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[Xetykins]

I would like to share your opinion on the character,but things have not went in this direction in my canon ,due to the fact that i played a very merciful and loyal to the cause Warden.
He wished Loghain dead so badly, that he forgot completely our friendship and the favors that my warden had done to him,not to mention that he forgot Ferelden in that moment.

I think you're the one who forgot that friendship. But I think you haven't given that friendship a chance to start with because otherwise you would understand what Alistair feels and why he feels that way.

I also think you're the one who has forgotten about Ferelden if you are willing to gamble taking in an utterly disgusting selfish and paranoid man, who could still potentially screw up your cause because of his extreme paranoia over a proven ally.

And you did that even knowing that you don't have the time to sas up Loghain's intentions ( without meta gaming) knowing full well that the blight is almost at your doorstep.

You also forgot about Ferelden because Loghain "could" have died in the joining, and you already lost the other surviving Warden that in the end it could leave you with well.... you in the end.

You are so adamant of not killing loghain in front of his daughter? How many fathers has he slaughtered in front of many daughters with his warmongering, I wonder?

So no. It's Alistair all the way

[Vlada47]

 

i do not kill someone who surrender,this brutality is not in my style

Pff, that's the best time to strike... don't you anything about fighting? 

 

Anyway... I understand Alistair feelings on this and really don't feel any pity towards Loghain, the thing I didn't like was that I had to cut him down in front of Anora... that really didn't feel good (why can't we bring him somewhere else for the moment, Bioware?  ). But... what I think would be best is to let him live to fight in the battle (I doubt he would go about stabbing me or anyone with me, he still wants to fight for Ferelden first and foremost), either as a Warned or as regular soldier. IF he survives the battle, there should be some kind of trial, where anyone, who was wronged by him and Howe... all those nobles, Eamon and his family, regular folk, city elves, heck even the Chantry... they would decide if he should be executed or not (then either have him rot in a prison or work for his mistakes for the rest of his life). I think Alistair could be swayed to do this (he would also had some time to cool of and think this over)... at least he could recognize that neither he or my Warden alone should decide that on behalf of ALL, who suffered from Loghain's actions, what to do with him. But since this option is not on the table... well compromises have to be made sometimes.

[Akrabra]

I was always under the impression that Loghain wants to die, the way he says "Hush Anora, its over" He sounds relieved. Also he left you to die as much as he left Alistair to die, even if you didn't connect with the other Wardens or Cailan you would want some kind of justice. 

[Vlada47]

There's some Alistair picture for you... 

 

[Qun00]

I was always under the impression that Loghain wants to die, the way he says "Hush Anora, its over" He sounds relieved. Also he left you to die as much as he left Alistair to die, even if you didn't connect with the other Wardens or Cailan you would want some kind of justice.

Loghain only says that after you decide to kill him.

He accepts his fate, that's all there is to it.

How many fathers has he slaughtered in front of many daughters with his warmongering, I wonder?

Well... daughters don't go to war. They're not there to see it.

[theskymoves]

Well... daughters don't go to war. They're not there to see it.

 

The Fereldan armies have lots of women, all of whom who were someone's daughter. (Cauthrien, Mhairi, Aveline, F!Hawke, the many female soldiers at Ostagar, the female Ash Warriors..., and even female Templars like Sers Rylock and Rylien). Additionally, women amongst Ferelden's nobility are trained militarily just as the male nobles are... Eleanor Cousland and Bann Alfstanna Eremon are in-game examples of this, with the value placed on such training being strongly emphasized in supplemental materials as well, such as the novels (Queen Moira, Rowan Guerrin...) and the PnP RPG guide, which says:

 

While nearly all Fereldans boast some level of martial ability, nobles are expected to excel at warfare—it is, literally, their “job.”

 

[Illegitimus]

I was always under the impression that Loghain wants to die, the way he says "Hush Anora, its over" He sounds relieved. Also he left you to die as much as he left Alistair to die, even if you didn't connect with the other Wardens or Cailan you would want some kind of justice. 

 

Ah but which kind?  If I'm the city elf I'm just going to skewer him anyway.  Gotta stab them all.  But if I'm the human or dwarf noble, making him live with the loss of his position, under the authority of the foreigners he hates so much and forced to face the fact of just how wrong he was about the Gray Wardens...this is also a kind of justice.  Alistair sees becoming a Gray Warden as an honour, one he chose willingly and gave him the surrogate family he'd been yearning for.  But Loghain will find no such fulfillment.  Just loneliness and the loss of his position, power and freedom in exchange for nights filled with horrid visions.  

[Qun00]

The Fereldan armies have lots of women, all of whom who were someone's daughter. (Cauthrien, Mhairi, Aveline, F!Hawke, the many female soldiers at Ostagar, the female Ash Warriors..., and even female Templars like Sers Rylock and Rylien). Additionally, women amongst Ferelden's nobility are trained militarily just as the male nobles are... Eleanor Cousland and Bann Alfstanna Eremon are in-game examples of this, with the value placed on such training being strongly emphasized in supplemental materials as well, such as the novels (Queen Moira, Rowan Guerrin...) and the PnP RPG guide, which says:

While nearly all Fereldans boast some level of martial ability, nobles are expected to excel at warfare—it is, literally, their “job.”

