39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Axekix]

Gilsa wrote...

Axekix wrote...
But again, there's really no proof of any of those suspicions.  In order to rationalize it that way one would need to be fairly certain Morrigan had something very bad planned, given the implications of killing her, no?

Wanting the soul of an Old God is a pretty big deal. Withholding information until it serves her purpose? Yeaaah. Not exactly a team player.

I disagree.  Alistair's execution isn't at the Warden's hands, or even the Warden's request.  It happens only if you don't intercede.  That's different than outright killing him in cold blood.

Nobody could pin anything on Tony Soprano either.

So you trusted her enough to go through with the DR, then, after she saves your life with it, she's too big of a threat to let live?  That seems contradictory.

Well if you denied her the DR, didn't romance or even trust her, I'm curious why you would be tracking her down in the first place.  Distrust certainly doesn't seem reason enough to hunt her down and kill her imo.

I was the Grey Warden commander and wanted to know why this ritual was capable of stopping the Blight or how she got her hands on this knowledge. The archdemon is what destroys civilization and she wanted its soul. I wanted answers. She was a security risk.

I doubt we'll agree on this.  Killing her because she may become a "security risk" just isn't a philosophy I could get behind.

She's not a Darkspawn who has tried to capture/kill you like the Architect or the Mother.  She's someone who's helped you, befriended you and saved your life, even if she was working towards her own ends, and someone who I believe genuinely cared for the Warden as a friend or LI.  Her refusal to talk doesn't just negate everything up to that point imo.

[errant_knight]

Gilsa wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

Was there any explaination at all as to why a Orlesian (or a new character for that matter) would be looking for Morrigan?

To investigate her role in the death of the archdemon. It's pretty vague and when the Orlesian meets her, there is no mention of a dark ritual or a baby so it's unclear what exactly did happen. Morrigan warns about Flemeth and advises the Orlesian to warn the other wardens to "watch for what is to come." The Orlesian does have the option to ask who Flemeth is or if she had anything to do with the Blight.

Hmmm.... Maybe this means the wardens will have a role in DA3.

[Addai]

Supplying a ToP for Axe before he posts something heinous.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do those of you who had a Fem Warden like the way WH played out? Specifically those who had Alistair do the DR.

I've only done it with my MCousland, but it seems like Bioware kind of dropped the ball leaving Alistair out of this one.

I did it twice, got the bug on the first one which was really disappointing, then had my canon elf mage whose flag was set correctly.  It was definitely a hollow place not having even a mention of Alistair, but I thought the end was moving and I had fun with the other stuff.  It doesn't seem like it should be the end, but with all the problems with the DLCs it probably is best they do move on.  Morrigan is my 2nd favorite character, prolly, so I'm glad we got this at least.

Yeah, it's kinda nice to have closure (kind of...) but with the new storylines it opens up it's kind of a weird place to stop.

Edit:  Oh, and I'm halfway through with my male PC who romanced Morrigan and judging by the opening dialogue with Dog, he's not bugged.  I hope not, poor guy.  He'll be going through the mirror with her.

Haha my Cousland took the plunge too!  TBH I'm half expecting Bioware to kill him off in mirror-land.  But He got to end it with Morrigan so I can't be too upset.  This does make me a little more open to moving on to DA2.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

Supplying a ToP for Axe before he posts something heinous.

:lol:

That reminds me, my mega Alistair gif is still a work in progress.  I should transfer it over from my old HD.

[Yankee23]

The discussion has been on such a roll tonight, we have been a little light on Alistair.

[Lady Jess]

Lyra, Alistair and Daveth pose for a book cover...





Lyra is not yet impressed by Ser Templar...





REALLY not impressed...





I swear every time I see her face she's got this "I am surrounded by idiot shemlen...greeeaaaat." look going on.

[Yankee23]

Lady Jess wrote...

