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[GoldenGail3]

Hey, it's not me who keep insulting Loghain in every thread, the haters keep doing this, I'm tired of them too.
 
I kept Alistair (and romanced him) in my first playthrough and killed Loghain, if you want to know.
 
I just say it's stupid to say that "Alistair NEVER betrays/abandon you", no, it totally depends on your choices in the game, he can abandon you, just like Zevran can betray you, Wynne can leave, etc. You know, you can like Alistair AND make the choice to conscript Loghain without prefering him, just because you want to sacrifice him against the Archdemon for example. There are so many possibilities.

He doesn't though If you kill Loghian. And I made that point clear, kill Loghian and he stays with you. He's not Zevran, that backstabber. He acted like a total normal human being, and gets called whiny. I'm sick of people saying he's whiny becuase he rebeled against leaving a man that killed his family alive. That's normal and human, and no, it's not stupid saying that. Becuase he doesn't, he's loyal to you, if you kill Loghian. I'm not a hater of Loghian, he has his faults and good traits, I like him in DAI, actually. I really don't like keeping Loghian alive while I'm playing the game though, it's a hard descion to betray him. I love Alistair too much for that.

[Vanalia]

They could hate him anyway, and refuse to work with him, just like most of you hate him without having been at Ostagar, see? just hearing rumors and stories about the alienage and all. A lot of people in Denerim/Ferelden ended up hating him without having anyone of their family dead at Ostagar or because of Loghain's actions. Almost all these nobles at the Landsmeet wanted him executed, too.

 

The thing is, I kept Alistair with me and executed Loghain in my first playthrough because I didn't even try the option of dialogue to spare Loghain

 

If I had seen how Alistair tried to make his emotial blackmail on the warden, I may have changed my mind then. I HATE when people try to do emotional blackmail especially on things as important as killing someone disarmed who surrendered, or threatening to be king just to have someone dead (and not for the good of the country).

"You don't want to do as I wish? ok, I leave you!"

"I let you take all the responsabilities until now because I didn't want to make any choice, but this time I cry if you don't want to choose what I want."

 

That's why I prefer to keep in my first playthrough an Alistair who doesn't make any emotional blackmail. Can't stand that.

 

I don't say like some others that Alistair is whining all the time. And "he stays with you if you kill Loghain" is not an excuse, it's still blackmailing. "If you don't do what I want, I abandon you". See? it works like this with Mister Alistair. Of course he stays if you obey him, like a child who would stop crying if you give him back his lolipop.

 

And yeeees I understand WHY he wants Loghain dead, of course, I just can't stand emotional blackmail and people who do this in order to get you do what they want.

[GoldenGail3]

They could hate him anyway, and refuse to work with him, just like most of you hate him without having been at Ostagar, see? just hearing rumors and stories about the alienage and all. A lot of people in Denerim/Ferelden ended up hating him without having anyone of their family dead at Ostagar or because of Loghain's actions. Almost all these nobles at the Landsmeet wanted him executed, too.
 
The thing is, I kept Alistair with me and executed Loghain in my first playthrough because I didn't even try the option of dialogue to spare Loghain
 
If I had seen how Alistair tried to make his emotial blackmail on the warden, I may have changed my mind then. I HATE when people try to do emotional blackmail especially on things as important as killing someone disarmed who surrendered, or threatening to be king just to have someone dead (and not for the good of the country).
"You don't want to do as I wish? ok, I leave you!"
"I let you take all the responsabilities until now because I didn't want to make any choice, but this time I cry if you don't want to choose what I want."
 
That's why I prefer to keep in my first playthrough an Alistair who doesn't make any emotional blackmail. Can't stand that.

Okay. I'm not gonna even try auguring with you, it's futile on my behalf.

[Vanalia]

Yes, it's wasting my time as well.

 

I really love Alistair but I can't be blind about his flaws, not like some other people who don't seem to be able to see them.

 

 

Hey, let's share love instead of hate, here is a nice fanart by Starship Sorceress:

http://www.deviantar...eirin-551001144

 

[GoldenGail3]

You think I'm a a Loghian hater? Really? I'm not. I think it's painful watching Alistair break down that way. I know Alistair has faults, but so does Loghian. So does everyone in DAO. So don't think I'm blind to them. I just like Alistair (he's my Canon romance).

[Vanalia]

Me too, me too, you know my main playthrough is Queen Cousland married to Alistair, and I didn't want to break my romance so I didn't spare Loghain.

