I don't think so. If you talk to him before the Landsmeet and ask whether he still doesn't wish to be king, he says he wants to be a Warden because that's something he thinks he's good at, that it's "something I can fight, something I can defeat" or something along those lines.
I edited a bit. What I'm saying is what's the point of sacrifice when he values nothing else to begin with. His life has no cost to him. It's so easy for him to throw it away.
I used to think keeping him a Warden was de facto the best choice for him, since he loved the Grey Wardens and never wanted to be king. But then, looking at the devs' in-game character descriptions for DAI, I started having second thoughts.
Basically, if Alistair cameos as King in DAI, he "remains earnest, wry, and self-deprecating." But if he cameos as a Grey Warden, he "remains wry and self-deprecating, but is a bit more world-weary than he was in DAO."
Now, that's interesting. Shouldn't it be the other way around? If he loves the Wardens but dreads being King, shouldn't the pressures of ruling make him more world-weary as King but still as spry and earnest as ever as a Warden? I wonder if this is some sort of cosmic joke the writers played on him; he dreaded being king because he thought it would entail something that doesn't and/or adores the Wardens because he's idealized them as something they aren't, but over time he found that being king was easier on his psyche, while life as a Warden was more trying and wearying than he thought.
What do y'all think?
I edited a bit. What I'm saying is what's the point of sacrifice when he values nothing else to begin with. His life has no cost to him. It's so easy for him to throw it away.
Just because he regrets not being there and just because he thinks stuff would go better if a more experienced Warden did the leading doesn't mean he's suicidal and it doesn't mean his life means nothing to him. With just Alistair and the Warden left, they basically make it up as they go because they're both new to the order and Alistair seems to realise that.
Not to even mention that it doesn't matter what his motivation to fight is. The important thing is that he does fight and get stuff done. It's not like the Wardens give a damn about whether you stay because you like the uniform or whatever as long as you keep doing good work. The work done itself means the Warden's sacrifice is worthwhile.
Nobody's arguing that he doesn't idolise Duncan. Because he does. Alistair has some major daddy issues and Duncan is the first person who actually wanted him around for whatever reason. He sees him as somebody who saved him and who saw something worthwhile in him when nobody else did and when everybody else just wanted to get rid of him or scoffed at him. You can see it as pathetic, but it doesn't make him or his life and deeds worthless.
Eh, I'm gonna post it anyway since I've already made it and I like what he says about being a Warden...
He seems pretty motivated to me.
Not for whatever reason.
According to The Calling, the main reason Duncan agreed to watch over Alistair was that he could relate to someone who was also a noble's bastard kid.
Thank you. I've never read the books and never will, so I just assumed he found him good Grey Warden material. I don't know much about Duncan besides what I know from the game, so it's good to know that there was more to it. Seems like Alistair had a point as to why Duncan had chosen him after all.
Eh, I'm gonna post it anyway since I've already made it and I like what he says about being a Warden...
https://youtu.be/tzxp9e53v6Y
He seems pretty motivated to me.
Well, I feel better about keeping him a Warden.
Thanks, guys! 
Eh, I'm gonna post it anyway since I've already made it and I like what he says about being a Warden...
He seems pretty motivated to me.
Alistair and my Female Amell are eating cheese somewhere in the aftermath of DAI;... Keeping him a Warden was a A+ choice on my part.
Anytime. Although... I'll never understand why he was made king in the default world state as well as the graphic novels.
First thought: Because he's an expy of Jon Snow, who is a popular choice by fans to be a runner for the title of "the prince that was promised."
Second thought: Because he's an expy of King Arthur, another noble-blooded but humbly-raised boy who became king, united and brought Saxon Briton (supposedly) into a Golden Age, then had sex with his half-sister Morgan La Fay (a crow-themed witch, not unlike Morrigan; who may or may not be Maric's daughter from an implied sexual encounter he may or may not have had with Flemeth when he went to visit her hut in The Stolen Throne), then his magically conceived incestuous bastard son returned as an adult and brought his downfall.
Final answer: I think it's just a story idea Gaider really loves exploring. Every now and again the authors develop favorite characters or story paths they just don't want to let go of. Alistair reluctantly becoming king and then wangsting about it. Leliana constantly vacillating between her idealistic religious zeal and ruthless bard bloodlust. You get the picture.