You will still need the coincidence that both father and daughter are warriors and happen to be in the same area in the battlefield in order to witness one's death.

Still far, far from being like the scenario you have in the landsmeet.

[Vlada47]

On the other hand, there are worse things happening in the Ferelden during the Blight. Imagine father/mother watching his/her daughter being turn into the broodmother, without possibility to do something about it... you know what, you shouldn't imagine that. 

[Xetykins]

Well... daughters don't go to war. They're not there to see it.

They managed to get into the Cousland castle which I expect is heavily fortified. Loghain and his cronies would have no problems ransacking a poorer ban's house and villages along the way specially if they don't surrender. His cronies are already stealing lands for him. Can't see them keeping war exclusively on certain field. And I can't see them sparing women and children let alone the sight of their fathers, sons, brothers etc being hacked to pieces.

[Xetykins]

Here's an unhardened King Alibear.



source : http://thevulturesqu...e-throne-is-not

[sylvanaerie]

I think you just made the best argument for... um... "sparing" Loghain I've ever seen.

 

I'm still not convinced--I'll still slaughter him every time without feeling sorry--but I can see your logic.

 

 

Which only happened because Loghain abandoned Grey Wardens and let the darkspawn pour into Ferelden, then spent all his time and resources hunting down Grey Wardens instead of darkspawn, and fighting nobles instead of the darkspawn horde.

 

So, yeah. That's still on Loghain's head, which I'm very glad to lop off.

 

 

If there's one thing that studying medieval warfare, reading A Song of Ice and Fire, and playing side quests in the first and third game, it's that war never stays exclusively between designated soldiers in designated fields. Surrounding civilians always get caught up in the middle.

Zevran even says this during one of his conversations when you ask him if he ever harmed any innocents.  You're right, war isn't pretty, it doesn't have any rules.  Armies frequently rape, torture and murder those they conquer.  That means the innocents caught in the crossfire.

 

And Vlada, thanks for the nightmare fodder 

[Vlada47]

You're welcome...  Remember... it's everything just a bunch of meshes, textures and animation sequences, nothing more. 

[Vanalia]

I've never read the book "The Calling" but just discovered on wikipedia that in that book, Alistair is in fact the son of an elf mage warden... it sounds really weird, like a bad retcon. Because it means that everything said in DA:O is a lie (that's their retcon to explain it): he is human because children of elves and humans look humans (Hmm ok, strange logic), Goldanna is then in fact not related at all to Alistair (but still, she seems to think he is her half brother?), Maric in fact did not cheat on Rowan because he had that relationship with Alistair's elf mother (Maric seems to love only elves, or what?) in 9:10 while Rowan died in 9:08, but still, Eamon thought it would ternish Rowan's reputation (even he she was already dead when that happened?)

 

Even Loghain (if you spare him) in DA:O tells the warden that Maric cheated on Rowan, so why would he say that if it was not true? David Gaider definitely decided to rewrite the whole "Alistair's mother" story... and it contradicts the DA:O game, now.

 

I don't think this is very logical.

 

And so you can meet Alistair's mother in Dragon age Inquisition? that's so, so weird. When I look at Fiona, I just can't believe she's Alistair's mother, it's like a parallel story to me... and sounds so odd.

[Qun00]

Rewriting sounds like overstating things.

What does this really change aside from his mother's race?

Ah but which kind?  If I'm the city elf I'm just going to skewer him anyway.  Gotta stab them all.  But if I'm the human or dwarf noble, making him live with the loss of his position, under the authority of the foreigners he hates so much and forced to face the fact of just how wrong he was about the Gray Wardens...this is also a kind of justice.  Alistair sees becoming a Gray Warden as an honour, one he chose willingly and gave him the surrogate family he'd been yearning for.  But Loghain will find no such fulfillment.  Just loneliness and the loss of his position, power and freedom in exchange for nights filled with horrid visions.

You know what I find funny, though? Loghain seems bothered by the shortened life span when the Warden mentions it (after recruiting him).

I'm like "Dude... you already are old. Thirty years is about what you got left in one way or another.

[Vanalia]

Well, all that fuss about Goldanna, Alistair sad about thinking that his half-sister doesn't like him, Goldanna being bitter about that little brother of noble birth... all these scenes were for nothing? they're not even connected?

 

And the fact that Alistair was hidden because he was the result of Maric being unfaithful to his queen... it doesn't mean anything anymore, either, because the relationship is supposed to happen 2 years after the queen's death...

 

It was tragic to think that Alistair's mother was dead, because the only person alive of his family was his half-sister, who rejects him... and now, it doesn't mean anything anymore either.

