39004 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

There is not point in saying "Alistair doesn't abandon you if you choose this or that option, so it means he never abandons you". It's up to everyone to choose what kind of path we want to follow, it's not because he doesn't abandon the warden in YOUR playthrough that it's the same for everyone.
 
 

Exactly my point. You keep on talking trash about Alistair because of what he wanted to do to your precious Loghain. You kept in bringing up how he abandons you, how he is emotionally blackmailing you and how immature he is unlike Cullen. And now you even compared him to Jeoffry? Really?

That's fine. But consider that a lot of people can sympathise why Alistair acts that way in the landsmeet. And to be fair, it shouldn't even come as a shock to you IF you even bother to talk/listen to him.

And his maturity as king? In DAO if you harden him, the epilogues speaks very well of him. He's actually trying to remedy his severe lack of training by studying/learning what he can. I don't know about you but the way he disposes Fiona off as King was worthy, even if the letters he sent to the Inquisitor still bears a 100% Alistair trademark. Some people hate it, but I like it. It's nice that Alistair did not completely become 100% someone else upon becoming king. He's also not doing too shabby as a warden in DAI. Discredit his kingship all you want or call him immature, but at the end of the day, he became a great king.

Not too bad at all for someone who's the role model half his life in DAO are most likely the mabaris in the kennel.

So you see? Some of us haven't gone where you've been with Alistair because they never went there. You made that choice to go there and whine. It will be something like me whinning about having to kill every companion I could kill because I chosed to destroy the sacred ashes, for example Wynne and Leliana.

[sylvanaerie]

I don't even know where to begin.   I'd like things to stay civil on this thread, but it looks like its just getting more and more heated, and I fear this can only end in tears.

 

After six years of arguing over these particular characters, with the same old arguments, I admit, I'm tired.  All I have to add to this discussion is:

 

Anyone who would compare Joffrey to a character--even peripherally--can't say they like (or even understand) said character and expect me to believe them.    Seriously, Alistair has his flaws, but Joffrey takes vile to all new levels.  The only character in DA who comes close to that level of evil is Howe.  Maybe Vaughan.  Certainly not Alistair.

[GoldenGail3]

I don't even know where to begin.   I'd like things to stay civil on this thread, but it looks like its just getting more and more heated, and I fear this can only end in tears.
 
After six years of arguing over these particular characters, with the same old arguments, I admit, I'm tired.  All I have to add to this discussion is:
 
Anyone who would compare Joffrey to a character--even peripherally--can't say they like (or even understand) said character and expect me to believe them.    Seriously, Alistair has his flaws, but Joffrey takes vile to all new levels.  The only character in DA who comes close to that level of evil is Howe.  Maybe Vaughan.  Certainly not Alistair.

I'm attempting clivilty (I really am!) I hope It can remain this way.. (:

[Qun00]

Anyone who would compare Joffrey to a character--even peripherally--can't say they like (or even understand) said character and expect me to believe them.

Ohh, no question about that.

There are flaws that tick me off regarding my favorite characters, but let me tell you, I'm not half as passionate about those as Vanalia is.

This isn't mere acknowledgment as s/he may claim. It is hatred.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I came in here to gush and bathe in the sunshine that is Alistair. Don't mind me.

[GoldenGail3]

I came in here to gush and bathe in the sunshine that is Alistair. Don't mind me.

[Vanalia]

It's because you didn't understand what I said, I never said that Alistair was like Joffrey!

I was just replying to GoldenGail3 who was saying that "being a king means being mature". I said that no, there are immature kings, like Joffrey for example. I never said that Alistair was like Joffrey. So stop crying.

[GoldenGail3]

It's because you didn't understand what I said, I never said that Alistair was like Joffrey!
I was just replying to GoldenGail3 who was saying that "being a king means being mature". I said that no, there are immature kings, like Joffrey for example. I never said that Alistair was like Joffrey. So stop crying.

If you hardened him, he is a way mature then let's say Unhardended Alistair, who continues to be 'immature'. It's even in his ending, where he's described to be well loved by his people (and tries to learn the art of diplomacy, despite not being well versed in it). He doesn't like being King, but he does what he has too. He also has a rare trait of thinking of himself not just as a noble, but as a commoner, and does try to not be manpluated by the whims of Eamon and Teagan, who like to use him. This is just if he's hardened (when he's unhardened, he goes around talking to people, which is makes your point stand, but as my Canon Alistair was hardened alongside my Queen Cousland) so it's very possible to get your point, but he is overall more mature at ruling as a Hardended Alistair rather then not.

[Vanalia]

Mine was unhardened, it's a possibility among others. Hardening him seems quite artificial to me, like "saying some words completly change him from immature to mature". His reaction at the Landsmeet is immature anyway, hardened or not.