There doesn't need to be any bending. The Grey Wardens aren't meant to meddle in politics in the first place, so getting rid of the obstacles in the way of stopping the Blight (Loghain's bullshit) is enough. Ferelden already has a rightful ruler. It's not the Wardens' job make sure she's a good one or decide what they assume is "right" for Ferelden.
Yeah, I have to admit that was a large contributing factor to why, on my very first playthrough, I didn't make Alistair king and nor my elfy gal bann of the alienage. It was tempting, but on top of not wanting to crush Alistair's spirit and figuring my gal wouldn't live long enough to make a difference anyway, I kind of thought, "We're Wardens. We're not supposed to get involved in politics if it doesn't help stop the Blight."
In subsequent playthroughs (when my gals weren't conscientious about established rules), I thought it was kind of odd that no one ever points to Alistair (or Cousland) being a Grey Warden as a reason not to become king. A few characters protest on account of him being a bastard and untrained, but I'm surprised the "Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in politics" thing never came up.
Oh well.
Just because he regrets not being there and just because he thinks stuff would go better if a more experienced Warden did the leading doesn't mean he's suicidal and it doesn't mean his life means nothing to him. With just Alistair and the Warden left, they basically make it up as they go because they're both new to the order and Alistair seems to realise that.
Not to even mention that it doesn't matter what his motivation to fight is. The important thing is that he does fight and get stuff done. It's not like the Wardens give a damn about whether you stay because you like the uniform or whatever as long as you keep doing good work. The work done itself means the Warden's sacrifice is worthwhile.
Nobody's arguing that he doesn't idolise Duncan. Because he does. Alistair has some major daddy issues and Duncan is the first person who actually wanted him around for whatever reason. He sees him as somebody who saved him and who saw something worthwhile in him when nobody else did and when everybody else just wanted to get rid of him or scoffed at him. You can see it as pathetic, but it doesn't make him or his life and deeds worthless.
It's pathetic because it's only in his head. And if you were to have a daddy figure (which isn't always a bad thing in itself), at the very least get the know them first.
He needs to get to know a lot of things, in fact.
It's pathetic because it's only in his head. And if you were to have a daddy figure (which isn't always a bad thing in itself), at the very least get the know them first.
He didn't get a chance to know him better. He only had those six months which, apparently, were just enough to get the idea of him that he had and some of it might be his imagination as it often happens in the absence of somebody you idolise. Seems whatever love he got from Duncan, it was still more than most gave him. Eamon let him sleep with dogs, for gods' sake, and instead of showing some backbone when it was needed sent him to the Chantry when he was a little boy, just because there were rumours. Isolde treated him like dirt. (And Alistair doesn't even hold it against her or Eamon.) That's a boy that had no parents to begin with because his own father abandoned him and he doesn't even know his mother didn't die but did the same thing. He was abandoned and unwanted. Repeatedly. So, yeah, maybe, just maybe his priorities are a little messed up in this department. Big surprise.
He needs to get to know a lot of things, in fact.
He does. Most of the characters in the games do. In fact, most people much older than him in real life do. During the talk with the guardian of the ashes, if you're too hard on yourself, it's Alistair who tells you nobody's perfect. I think he has a point.
I mean, all right, you don't like him. And you don't like him for these reasons. It is your right, of course. But honestly, I'm quite surprised you're so adamant about this and so hard on him, yet somehow tolerate Isabela despite lying to you and betraying a whole city, thus helping cause death of many innocents, just because she thinks of nobody but herself. But Alistair's emotional issues are too much to deal with, even though he's otherwise doing his best and doesn't really impact anything negatively? I'm sincerely not sure I understand. I don't think Alistair's flawless, but I've seen you judge who you consider a man-child harsher than I've seen you judge an actual criminal and person of poor character. I'm not sure I will even be able to understand.
I suppose our opinions on the matter are bound to differ.
Yeah, I have to admit that was a large contributing factor to why, on my very first playthrough, I didn't make Alistair king and nor my elfy gal bann of the alienage. It was tempting, but on top of not wanting to crush Alistair's spirit and figuring my gal wouldn't live long enough to make a difference anyway, I kind of thought, "We're Wardens. We're not supposed to get involved in politics if it doesn't help stop the Blight."