Lyra, Alistair and Daveth pose for a book cover...
[snip]

Lyra is not yet impressed by Ser Templar...
[snip]

REALLY not impressed...
[snip]

I swear every time I see her face she's got this "I am surrounded by idiot shemlen...greeeaaaat." look going on.

Lol, those are funny. Great looking elf, btw.

[Zjarcal]

Axekix wrote...

Gilsa wrote...
It's cute to see some Morrigan fans hope that she comes back to have a big last laugh at the warden because she's special enough to be the only NPC who doesn't get to die. /eye roll (HOW DARE YOU HURT MY BABYYYYYYYY) I didn't do the dark ritual. I owed Morrigan nothing. I killed Flemeth for her and got her the book and she didn't trust me enough to tell me why she wanted the dark ritual and flat out told me she dd not owe me an explanation in Witch Hunt. She abandoned me right when I needed her the most to fight the archdemon (just like some people consider Alistair to be abandoning the Grey Wardens if Loghain is spared). To paint my actions as being borne of cruelty or heartlessness is just silly. 

Well if you denied her the DR, didn't romance or even trust her, I'm curious why you would be tracking her down in the first place.  Distrust certainly doesn't seem reason enough to hunt her down and kill her imo.

This is really the problem for me. I can sort of understand it if you did the DR and feel that you opened a big can of worms and now you want to try and rectify that. I still find it cold and cruel considering the child will become an orphan and truth to be told, no one placed a gun to your head to agree with the DR. You could've just say no. So while I see some logic in that reasoning, the Warden's still very much at fault for the DR taking place and gutting Morrigan just because they're having doubts is cold (but again, I can at least see some logic in that reasoning).

But if you didn't do the DR, why look for her in the first place? Assuming you're doing it simply to help Ariane, what exactly is the reason to attempt to kill Morrigan other than revenge? Some say that Morrigan abandoning the Warden for refusing the DR is a betrayal. And what about all the help she gave before this? Surely it counts for something, right? You could say that if you killed Flemeth for her, you're both even, but there's no denying that Morrigan played her part in helping defeat the Blight.

Look, I'm not denying people's right to roleplay their characters however they want. If you feel your character wants to kill Morrigan, fine. What I'm saying is that in my view a character who "kills" her, is cold and cruel.

And by the way this is the Alistair thread so I'm going off topic here...

ALISTAIR!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gilsa wrote...

With all due respect, I disagree about the cruelty of knifing Morrigan in the DLC.
/snip

And I agree with you. There might be reasons as to why some PCs would want her dead. Of course if the only reason is "because I don't like her", then it's petty. But there are valid reasons for trying to kill her, even if it's likely going to only ****** her off.

And if Morrigan turns out to be the only person who can defeat Flemeth, whom is the real threat, then that decision might be regarded in retrospect as the wrong one. But in the moment, you don't really know that and it depends on whether you trust her or not.

So while my canon would never do that, I can think imagine characters that would want to.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:21 .

[Siduri]

Addai67 wrote...

Warden Commander ending?  Oh man, pass the tissues.  And like you, I wanted to fireball every last damn one of them in the post-coronation hall.

All through Awakenings and the rest of the DLC, whenever anyone called me "The Hero of Ferelden" I snarled at the screen, "That's Alistair." It really kind of sucks that the boon I asked for was that the sacrifice of the Wardens not be forgotten, and yet everybody's all like, "Ali-who now?"

Here's some inspiration for a new playthrough. 

What a lovely image!

[Merilsell]

Lady Jess wrote...
I swear every time I see her face she's got this "I am surrounded by idiot shemlen...greeeaaaat." look going on.

I think that is a basic requirement as a Dalish. It's hard not to do that, really. Part of their charm  As for me, I'm pretty much sure that my Dalish Lenya is already the unmatched queen of eye- rolling... and they are still at their first treaty.

[tuppence95]

Lady Jess wrote...

