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[tuppence95]

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

I haven't played it again since I found out how to get my DR flags set correctly.  But from what I've seen, yes, it was kinda unfulfilling.  I don't think I'll be getting much closure out of it.

ToP

Modifié par tuppence95, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Gilsa]

With all due respect, I disagree about the cruelty of knifing Morrigan in the DLC. People execute Alistair for political reasons rather than show compassion to someone they may have befriended. Morrigan had ulterior motives for tagging along with the warden and even asked the warden to kill Flemeth to serve her own end, but felt she owed nothing to the warden for the simple reason of the warden not wanting to do the ritual. Morrigan stole a book that was not hers and was discovered messing with a powerful mirror. She is linked with Flemeth. What proof is there that she isn't working with Flemeth on some level and isn't being upfront about that? She is a manipulative woman. It can be folly to let her walk away.

I guess it might not be so bad if your warden never befriended her or romanced her, but if they did... your warden is pretty much the first and only person she's trusted and opened up to in her entire life.  The look on her face when she realizes what's happening and is trying to make sense of it is just gut wrenching to me.

Same thing can be said of Alistair's execution when he realizes that his fellow warden has turned on him. Zevran's execution is the kindest one since he wanted to die in the first place. Our feelings for the NPCs colors our perception of the deaths they recieve. I thought Morrigan got the nicest shank scene because she looked beautiful and mostly shocked. I'm pretty sure she's fine though.

It's cute to see some Morrigan fans hope that she comes back to have a big last laugh at the warden because she's special enough to be the only NPC who doesn't get to die. /eye roll (HOW DARE YOU HURT MY BABYYYYYYYY) I didn't do the dark ritual. I owed Morrigan nothing. I killed Flemeth for her and got her the book and she didn't trust me enough to tell me why she wanted the dark ritual and flat out told me she dd not owe me an explanation in Witch Hunt. She abandoned me right when I needed her the most to fight the archdemon (just like some people consider Alistair to be abandoning the Grey Wardens if Loghain is spared). To paint my actions as being borne of cruelty or heartlessness is just silly.

Modifié par Gilsa, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Brockololly]

Axekix wrote...
I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

Yup- Witch Hunt should have been part of one last expansion pack to wrap up all things Origins.

As for the murder knifing Morrigan deal- thats just cold. I guess it comes down to whether you trust Flemeth or Morrigan though- which is the lesser of 2 evils? As Flemeth is definitely out there and even if you murder knifed Morrigan, I'm guessing all you did was ****** her off and give her something to brood over in Mirror World.

Hell, if you did the DR and knifed her, she still has the Old God Baby to train and teach- you think she'll be teaching him how lovely and wonderful humans are after she just got knifed? Even if your character didn't like her, I think knifing her is just a bit gratuitous and self indulging and will only serve to possibly make things worse in the end.

[Yankee23]

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

I wasn't expecting much from the dlc in terms of having Alistair being present... although I would have liked it. But I at least expected a mention from Morrigan. As it was the dialogue was too generic, it would work for a male warden who did the dr or if Loghain did. She should have mentioned Alistair, Loghain or at least made it clear she knew that warden was female. As for it being the last of the dlc it was a big disappointment.

[Axekix]

Gilsa wrote...

With all due respect, I disagree about the cruelty of knifing Morrigan in the DLC. People execute Alistair for political reasons rather than show compassion to someone they may have befriended. Morrigan had ulterior motives for tagging along with the warden and even asked the warden to kill Flemeth to serve her own end, but felt she owed nothing to the warden for the simple reason of the warden not wanting to do the ritual. Morrigan stole a book that was not hers and was discovered messing with a powerful mirror. She is linked with Flemeth. What proof is there that she isn't working with Flemeth on some level and isn't being upfront about that? She is a manipulative woman. It can be folly to let her walk away.

But again, there's really no proof of any of those suspicions.  In order to rationalize it that way one would need to be fairly certain Morrigan had something very bad planned, given the implications of killing her, no?