 

But I wanted him to go to prison instead. I don't like the extreme choices they give us, I wonder why they did not put an intermediate option, because so few people wanted to spare Loghain anyway, but if you add to that the departure of Alistair, a character you have in your party from the start (leveled up and fully equipped), even less people would choose to spare the antagonist. But still, they created dialogues and everything in case you wanted Loggy in your team.

 

I wonder if it is because they planned to integrate him to the team earlier in the game but then changed their minds. It seems like they went into a lot of trouble just to make this option available, option only 1% of the players would choose anyway.

 

He even came back in DA:I, even if he's the most hated character of all Dragon age for a majority of players. There must be a fan of Loghain among the developers 

[BevH]

This argument again.  Excuse me while I go over here and..

 

http://i838.photobuc...ie/headdesk.jpg

 

and can't figure out how to post an image.    

For you, Syl:

[GoldenGail3]

Me too, me too, you know my main playthrough is Queen Cousland married to Alistair, and I didn't want to break my romance so I didn't spare Loghain.

 

But I wanted him to go to prison instead. I don't like the extreme choices they give us, I wonder why they did not put an intermediate option, because so few people wanted to spare Loghain anyway, but if you add to that the departure of Alistair, a character you have in your party from the start (leveled up and fully equipped), even less people would choose to spare the antagonist. But still, they created dialogues and everything in case you wanted Loggy in your team.

 

I wonder if it is because they planned to integrate him to the team earlier in the game but then changed their minds. It seems like they went into a lot of trouble just to make this option available, option only 1% of the players would choose anyway.

 

He even came back in DA:I, even if he's the most hated character of all Dragon age for a majority of players. There must be a fan of Loghain among the developers 

 

I like in DAI actually, i appreciate him. And i agree with you, my Cousland probably would've throw him in jail (peacemaker she is). And then married Alistair. 

[Xetykins]

Well, at least I can be honest and say that I love Alistair too much to even roleplay as a redeemer. Even the thought of making Loghain live make my skin crawl. That's why I'd never go to any Loghain thread and bash him in front of his fans because it's disrespectful imho. Random posts on the other hand is ffa.

[GoldenGail3]

Well, at least I can be honest and say that I love Alistair too much to even roleplay as a redeemer. Even the thought of making Loghain live make my skin crawl. That's why I'd never go to any Loghain thread and don't bash him in front of his fans because it's disrespectful imho. Random posts on the other hand is ffa.

 

To be honest, in my mind Alistair is a bit of a pedestal (which means i totally ignore his faults, don't like thinking about them) which i don't do to any other character. 

[Xetykins]

To be honest, in my mind Alistair is a bit of a pedestal (which means i totally ignore his faults, don't like thinking about them) which i don't do to any other character.

I'm on your court of pedestal Alistair worshiper

[GoldenGail3]

I'm on your court of pedestal Alistair worshiper

Yeah, I know. Not even Cullen gets this sort of attention from me. And I love my Sir Knights. Solas however, doesn't need or want for one, like Alistair does. I love Solass faults. It's amazing, that romance.

[Vanalia]

Let's say that before I didn't really want to see Alistair's faults either, and now I see them entirely, like if they were thrown at my face, so he fell from the pedestal  even if I still like him. Now I guess I'm more mature and prefer another type of men (like Cullen in DA:I who is more mature and takes more responsabilities).

[Xetykins]

Let's say that before I didn't really want to see Alistair's faults either, and now I see them entirely, like if they were thrown at my face, so he fell from the pedestal  even if I still like him. Now I guess I'm more mature and prefer another type of men (like Cullen in DA:I who is more mature and takes more responsabilities).

Wanting Loghain dead is not a fault though so he's perfect!

[GoldenGail3]

(Get him off Lyrum and he'll stay with you, and does he get called Whiny for that? No!) So i'm sick of people telling me that Alistair is whiny, he's human! He acted like he was suppose when you don't kill the one that betrayed and killed all of his family. Oh and it's your choice, you could've killed Loghian, and he wouldn't have run off. And tell me, when he's king is not taking resonbilities? Oh wait, he is. How ironic how you could claim that when he doesn't.

 

(We're going in a loop here.. yet again.... )

[sylvanaerie]

Let's say that before I didn't really want to see Alistair's faults either, and now I see them entirely, like if they were thrown at my face, so he fell from the pedestal  even if I still like him. Now I guess I'm more mature and prefer another type of men (like Cullen in DA:I who is more mature and takes more responsabilities).