Lyra, Alistair and Daveth pose for a book cover...
*snip*
I swear every time I see her face she's got this "I am surrounded by idiot shemlen...greeeaaaat." look going on.

Beautiful elf!  I love her eyes.

[Gilsa]

@Axekix -- I've said this a few times, but I'm not sure if you're catching it. I did not do the dark ritual.



@Zjarcal -- I answered that question on page 162 on the last post.



I get both of your objections, I really do, and I sympathize. Maybe given enough time, you'll be able to see it from my perspective. I could very well end up regretting it. The blood mage in Warden's Keep is upfront about his goals even though his methods are unethical. Morrigan simply won't share any information. Knowledge of the dark ritual is powerful stuff and why won't she share this with the Grey Wardens? That knowledge could help us with future Blights, but she wishes to retain that information for her own means. Conclusions, one way or another, must be drawn and acted upon. Letting her walk away is like saying "oh, well, I let Anora kill Alistair so it's not MY fault if anything happens." It would be my fault if I let her walk away while I could do something about it. Simple.

[Monica21]

Lady Jess wrote...

Lyra, Alistair and Daveth pose for a book cover...

I am jealous of your ability to create such a gorgeous elf.

[Axekix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And if Morrigan turns out to be the only person who can defeat Flemeth, whom is the real threat, then that decision might be regarded in retrospect as the wrong one. But in the moment, you don't really know that and it depends on whether you trust her or not.

I don't think it's really a matter of trust.  Morrigan has done nothing to harm you or any of your companions, made no threats to anyone, and if you did the DR, saved your life by means of a ritual you agreed to.  To be willing to gamble with her life and the life of her child based on absolutely nothing (and yes going into this DLC you have no proof of any misdeeds on Morrigan's part) isn't a valid reason as far as I'm concerned.

[Lady Jess]

@Yankee thanks!

@Tuppence thanks, the eyes were inspired by The Stolen Throne. Gaider mentioned one of the dalish having violet eyes, and I went *oooo!!!*

@Merilsell You're probably right...lol! And I don't think Lyra could eye roll as much as Lenya for sure. Princess eye roll MAYBE but Lenya is the undisputed queen. Lyra may be more "OMFG REALLY???!!"

I think Alistair might grow on her. Some day. Eventually. Wayyyy in the future.

[Axekix]

Gilsa wrote...

@Axekix -- I've said this a few times, but I'm not sure if you're catching it. I did not do the dark ritual.

Actually I addressed that earlier as well.  If she doesn't have the God baby she's even less of a potential risk, which makes hunting her down and killing her even less plausible imo.

Gilsa wrote...
 Conclusions, one way or another, must be drawn
and acted upon. Letting her walk away is like saying "oh, well, I let
Anora kill Alistair so it's not MY fault if anything happens." It would
be my fault if I let her walk away while I could do something about it.
Simple.

That is presupposing she is actually guilty of plotting something evil, which is the crux of the argument, no?

Modifié par Axekix, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:36 .

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

With all due respect, I disagree about the cruelty of knifing Morrigan in the DLC.
/snip

And I agree with you. There might be reasons as to why some PCs would want her dead. Of course if the only reason is "because I don't like her", then it's petty. But there are valid reasons for trying to kill her, even if it's likely going to only ****** her off.

And if Morrigan turns out to be the only person who can defeat Flemeth, whom is the real threat, then that decision might be regarded in retrospect as the wrong one. But in the moment, you don't really know that and it depends on whether you trust her or not.

So while my canon would never do that, I can think imagine characters that would want to.  

*is impressed.*

Re: unimpressed Dalish lass.
I'm sure that they don't have separate animations, but I could swear my female Cousland never looks at him like that! It's pretty funny.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:37 .

[Lady Jess]

Monica21 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Lyra, Alistair and Daveth pose for a book cover...