In subsequent playthroughs (when my gals weren't conscientious about established rules), I thought it was kind of odd that no one ever points to Alistair (or Cousland) being a Grey Warden as a reason not to become king. A few characters protest on account of him being a bastard and untrained, but I'm surprised the "Wardens aren't supposed to get involved in politics" thing never came up.
Oh well.
Exactly. Riordan is right there and doesn't step in when two juniors break some of the core rules the Wardens have. Anora could bring it up as an argument, as well, but doesn't. I feel that the game itself really pushes the idea of putting Alistair on the throne. I always find it laughable how Eamon forces it so much the entire time, even after we save Anora, because at that point I'm sitting there already knowing what to do.
I get what his point was when we didn't have Anora at our side, but afterwards there's no reason to go through with the original plan. Well, I understand if some Wardens put their Wardening aside, job some of them might not have even wanted, and put Alistair on the throne because they genuinely believe he would be a better ruler and such. But from the Warden perspective, it doesn't matter who rules as long as they help stop the Blight.
Well, he's not wrong. Ten years later and Alistair still never learns how to handle politics.
"The talks between Ferelden and Orlais took place in Jader, and it... was not easy to keep matters from spiraling out of control. King Alistair is no diplomat, after all, and had little patience for the endless fanfare.
Thankfully, the Orlesians are uninterested in more war, and we were able to smooth the way toward an eventual peace treaty. The King sent along a sword that once belonged to the Ferelden hero King Calenhad, as thanks for what the Inquisition helped create."
I haven't actually used a worldstate with him as a king in DAI yet, so this is new for me.
Interesting. I'm not surprised, though. Anora had been raised in this environment since she was a little girl. From what we learn in the game, it was her pulling the strings while Cailan ruled in the first place. Alistair was always kept far away from the court and this sort of education, told it's not his place, so it's natural he has no idea how to do it. It's like putting a commoner on the throne and expecting him to know how to deal with law and politics. Being a good person means a lot, but it's not everything you need to be king. I assume that those ten years from the events of Origins, he's still learning.
I think he's doing it for the wrong reasons. He worships Duncan and the Wardens and thinks he should have died with them. He admits it himself and the Sacred Ashes spirit calls him out on it too. He seems to think he has nothing live to for... but one reason to die for. That's not good enough. What's the point of sacrifice when you sacrifice nothing. It's no high cost for him.
And not only that, but he's completely deluded about Duncan in the first place. He scoffs at Daveth being recruited because he's a thief, when Duncan is the same. He doesn't know anything about Duncan apparently. He built this idea of a hero when Duncan isn't quite that. And Alistair has only known him for 6 months, and treats him like a dad. It's pathetic. The guy needs to live his life and get his head out his ass. Maybe then he'll learn something.
There's nothing wrong with having a mentor no matter how long you've known him. They're Wardens, do you expect them to have tea parties together? Besides Duncan was the one who saved him from Chantry life and brought him to where he belongs. How can you not look up to the person that made your life better.
Most would suffer greatly if they'd lose someone close, and he didn't lose just Duncan you know. He is almost loyal to a fault, but what would you do in his place? Think "rather him than me"? Think it from his perspective. Of all the Wardens, why did he get to survive and not someone like Duncan? If you deeply care about someone you've lost you may even wish you'd taken his place. Surely you can understand.
There's nothing wrong with having a mentor no matter how long you've known him. They're Wardens, do you expect them to have tea parties together? Besides Duncan was the one who saved him from Chantry life and brought him to where he belongs. How can you not look up to the person that made your life better.
Most would suffer greatly if they'd lose someone close, and he didn't lose just Duncan you know. He is almost loyal to a fault, but what would you do in his place? Think "rather him than me"? Think it from his perspective. Of all the Wardens, why did he get to survive and not someone like Duncan? If you deeply care about someone you've lost you may even wish you'd taken his place. Surely you can understand.
This. And I also think they had some good times together in spite of the limited time together. I mean, Alistair describes how they tried to outdrink one of theirs and nobody could do it and Duncan found them later all passed out all over the place and laughed his ass off. Or the times older Wardens laughed at Alistair for wolfing down his dinners. They actually spent time together. They did also have fun. That's probably closest to real family Alistair had ever come. Hell, I think he even says something along those lines.