 

Now, to be fair, Alistair in Origins is around 20.  DAI Cullen is at least 10-15 years older than that, as it's been something like 12 years since the Blight.  Some account must be made for the impetuousness of youth.  I love Alistair, but I'm aware of his faults.  I just never let them bother me overmuch.

 

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed both characters, their romance arcs as well.  Alistair is still my favorite, just the right amount of angst and sweet for the bitter, but Cullen is a strong second.  Isabela is third, mostly because of the amount of depth you discover to her writing if you get her to open up to a Hawke in love.  I really, really love character evolution.

[BevH]

Now, to be fair, Alistair in Origins is around 20.  DAI Cullen is at least 10-15 years older than that, as it's been something like 12 years since the Blight.  Some account must be made for the impetuousness of youth.  I love Alistair, but I'm aware of his faults.  I just never let them bother me overmuch.

 

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed both characters, their romance arcs as well.  Alistair is still my favorite, just the right amount of angst and sweet for the bitter, but Cullen is a strong second.  Isabela is third, mostly because of the amount of depth you discover to her writing if you get her to open up to a Hawke in love.  I really, really love character evolution.

Actually, Cullen's writer in DAI said he's around 30ish at the start of the game. So he and Alistair are roughly the same age in DAO.

 

As for this argument, Alistair sees this as a betrayal. Yes, he'll abandon the wardens for it, but he feels that strongly about it which is something I respect. Would my warden be upset about his reaction? Of course. But I only took this option once, and that was a warden that I married to Anora. Personally, my Queen Cousland saw what Loghain did at Ostagar as desertion, which carries a death penalty.

[GoldenGail3]

Now, to be fair, Alistair in Origins is around 20.  DAI Cullen is at least 10-15 years older than that, as it's been something like 12 years since the Blight.  Some account must be made for the impetuousness of youth.  I love Alistair, but I'm aware of his faults.  I just never let them bother me overmuch.
 
That said, I thoroughly enjoyed both characters, their romance arcs as well.  Alistair is still my favorite, just the right amount of angst and sweet for the bitter, but Cullen is a strong second.  Isabela is third, mostly because of the amount of depth you discover to her writing if you get her to open up to a Hawke in love.  I really, really love character evolution.

I agree with you! That's why Isabela is one of my canon romances (rivalmanced Isabela is the best). OMG, and i love Alistairs romance, it's the best ever. I always choose to romance him as a female Warden (Amells/Couslands).

[sylvanaerie]

Actually, Cullen's writer in DAI said he's around 30ish at the start of the game. So he and Alistair are roughly the same age in DAO.

 

As for this argument, Alistair sees this as a betrayal. Yes, he'll abandon the wardens for it, but he feels that strongly about it which is something I respect. Would my warden be upset about his reaction? Of course. But I only took this option once, and that was a warden that I married to Anora. Personally, my Queen Cousland saw what Loghain did at Ostagar as desertion, which carries a death penalty.

 That's what I mean (though I probably wasn't clear) that if Alistair and Cullen are approximately the same age, that would put him at least 10-15 years older than Origins Alistair (who is in his early 20s in Origins) since it's been 12 years since the Blight/Events of Origins.

 

I agree with you! That's why Isabela is one of my canon romances (rivalmanced Isabela is the best). OMG, and i love Alistairs romance, it's the best ever. I always choose to romance him as a female Warden (Amells/Couslands).

 

Alistair is my canon romance (Surana), Isabela is my canon Hawke romance (LadyHawke rogue) and Cullen is going to be my canon Inquisitor romance (in all likelihood) though I really enjoyed Dorian's and am currently enjoying Cassie's.  Blackwall was good but too much angst overload for me, not my cup of tea.

 

Keep allows me to tinker with all kinds of cool world states though.

Spoiler

 My last run, Loghain was alive and i got to see his cameo.  Even if you can't recruit him in game, you should at least do it in keep to see his scenes which surprised me by being enjoyable.  He also has the best dialogue with Nightmare in the Fade.

[GoldenGail3]

 
Alistair is my canon romance (Surana), Isabela is my canon Hawke romance (LadyHawke rogue) and Cullen is going to be my canon Inquisitor romance (in all likelihood) though I really enjoyed Dorian's and am currently enjoying Cassie's.  Blackwall was good but too much angst overload for me, not my cup of tea.
 
Keep allows me to tinker with all kinds of cool world states though.