I am jealous of your ability to create such a gorgeous elf.

lol thanks! They were so hard to get the hang of, I probably can't do it again, I just reuse this morph with varying hair/eye/tattoos (my two city elves use it too...I'm lazy). Dwarves are even worse! I think they were drinking bongwater when they set up the elves and dwarves character creation. Humans were so easy in comparison.

[Zjarcal]

Gilsa wrote...

@Axekix -- I've said this a few times, but I'm not sure if you're catching it. I did not do the dark ritual.

@Zjarcal -- I answered that question on page 162 on the last post.

I get both of your objections, I really do, and I sympathize. Maybe given enough time, you'll be able to see it from my perspective. I could very well end up regretting it. The blood mage in Warden's Keep is upfront about his goals even though his methods are unethical. Morrigan simply won't share any information. Knowledge of the dark ritual is powerful stuff and why won't she share this with the Grey Wardens? That knowledge could help us with future Blights, but she wishes to retain that information for her own means. Conclusions, one way or another, must be drawn and acted upon. Letting her walk away is like saying "oh, well, I let Anora kill Alistair so it's not MY fault if anything happens." It would be my fault if I let her walk away while I could do something about it. Simple.

Yeah, just read that post, I missed it.

I'd like to apologize if it feels like we're ganging up on you. I realize it may look that way and that surely wasn't my intention. I hate it when people tell me how to play my game and I'd hate it even more if all of a sudden I'm doing the same thing.

Who knows, maybe it's the way the Morrigan "death" scene plays out that makes it look so cold and brutal. It's kind of like when I once executed Alistair (for testing purposes, it wasn't something that actually made it into my game) I felt terrible when I got his gear back at Arl Eamon's estate.

I guess I'm just not good at dealing with the execution of companions (except Wynne, but then again, my PC killed her before she became a companion).

[KnightofPhoenix]

Axekix wrote...
I don't think it's really a matter of trust.  Morrigan has done nothing to harm you or any of your companions, made no threats to anyone, and if you did the DR, saved your life by means of a ritual you agreed to.  To be willing to gamble with her life and the life of her child based on absolutely nothing (and yes going into this DLC you have no proof of any misdeeds on Morrigan's part) isn't a valid reason as far as I'm concerned.

Gilsa already said she didn't do the DR. So she doesn't have the child in that case.
The decision can be based on a percieved attempt to manipulate you (I disagree that she tried to manipulate, but depends on perspective) and on withholding vital information and trying to do something that might be percieved as too dangerous (ritual, playing with Tevinter mirrors). Or that she might be working for Flemeth and is trying to trick you.  

I am not saying you are wrong nor am I trying to convince you of anything. A far as you are concerned, these are not valid reasons and that's ok. As far as others go, they can be seen as valid.
I would not choose that choice at all, but I recognise that some might have valid reasons to do so.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...
*is impressed.*

I am not a hypocrit. If I say all choices are valid depending on perspective and character, then I mean it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 septembre 2010 - 03:40 .

[Addai]

If DahliaLynn is reading, I thought you might like a YouTube comment on the first night elf scene:
"Omg........ I'm speechless, that was really beautiful....... and so HOT! <3"

Hehe.  I like the YouTube comments, they're often people who don't post here so you get reactions from others who've played the game but aren't jaded specialists like we are.

[Lady Jess]

Axekix wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

@Axekix -- I've said this a few times, but I'm not sure if you're catching it. I did not do the dark ritual.

Actually I addressed that earlier as well.  If she doesn't have the God baby she's even less of a potential risk, which makes hunting her down and killing her even less plausible imo.

Or maybe not. One could think "hmm, she didn't get what she wanted from me, one she called a FRIEND yet was willing to lie and hide vitally important information from me to attempt to get it. What MORE is she willing to do to achieve her end, and to whom? and what happens to someone she doesn't consider a friend that refuses?"   In that case you could be thinking you've unleashed an angry (and she WAS very angry if refused) possible loose canon on potential innocent victims. How far  will she go to get what she wants? Better to end the threat now, than regret it later.