But of course he can become mature later, after years of ruling. Even if in my DA:I he didn't seem mature at all, but it's hard to tell just with missions and letters. I wonder how would be a romance with 30 years old Alistair ?

[GoldenGail3]

Mine was unhardened, it's a possibility among others. Hardening him seems quite artificial to me, like "saying some words completly change him from immature to mature". His reaction at the Landsmeet is immature anyway, hardened or not.
But of course he can become mature later, after years of ruling. Even if in my DA:I he didn't seem mature at all, but it's hard to tell just with missions and letters. I wonder how would be a romance with 30 years old Alistair ?

To what, Loghian being alive? That's not being immature, that's acing like a person that survived a horrible situation, to have the that killed your family still live. That's probaly acing more as a human, becuase you know, both you and Alistair had no idea that it was required to have a sarfice to the Archdemon. You didn't know until the last second, when Riodan told you. I image he'd more willing to let Loghian live if he had known actually, but he didn't, so he acted how he acted because he simply didn't know, and hated the fact that you let the killer of his family live. But it's not maturity In DAI that makes him act like that... I think in my Canon it's because he can't focus because of his dear wife's dispearance, I can sympathize with him in that.

[Vanalia]

No, more the "I didn't want to be king, but just to get that one thing I want, I'll be king!" Anora comments his reaction and she is quite right about it. At that moment he puts his personal wish before everything else (duty as a Warden, country, duty as a king, friends, etc).

I totally understand why he wants Loghain dead, that is not the question, it's more how he deals with it.

But well, let's change the topic, let's talk about the love of cheese in the Theirin family

[GoldenGail3]

Wait, I though Fiona disliked cheese? She had a cheese dream of a sort.

[Vanalia]

His love of cheese comes from Maric!

[GoldenGail3]

I haven't read the comics... Unfornately.

[BevH]

For my sanity, and the fact that this should remain civil, I will bow out of any discussion regarding Fiona.

[GoldenGail3]

For my sanity, and the fact that this should remain civil, I will bow out of any discussion regarding Fiona.

.... But.... We were talking about cheese, and how Fiona had a nightmare on cheese.. And Marics and Alistairs love of cheese..

[Xetykins]

Even if in my DA:I he didn't seem mature at all, but it's hard to tell just with missions and letters. I wonder how would be a romance with 30 years old Alistair ?

This.. is what romancing a 30 yr old Alistair is like. Just every bit as sweet and endearing mature as when he was 19 or 20.

Spoiler

Dragon Age: Inquisition - Contacting the Hero of …: http://youtu.be/PbF2MmCZU7E

But I bet you will never see it because that would mean killing off your Loghain

And is the King Alistair that you found immature....?

Spoiler

Dragon Age: Inquisition - King Alistair Cameo (fe…: http://youtu.be/1nCoS4udAs0

And regarding the landsmeet. Would it make him "mature" if he said "yes maam" all the time to the warden?
Does wanting Loghain pay for every atrocious, horrible and disgusting things he has done, immature?

Would him not having strong feelings about anything make him mature?

If yes, then you don't want mature, you want a Drone.

[Vanalia]

Xetykins I won't answer to your post because you got all wrong what I said previously. And it seems you keep forgetting that my main play has Queen Cousland and King Alistair, so stop saying I never killed Loghain, because I am more open minded than you, see, I try many options to be able to judge, unlike many people here who didn't even dare trying something else because they would see sides they don't like of their beloved character.

I prefer a character like Cullen now, able to take responsabilities, not someone who hides behind me for everything apart from the only choice that needed my real approval. The only choice Alistair was unable to make with objectivity.

[Aren]

You think I'm a a Loghian hater? Really? I'm not. I think it's painful watching Alistair break down that way. I know Alistair has faults, but so does Loghian. So does everyone in DAO. So don't think I'm blind to them. I just like Alistair (he's my Canon romance).

To me 'is more painful watch Anora over her father body,but to each his own i guess apparently the feeling of one single man is   more important than the life of another,ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since that Alistair's wish (as well as the DAO only solution) was a stuck between life or a barbarian execution,as a person who strongly believe in the idea that the approach of law is indeed much more complicated than having a couple of teenagers who stand up as the judge,the jury and the executioner in pretty much what is a

"fair trial" only to reach what it is for me the "immense decadence" of the death penalty.

Was that the purpose of the landsmeet i wonder?