 

His mother is alive, looking as young as him (even if elves are supposed to age like humans in Dragon age), and was alive all that time, etc...

[Xetykins]

Well, all that fuss about Goldanna, Alistair sad about thinking that his half-sister doesn't like him, Goldanna being bitter about that little brother of noble birth... all these scenes were for nothing? they're not even connected?

Don't forget that Alistair was meant to be a lot older and not Maric's child. That conversation with Loghain was probably something they forgot to change..OR.. Maric told him porkies because in the end, Maric did not tell Loggy everything.

I've never read the book "The Calling" but just discovered on wikipedia that in that book, Alistair is in fact the son of an elf mage warden... it sounds really weird, like a bad retcon. Because it means that everything said in DA:O is a lie (that's their retcon to explain it): he is human because children of elves and humans look humans (Hmm ok, strange logic), Goldanna is then in fact not related at all to Alistair (but still, she seems to think he is her half brother?), Maric in fact did not cheat on Rowan because he had that relationship with Alistair's elf mother (Maric seems to love only elves, or what?) in 9:10 while Rowan died in 9:08, but still, Eamon thought it would ternish Rowan's reputation (even he she was already dead when that happened?)

Even Loghain (if you spare him) in DA:O tells the warden that Maric cheated on Rowan, so why would he say that if it was not true? David Gaider definitely decided to rewrite the whole "Alistair's mother" story... and it contradicts the DA:O game, now.

I don't think this is very logical.

And so you can meet Alistair's mother in Dragon age Inquisition? that's so, so weird. When I look at Fiona, I just can't believe she's Alistair's mother, it's like a parallel story to me... and sounds so odd.

Think about the whole thing as a grand cover-up fit for the future king. Which by the way was not his whole idea, but because of the promise he made to Fiona.

[Vanalia]

Yes, I have to see that story as a "big lie made by Maric to others to protect Fiona's secret", but still, now the events of DA:O about Alistair's mother (his sister, his feelings about it, his mother's amulet found in the castle where she was supposed to work, etc... ) everything sounds weird now. It was tragic and now it sounds just like a bad retcon or a big lie...

 

And there is a gap of 2 years between the death of Fiona and the birth of Alistair, so anyone could see that the baby was just born and not a 2 or 3 years old baby... you can lie about the age of someone when he is adult, but it's harder to lie about the age of a baby or a small child because they grow up fast and you can tell the difference...

[GoldenGail3]

The whole thing with Fiona is one big sad joke, my Cousland would be so mad to hear that Fiona was his mother, sense she visted Goldana with Alistair (yes. she is a Alistair romance). I really don't like it, it makes me so mad at Eamon, Fiona and everyone else that lied to Alistair's and Goldana's face, Goldana didn't deserve to be lied to, my Cousland would be pissed simply because Goldana believes Alistair to be her half-brother when in reality she isn't even related to him. She'd so call Fiona out on that.

[Qun00]

Fiona didn't want Alistair to live with the prejudice from being elf-blooded.

[GoldenGail3]

Fiona didn't want Alistair to live with the prejudice from being elf-blooded.

Yeah, i know. But Goldana! The woman thinks Alistair is her half-sister, because of Fiona's and Maric's lies. That's the sad joke, their not even related and they think they are.

[RoseLawliet]

Very sorry if someone's already said this, but I am sadly not dedicated enough to read over one thousand pages to avoid annoying people.

 

Is there anyone here better-versed in genetics than I am? I know a bit -- just enough to be dangerous. Alistair and Cailan are half-brothers, related through their father. Cailan has grey or green eyes (I can't really tell, the lighting changes it), which are both recessive. I'm fairly certain (around 90%) that his mother, Rowan, was said to have had grey eyes in The Stolen Throne. Maric, on the other hand, I want to say had blue eyes? I'm far less certain about this. Alistair has brown eyes. Fiona has blue eyes (blue? green? ugh lighting in these games!), which are, again, recessive. Now, I could be wrong but I thought blue + blue/green couldn't make brown.

 

Again, sorry if this was already mentioned. And I also apologize for my cursory knowledge of genetics (human genetics, that is. I'm much better with horse coats). It fascinates me as a subject and I'd love to know more.

[Xetykins]

Yeah, i know. But Goldana! The woman thinks Alistair is her half-sister, because of Fiona's and Maric's lies. That's the sad joke, their not even related and they think they are.

What about Goldanna?? She does not even want to know about Alistair UNLESS he can giver her MoNeY. Thank the maker she's really not his sister.

And Fiona has legit reasons why she does not want Alistair's parents to be known by all. It does not mean it's right but kind of understandable.

Anyway, the discussion is moot because Alistair apparently still does not know who his mother is even now. Only Eamon and Fiona and most possibly Teagan are the only ones left that knows the truth.

[Xetykins]

but still, now the events of DA:O about Alistair's mother (his sister, his feelings about it, his mother's amulet found in the castle

That amulet could be Fiona's and not from who he thought was his mother.