I guess it might not be so bad if your warden never befriended her or romanced her, but if they did... your warden is pretty much the first and only person she's trusted and opened up to in her entire life.  The look on her face when she realizes what's happening and is trying to make sense of it is just gut wrenching to me.

Same thing can be said of Alistair's execution when he realizes that his fellow warden has turned on him.

I disagree.  Alistair's execution isn't at the Warden's hands, or even the Warden's request.  It happens only if you don't intercede.  That's different than outright killing him in cold blood.

It's cute to see some Morrigan fans hope that she comes back to have a big last laugh at the warden because she's special enough to be the only NPC who doesn't get to die. /eye roll (HOW DARE YOU HURT MY BABYYYYYYYY) I didn't do the dark ritual. I owed Morrigan nothing. I killed Flemeth for her and got her the book and she didn't trust me enough to tell me why she wanted the dark ritual and flat out told me she dd not owe me an explanation in Witch Hunt. She abandoned me right when I needed her the most to fight the archdemon (just like some people consider Alistair to be abandoning the Grey Wardens if Loghain is spared). To paint my actions as being borne of cruelty or heartlessness is just silly.

Well if you denied her the DR, didn't romance or even trust her, I'm curious why you would be tracking her down in the first place.  Distrust certainly doesn't seem reason enough to hunt her down and kill her imo.

[Axekix]

Yankee23 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

I wasn't expecting much from the dlc in terms of having Alistair being present... although I would have liked it. But I at least expected a mention from Morrigan. As it was the dialogue was too generic, it would work for a male warden who did the dr or if Loghain did. She should have mentioned Alistair, Loghain or at least made it clear she knew that warden was female. As for it being the last of the dlc it was a big disappointment.

That's the impression I got.  I haven't done it with my CEF, but it seems like Fem Wardens got the short end of the stick with this DLC.  As a rabid Morri-fan (obviously) it's nice to be somewhat catered to, but I feel like they should have fleshed out the other possibilities better.

[phaonica]

Gilsa wrote...

With all due respect, I disagree about the cruelty of knifing Morrigan in the DLC. ...

I agree with your post, Gilsa. A lot of people have argued that there is no reason to mistrust Morrigan and the DR. I think she gives you quite a lot of reason, just in the fact that she refuses to tell you anything.

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. Without him there it was more like my PC says in the beginning. I'm concerned for a friend, and happy that she's ok. And that she's found, seemingly, a way to escape Flemeth. It would have had alot more meaning WITH him there. Even if he only showed up as you enter the last area, and was there for the end.

Unrelated: But did I see a mod that has Alistair comforting the HNF after killing Howe?

[tuppence95]

Axekix wrote...
Well if you denied her the DR, didn't romance or even trust her, I'm curious why you would be tracking her down in the first place.  Distrust certainly doesn't seem reason enough to hunt her down and kill her imo.

I was wondering that too.  They said WH would bring closure for our wardens.  They didn't say it would only bring closure for the wardens who did the DR.  But those wardens found themselves in this scenario where they are tracking Morrigan in order to .... return that gold necklace they borrowed from her?    That loose end really bothered me.

[tuppence95]

Lady Jess wrote...
Unrelated: But did I see a mod that has Alistair comforting the HNF after killing Howe?

cmessaz is working on origin-specific scenes with Alistair.  It's in beta testing now.  It's beautiful.  

[Gilsa]

Axekix wrote...
But again, there's really no proof of any of those suspicions.  In order to rationalize it that way one would need to be fairly certain Morrigan had something very bad planned, given the implications of killing her, no?

Wanting the soul of an Old God is a pretty big deal. Withholding information until it serves her purpose? Yeaaah. Not exactly a team player.

I disagree.  Alistair's execution isn't at the Warden's hands, or even the Warden's request.  It happens only if you don't intercede.  That's different than outright killing him in cold blood.

Nobody could pin anything on Tony Soprano either.

Well if you denied her the DR, didn't romance or even trust her, I'm curious why you would be tracking her down in the first place.  Distrust certainly doesn't seem reason enough to hunt her down and kill her imo.

