you're playing a dwarf noble and you know what happens, you're forced to choose between your ruthless, traitorous younger brother, or a well-meaning but ineffectual ruler who'll eventually drive the country into the ground. If you're a dwarf noble, it would be physically painful to help crown the brother basically killed you and your older brother to get it, but as a player it would be hard to side with the noble who you know will not leave Orzammar in the best shape in the future. And combined with what I said before... well...

 

All right, I'll stop. 

 

The whole "why not reclaim?" makes sense to me. For whatever reasons, the DN has proven incapable of grabbing and holding the throne.  Either he is a kinslayer or he was convicted of such without being able to competently defend himself.  Making her illsuited for the cutthroat shark tank that is dwarven politics.   Even knowing the truth, Endrin won't rescind the verdict.  

 

As for my DN, knowing what happens I played her as not wanting anything to do with the throne. She, my DC and my mage, were the only ones who wanted to be grey wardens.  So she literally had no ambitions.  Bhelen never knew she would have been no threat.

 

And since hindsight is 20/20 and after multiple playthroughs of jumping through hoops like a trained poodle I don't care about the dwarves, I chose to have my DN use the opportunity to free her name and stick it to Bhelen as the mean spirited little thug he is.  Harrowmont took the throne.

 

I only played the DN origin once.  It's my least favorite one.

[Marika Haliwell]

Sylvanerie I looove your signature Teagan !

 

Yeah i tried to become Queen with my Amell and Alistair said that line : I was like WTF are you saying??? Amell is a noble family from Free marches, ******! 

Then I ran to cry in a corner because i was "blessed" with the gift of magic lmao. Deleted almost all the Landsmeet part and made him a Grey warden . What i get listening my boyfriend asking me to play without spoilers.

[Vlada47]

Well, once you're mage, your family name no longer matters. Plus I'd say Couslands have a chance of becoming king/queen mostly because they are actually above most nobles in Ferelden (they are supposed to be second only to the royal family itself).

[Kukuru]

I disliked Alistair at first, he was too childish and always whining but started liking him later on... until the Landsmet. On my first playthough I wanted him to marry Anora while keeping Loghain alive but couldn't because i took bad choices on his personal quest.

 

It surprised me that you can harden him and make him more practical.

 

 

 

Edit: Well, i understood the reason of the warning, i didn't thought bad words on a comic were reportable.

[Xetykins]

I disliked Alistair at first, he was too childish and always whining but started liking him later on... until the Landsmet. On my first playthough I wanted him to marry Anora while keeping Loghain alive but couldn't because i took bad choices on his personal quest.
 
It surprised me that you can harden him and make him more practical.
 
 
 
Edit: Well, i understood the reason of the warning, i didn't thought bad words on a comic were reportable.

It does not take a lot to get warnings these days. I don't know why when this is a forum for a game with mature content to start with. Even if you self censor your words, you'd still get them.

[sylvanaerie]

Sylvanerie I looove your signature Teagan !

 

Yeah i tried to become Queen with my Amell and Alistair said that line : I was like WTF are you saying??? Amell is a noble family from Free marches, ******! 

Then I ran to cry in a corner because i was "blessed" with the gift of magic lmao. Deleted almost all the Landsmeet part and made him a Grey warden . What i get listening my boyfriend asking me to play without spoilers.

 

hehe thanks.  my favorite lines in the game from my favorite NPC.

[gottaloveme]

My Frances Amell was talking to Alistair in the Fade.

 

F - 'You seem very content'.

A - 'I am. For the first time I'm happy. I thought being a GW would make me happy but it doesn't. This does. I don't want to fight every day for the rest of my life only to end up dying in a pit somewhere'.

 

I tend to think that these are his real feelings free of any feelings of gratitude, reciprocity or door-mattishness. His sense of duty would have him be the best GW he could be at a cost to himself of giving up the chance of family. But I think that family is where his heart truly is.

 

Certainly the SD is there to mess with his head and make him throw up being a warden for the chance of having a family.

 

There was a point to the post, but I seem to have mislaid it along with my glasses and keys

[Xetykins]

 

 
The Couslands aren't "above most nobles," they are nobles; they just happen to be the richest and most powerful.

They are the oldest of the nobles in ferelden and of royal line. If I recall they are even older than Calenhad. This is why Bryce would be readily accepted as king. But alas he does not want it, also as a man of honour, he probably wants to keep the oath his forefathers had given to the current royal line.