Spoiler

 My last run, Loghain was alive and i got to see his cameo.  Even if you can't recruit him in game, you should at least do it in keep to see his scenes which surprised me by being enjoyable.  He also has the best dialogue with Nightmare in the Fade.

I know! It's great isn't it? Loghian in DAI is someone I admire. And you litterally stated my canon romances (Queen Cousland/ Alistair, Male Snarky Mage Hawke/Rivalmanced Isabela, and Cullen/ Female Mage Trevelyan). And it's real fun becuase my Canon is the worldstate I actually played through in game and finished.

[sylvanaerie]

I know! It's great isn't it? Loghian in DAI is someone I admire. And you litterally stated my canon romances (Queen Cousland/ Alistair, Male Snarky Mage Hawke/Rivalmanced Isabela, and Cullen/ Female Mage Trevelyan). And it's real fun becuase my Canon is the worldstate I actually played through in game and finished.

I did use my canon  on the first game and the most recent, just finished--all DLCs etc and as complete as i could make it.  I used two other keep states having the other two warden companions for other dialogues, making choices as different as I could in both keep and Inquisition.  I'm not so much 'completionist' in one game as I am all about the 'do all kinds of crazy stuff to see as much as I can'.  I want my money's worth.

[BevH]

My canon world state is Queen Cousland/Alistair, Snarky female rogue Hawke/Anders (don't shoot me   ), and Warrior Trevelyan/Cullen.

[Vanalia]

There is not point in saying "Alistair doesn't abandon you if you choose this or that option, so it means he never abandons you". It's up to everyone to choose what kind of path we want to follow, it's not because he doesn't abandon the warden in YOUR playthrough that it's the same for everyone.

 

And Cullen is not whiny about lyrium, poor Cullen, lyrium is a REAL big health problem, as you can see in his bad and cruel ending in Trespasser if you tell him to keep taking lyrium. It leads him to madness and to death, so yeah, the question about lyrium is VERY important for him. It's not a tantrum.

 

Yes Cullen is older in DA:I than Alistair is in DA:O, or course. But age doesn't explain everything, there are people (and especially men) who are still very immature at 30, and some others who are already very mature at 20.

 

And being a king is not a proof of maturity AT ALL. Especially if he chooses to be king just because he wants to decide of Loghain's fate, and he is manipulated by Eamon, too. Look also at Joffrey from Game of Throne, being a king made him mature? no. 

 

I never liked Isebela. I usually don't like that kind of character (selfish, manipulating, dishonest, thief, who doesn't like it when you do good actions, etc)

[GoldenGail3]

I did use my canon  on the first game and the most recent, just finished--all DLCs etc and as complete as i could make it.  I used two other keep states having the other two warden companions for other dialogues, making choices as different as I could in both keep and Inquisition.  I'm not so much 'completionist' in one game as I am all about the 'do all kinds of crazy stuff to see as much as I can'.  I want my money's worth.

I like the way you think!

[GoldenGail3]

There is not point in saying "Alistair doesn't abandon you if you choose this or that option, so it means he never abandons you". It's up to everyone to choose what kind of path we want to follow, it's not because he doesn't abandon the warden in YOUR playthrough that it's the same for everyone.
 
And Cullen is not whiny about lyrium, poor Cullen, lyrium is a REAL big health problem, as you can see in his bad and cruel ending in Trespasser if you tell him to keep taking lyrium. It leads him to madness and to death, so yeah, the question about lyrium is VERY important for him. It's not a tantrum.
 
Yes Cullen is older in DA:I than Alistair is in DA:O, or course. But age doesn't explain everything, there are people (and especially men) who are still very immature at 30, and some others who are already very mature at 20.
 
And being a king is not a proof of maturity AT ALL. Especially if he chooses to be king just because he wants to decide of Loghain's fate, and he is manipulated by Eamon, too. Look also at Joffrey from Game of Throne, being a king made him mature? no. 
 
I never liked Isebela. I usually don't like that kind of character (selfish, manipulating, dishonest, thief, who doesn't like it when you do good actions, etc)

Ah, so what do you have to say about Cullen in DA2? Was his actions better then Alistairs? They were both recovering from tramatic situations (Alistairs is Ostagar, Cullen's in the Circle Tower). They were both young, and did stupid, stupid things. And I like Isabela as rivalmanced because she tries to become a better person, and that's a whole lot of character development. So, if I mentioned that Fenris is also good on rivalmanced. And Alistair did mature in ten years, that's a lot of time for character devolpment. He's mentioned to be a great leader in DAI if he's king,