I was the Grey Warden commander and wanted to know why this ritual was capable of stopping the Blight or how she got her hands on this knowledge. The archdemon is what destroys civilization and she wanted its soul. I wanted answers. She was a security risk. If going after Flemeth was an option,  that would have been on the agenda, too. I did not spare the architect or the mother in Awakening for similar reasons.

[Yankee23]

Lady Jess wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. Without him there it was more like my PC says in the beginning. I'm concerned for a friend, and happy that she's ok. And that she's found, seemingly, a way to escape Flemeth. It would have had alot more meaning WITH him there. Even if he only showed up as you enter the last area, and was there for the end.

Unrelated: But did I see a mod that has Alistair comforting the HNF after killing Howe?

If he wasn't a going to be party member, I would have liked to see the warden go home to him at the end, even if it was just a cutscene with no dialogue. Or to any other non-Morrigan LI if they so chose at the end of Origins. Then everyone would have been happy.

Edit: I'll just wait for them to release the dlc resources for the toolset and Cmessaz takes care of this for us. A sweet homecoming where we can all image the conversation that works best for us.

Modifié par Yankee23, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[inclemency]

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

After five playthroughs, it's still bugged, and yes, I followed directions on which save to choose, etc. etc.  All I get is bugged endings and I'm pretty sore about it....with MCousland twice, FCousland twice, and a F Mage still in a relationship with Alistair.  I'm not a happy camper about any of it, and can't even settle in to continue to play one of my ongoing DA:O games.

Just call me grumpy 

Modifié par inclemency, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:37 .

[Gilsa]

phaonica wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

With all due respect, I disagree about the cruelty of knifing Morrigan in the DLC. ...

I agree with your post, Gilsa. A lot of people have argued that there is no reason to mistrust Morrigan and the DR. I think she gives you quite a lot of reason, just in the fact that she refuses to tell you anything.

Thanks. For what it's worth, I do have a male warden that went through the mirror with her because he saw things differently and my orlesian warden, while she got no answers from Morrigan, let Morrigan go because she had no proof one way or another if Morrigan was a threat.

[Yankee23]

Gilsa wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

With all due respect, I disagree about the cruelty of knifing Morrigan in the DLC. ...

I agree with your post, Gilsa. A lot of people have argued that there is no reason to mistrust Morrigan and the DR. I think she gives you quite a lot of reason, just in the fact that she refuses to tell you anything.

Thanks. For what it's worth, I do have a male warden that went through the mirror with her because he saw things differently and my orlesian warden, while she got no answers from Morrigan, let Morrigan go because she had no proof one way or another if Morrigan was a threat.

Was there any explaination at all as to why a Orlesian (or a new character for that matter) would be looking for Morrigan?

[Addai]

Siduri wrote...

Thanks for the nice comments everyone! I'm so glad to have found a thread full of so many people who understand my obsession with Alistair!

Warden Commander ending?  Oh man, pass the tissues.  And like you, I wanted to fireball every last damn one of them in the post-coronation hall.

Here's some inspiration for a new playthrough. 

[tuppence95]

inclemency wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

After five playthroughs, it's still bugged, and yes, I followed directions on which save to choose, etc. etc.  All I get is bugged endings and I'm pretty sore about it....with MCousland twice, FCousland twice, and a F Mage still in a relationship with Alistair.  I'm not a happy camper about any of it, and can't even settle in to continue to play one of my ongoing DA:O games.

Just call me grumpy 

The saved game thing does work for me.  I can tell by the dialog choices with dog at the beginning.  I now have the option to ask dog if he'll help get the baby back.  But after last night, I'm feeling a little soured on the dlc.  I'm putting it aside.

I decided not to play my CE.  I made a dalish mage, and I'm playing her with Alistair.  Maybe they'll have the warden rebuilding ending.  With my male blood mage, my male Cousland and my teenage DN, it's been too long since I've played an Alistair game.

[cmessaz]

Wow, welcome back Lady J! Been a while!



Drive by Alistair pic.

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

I did it twice, got the bug on the first one which was really disappointing, then had my canon elf mage whose flag was set correctly.  It was definitely a hollow place not having even a mention of Alistair, but I thought the end was moving and I had fun with the other stuff.  It doesn't seem like it should be the end, but with all the problems with the DLCs it probably is best they do move on.  Morrigan is my 2nd favorite character, prolly, so I'm glad we got this at least.