This. And I also think they had some good times together in spite of the limited time together. I mean, Alistair describes how they tried to outdrink one of theirs and nobody could do it and Duncan found them later all passed out all over the place and laughed his ass off. Or the times older Wardens laughed at Alistair for wolfing down his dinners. They did also have fun together. That's probably closest to real family Alistair had ever come. Hell, I think he even says something along those lines.
Oh yes I remember those great stories! He sure enjoyed his time with Duncan and the other Wardens before Ostagar. Also, you're right about the real family line although I can't remember exactly how it goes.
Oh yes I remember those great stories! He sure enjoyed his time with Duncan and the other Wardens before Ostagar. Also, you're right about the real family line although I can't remember exactly how it goes.
And that's why I keep saves all over the place. 
So, yeah, I'm not surprised he liked Duncan so much.
And that's why I keep saves all over the place.
So, yeah, I'm not surprised he liked Duncan so much.
Hey maybe you could make those videos public so, you know, in 5 10 years you could still find them easily. I'll just subscribe in case you do. Good stuff!
Hey maybe you could make those videos public so, you know, in 5 10 years you could still find them easily. I'll just subscribe in case you do. Good stuff!
Thank you. I suppose I can do that. I usually only make them when I want to show something to friends and such. I didn't think anybody would be interested in them. (And I might worry about being awkward, ahem.) But I guess there's no harm in making them available.
Thank you. I suppose I can do that. I usually only make them when I want to show something to friends and such. I didn't think anybody would be interested in them. (And I might worry about being awkward, ahem.) But I guess there's no harm in making them available.
Much appreciated 
Exactly. Riordan is right there and doesn't step in when two juniors break some of the core rules the Wardens have. Anora could bring it up as an argument, as well, but doesn't. I feel that the game itself really pushes the idea of putting Alistair on the throne. I always find it laughable how Eamon forces it so much the entire time, even after we save Anora, because at that point I'm sitting there already knowing what to do.
I get what his point was when we didn't have Anora at our side, but afterwards there's no reason to go through with the original plan. Well, I understand if some Wardens put their Wardening aside, job some of them might not have even wanted, and put Alistair on the throne because they genuinely believe he would be a better ruler and such. But from the Warden perspective, it doesn't matter who rules as long as they help stop the Blight.
First paragraph: Eeyup.
Second paragraph: For the most part I agree. I have some Wardens who have reason not to take the Warden Code too seriously and who want to crown him because they honestly think he'd be a better ruler. Or just because he deals with issues close to their heart. How Anora treats city elves under her rule certainly gives credence to any city elf of mine who wants someone to treat their people better. (You could argue that as a Warden it's not their job to care about that stuff anymore, but, as I imagine my Warden Tabris often tells people, "my tainted heart still beats with elven blood.")
But yeah, for the most part my first "canon" city elf gal didn't crown Alistair and didn't accept the title of bann herself partly because she thought they shouldn't as Wardens... and then she suffered major depression later when Queen Anora didn't help the elves like she promised, Bann Shianni found much opposition and got killed by a bigot several years later, Soris left the alienage to marry a human woman, etc. I'll admit the main reason she accepted becoming a Warden was to bring glory to her people, and use her new-found prestige to help elevate them. Then she let the opportunity slip by at the Landsmeet because of love (for Alistair) and duty (to the Wardens), and really kicked herself afterwards.
(It doesn't help that her answer to Queen Anora asking "What'll you do now?" at the Coronation was to focus her efforts on rebuilding the Grey Wardens, but then the Awakening slides revealed that since there was no more Blight or intelligent darkspawn there was no need to rebuild the Ferelden Grey Wardens, so Tabris and Alistair kind of puttered around Ferelden for several years. So she had time to kill but couldn't spend it saving the world or helping her people, and was forced to watch as humans continued to mistreat her people, but since she'd already assigned Anora and Shianni to the task she couldn't intervene and could only watch as they made things worse.)
So, have you guys ever read the graphic novels?
No. While I like Gaider's writing in regards to gaming, his style for books is not my cup of tea. I tried reading the Calling, got about 20 pages in and gave up. I need to have a writer kind of grab me by the seat of the pants and pull me into his world. And Gaider just didn't do that for me. It could have also been the subject matter of the book itself as I am not that fond of prequels, but I didn't have much inkling to read the comics after trying to read the Calling.
He is the writer of some of my favorite characters, so I know he has it in him to create wonderful, interesting characters, I just don't dig his writing style.
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