[Akrabra]

They are older then Calenhad. Couslands actually became a Teyrnir all the way back in the Black Age, and the Cousland name is older than that aswell. 

[sylvanaerie]

Even though I wrote a whole essay, I feel like I'm not making myself clear.

 

Grey Wardens also aren't supposed to get involved politically, and elf/mage/dwarf Wardens aren't allowed to marry the Ferelden sovereign since they couldn't produce a "legitimate heir," yet the writers bend the rules of their own universe for a Human Noble. "You're not allowed to get involved in politics and are practically infertile, thus unable to give our sovereign the heir s/he'll need to produce down the line... but that's okay, we'll make an exception for you."

 

Fair is fair. If they can make an exception to the rules of their own universe to let the Human Noble become King/Queen, why not make an even smaller exception for the Dwarf Noble? Especially since the "for whatever reasons" they gave are rather weak?

 

I feel like it would have been so easy for the writers to include the option of a little quest chain for the Dwarf Noble to clear their name, get their exile rescinded, gain support from the deysers, and use the Paragon's crown to crown themself king/queen if they so want. It  doesn't even have to be foolproof; if you killed Trian, didn't gain enough support and/or fail a persuasion check, the Assembly would say "No" and you'd have to give the crown to someone else. But it would be such a little thing to make the Dwarf Noble that much more enjoyable and meaningful to play.

 

 

The Couslands aren't "above most nobles," they are nobles; they just happen to be the richest and most powerful.

 

But still.

 

I find it off that when it comes to the Dwarf Noble and Orzammar, the writers say, "They need an heir and the nobles can't choose between Bhelen (an heir, but hated) and Harrowmont (not an heir, but well-liked), but even though you're qualified they bumped you off the list when you were exiled and now they won't make an exception for you."

 

But when it comes to the Human Noble and Ferelden (especially a female noble), they say, "They named a new sovereign and that sovereign needs to produce an heir. Alistair/Anora can't/won't marry your mage/elf/dwarf because the nobles will only accept a fertile non-magic human noble who can give a 'suitable' heir." Human Noble (especially female): "I'm practically infertile." "That's okay, the nobles will make an exception for you."

 

Do you see what I'm saying?

 

 

True, although I also got impression that Alistair loves the Grey Wardens partly because he sees them as the closest he has to a family. 

 

Like you see in his dream, what he really longs for is a family, but between his sense of duty and his knowledge that what little family he has rejected him (Eamon made him sleep in the stables and kennels like a dog until he kicked him out to please his shrew of a wife, the Templars expected Alistair to serve silently, and Goldana tells him to give her money and then get lost), he probably figures the Grey Wardens are the best he's ever going to get. It's sad really. 

 

Most people don't know this though.  Certainly grey wardens have had children in the past, though it's difficult, it's not impossible.  Now I detest head canon or fanfics that have Anora or Alistair having oodles of babies with the warden, but it's a compelling drive to procreate, beyond just heirs.  Cross race makes that even more difficult I would imagine.  The dwarf is another race, and I doubt the bannorn want a half dwarf as their next king, being this society seems pretty racially prejudiced.

 

Levi Dryden will ask the warden why he's involved in politics at all, (since grey wardens aren't supposed to) but that's not a hard and fast rule.  The Blight changes everything, and if the nobles find Anora or Alistair that much more acceptable with a Cousland on hand, it makes their choice that much simpler.  Anora even states the reasoning for this when the Cousland makes his proposal to join her on the throne.  So it's allowed.  Issues of heir or grey wardens will have to be addressed down the line,

Spoiler

and this may even explain some of the reason the HoF is on his/her mission in Inquisition to rid himself of the taint.

 

Is your issue more with the DN can't marry Alistair and the Cousland can, or that the DN can't be king/queen of Orzammar? At the time you crown Bhelen/Harrowmont, you aren't a paragon, you're an outcast, driven there by Bhelen's actions, a proven failure as far as dwarven politics goes.  Proving your innocence doesn't change the past.

[Xetykins]

They are older then Calenhad. Couslands actually became a Teyrnir all the way back in the Black Age, and the Cousland name is older than that aswell.

I know they're old but I did not know they're THAT old. I need to read the World of Thedas apparently :/

[gottaloveme]

I know they're old but I did not know they're THAT old. I need to read the World of Thedas apparently :/

 

Slacker!   Just talk to Aldous. They go back to Flemeth's legend (is that the Black Ages? ). Took over from Conobar (IIRC). The Cousland was his guard captain or something.