Edit:  Oh, and I'm halfway through with my male PC who romanced Morrigan and judging by the opening dialogue with Dog, he's not bugged.  I hope not, poor guy.  He'll be going through the mirror with her.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[errant_knight]

inclemency wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

After five playthroughs, it's still bugged, and yes, I followed directions on which save to choose, etc. etc.  All I get is bugged endings and I'm pretty sore about it....with MCousland twice, FCousland twice, and a F Mage still in a relationship with Alistair.  I'm not a happy camper about any of it, and can't even settle in to continue to play one of my ongoing DA:O games.

Just call me grumpy 

I got the bugged ending, so no mention of the baby. Alistair should absolutely have been there and been able to say something about it, maybe asking if it was human, all right, or dangerous. It's pretty strange that my PC went after Morrigan without any convo about why the father wasn't. Hadley should also have asked if he should call my PC warden, or whatever the consort gets called. People were pretty casual about the wife of the king dropping by. They threw in banter nods to previous games, but didn't bother showing any choices in terms of actual interaction.
I think they probably did it because if the PC and Alistair were united, and none of the other LI companions were, people would have been irked.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:50 .

[cmessaz]

errant_knight wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

After five playthroughs, it's still bugged, and yes, I followed directions on which save to choose, etc. etc.  All I get is bugged endings and I'm pretty sore about it....with MCousland twice, FCousland twice, and a F Mage still in a relationship with Alistair.  I'm not a happy camper about any of it, and can't even settle in to continue to play one of my ongoing DA:O games.

Just call me grumpy 

I got the bugged ending, so no mention of the baby. Alistair should absolutely have been there and been able to say something about it, maybe asking if it was human, all right, or dangerous. It's pretty strange that my PC went after Morrigan without any convo about why the father wasn't. Hadley should also have asked if he should call my PC warden, or whatever the consort gets called. People were pretty casual about the wife of the king dropping by. They threw in banter nods to previous games, but didn't bother showing any choices in terms of actual interaction.

Yeah, "as warden commander you are free to walk around the first floor." So being consort gives me no priveledges eh? But it was an ok dlc. Better than some previous ones.

[Lady Jess]

cmessaz wrote...

Wow, welcome back Lady J! Been a while!

Drive by Alistair pic.

Thanks Cmess!

[errant_knight]

cmessaz wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

After five playthroughs, it's still bugged, and yes, I followed directions on which save to choose, etc. etc.  All I get is bugged endings and I'm pretty sore about it....with MCousland twice, FCousland twice, and a F Mage still in a relationship with Alistair.  I'm not a happy camper about any of it, and can't even settle in to continue to play one of my ongoing DA:O games.

Just call me grumpy 

I got the bugged ending, so no mention of the baby. Alistair should absolutely have been there and been able to say something about it, maybe asking if it was human, all right, or dangerous. It's pretty strange that my PC went after Morrigan without any convo about why the father wasn't. Hadley should also have asked if he should call my PC warden, or whatever the consort gets called. People were pretty casual about the wife of the king dropping by. They threw in banter nods to previous games, but didn't bother showing any choices in terms of actual interaction.

Yeah, "as warden commander you are free to walk around the first floor." So being consort gives me no priveledges eh? But it was an ok dlc. Better than some previous ones.

Agreed, except for the truly staggering bugs.

[cmessaz]

Yeah, guess I'm just used to the bugs in their stuff. Which is actually quite sad.

[Gilsa]

Yankee23 wrote...

Was there any explaination at all as to why a Orlesian (or a new character for that matter) would be looking for Morrigan?

To investigate her role in the death of the archdemon. It's pretty vague and when the Orlesian meets her, there is no mention of a dark ritual or a baby so it's unclear what exactly did happen. Morrigan warns about Flemeth and advises the Orlesian to warn the other wardens to "watch for what is to come." The Orlesian does have the option to ask who Flemeth is or if she had anything to do with the Blight.