I didn't realize that Bann Alfstanna mentioned death penalty as one of the rules of the Landsmeet ,pretty much Alistair is the only one who demand death especially to fill up the void of his remorse towards Duncan which obviously an alpha hurlock commanded by the tainted Urthemiel,god of an empire of slaves killed, not Loghain,or Cailan who pretty much decided to battle in the front line as a king and didn't even listen to Loghain when he asked to him to not underestimate the battle blight and remain with him,but no obviously Cailan and s idea of the blight ends here is the kind of glory that kills the one who is mad

( and yet people still are willing to save that monster of a dragon  because now their invincibility curtain is at risk just as their happy ending obtained in darkness and selfishness)

Since that i live in Europe and i'm inspired with this type of law that always grant life even to the most "unworthy"

(not monsters like an archdemon or a false dragon god, that need to be injected into a child like a parasite,born for profit and ready to be achieved by some misantropich witches for world changing events) 

I didn't even listen to that man of whom personal sorrow overcome the wisdom as well as te rationality ,and him just want to be king to crave the power to kill someone?

This is the 20 years old teenager that want to represent  Ferelden and it's crown?

Do i  Have a better candidate  over there?

 My own Warden of course who is wise enough to stop and listen to who is more senior than him 

(Riordan who was even tortured by Loghain) and  not willing to kill people that admitted defeat like a barbarian

(continue to the point of killing is cruelty,it doesn't morph in something else just because you are doing yours "right thing")

A decadent former hero dyng in front of all the nobles and his own daughter,this is   Alistair's justice, not mine.

Which was redemption,redemption and again redemption,also killing that false god wthout ask nothing to any other GW,because that was Loghain last act,a men wo didn't hesitate,deny to him the sacrifice to that point would have wronged him.

 

ps  couldn't care less of Alistair romance, im not a female and neither i will kill someone in order to maintain a relationship.

[Xetykins]

Xetykins I won't answer to your post because you got all wrong what I said previously. And it seems you keep forgetting that my main play has Queen Cousland and King Alistair, so stop saying I never killed Loghain, because I am more open minded than you, see, I try many options to be able to judge, unlike many people here who didn't even dare trying something else because they would see sides they don't like of their beloved character.
I prefer character like Cullen now, able to take responsabilities, not someone who hide behind me for everything UNLESS for the only choice that needed my real approval.

You also said that that playthrough was the only time you killed loghain. And since you like him so much I guess he always lives on your next play throughs.

And Lol! You still insist he's immature and irresponsible even after all the evidence to the contrary. C'mon, it took me ages to do that on my phone :/ Who is being closed minded now? At least I never ever pretend to like Loghain and subtly bash him over and over. We had a few regulars on this thread who likes Loghain too but they did not once pretend otherwise. I kinda respect them for that, and there was nice debate going on.

[Aren]

I prefer a character like Cullen now, able to take responsabilities, not someone who hides behind me for everything

That is basically the weakness of all the DAO characters,puppets who hide themselves behind the Warden back.

For Alistair this however is accentuated, i liked him during  Ostagar and Lothering.

After that however he became more and more whining,during Ostagar he was like a co-leader after that he became less than a shadow  of the warden

Alistair didn't even showed his kingly qualities in DAO,he was a man who was hiding behind my back all the time,for everything.

I didn't want the crown and the only alternative was Anora who as far as i consider her to be more skilled than Alistar,lacking in generosity especially towards the elves of Ferelden who i will not leave in that state.

As for the slideshow  they are not entirely canon,but they have a remnant of truth,after see all the variants i  still consider the one of

Anora-Warden to be the one of  the best couple  on  the throne.

[Aren]

And regarding the landsmeet. Would it make him "mature" if he said "yes maam" all the time to the warden?
 

What makes him immature (but this works for Morrigan as well) is the fact that they are willing to let the whole world to burn if they don't get what they want,so i don't really see the strength of the whole "not being a drone of the Warden argument",not for Alistair and neither for Morrigan.

As i said for Alistair as a GW this is even more accentuated,a GW who refuse to remain during a blight,he could have find compromise,he was not forced to work with you or stay near to Loghain,he cloud have easley remain to work independently with Riordan,and not in the group anymore.

His last words however were i"'m no longer a GW"

if you don't give me what i want good bye and burn alongside to the blight,just like Morrigan.

 

This is immaturity at best......... i would say or betrayal at worst exactly like he said in DAII if this happen.

I will concede to him this, one of his qualities is to being always honest,unlike a certain witch who do not even wish to admit her fault in WH in front of undeniable accusations (non DR version)

[GoldenGail3]

... Sighs quietly.... I am not gonna do anything anymore... It's clear my simple statement caused grief.

[Aren]

... Sighs quietly.... I am not gonna do anything anymore... It's clear my simple statement caused grief.

Grief of what?

i putted a large  space between the response to your post and what was my thought which had nothing to do with your previous post

i don't like to make double post if the argument is similar

[GoldenGail3]

Grief of what?
i putted a large space between the response to your post and what was my thought which had nothing to do with your previous post
i don't like to make double post if the argument is similar

ALL I WANTED WAS TO TALK ABOUT ALISTAIRS POSSTIVE SIDE! But that isn't happening.