39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Jess]

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

Check out Improved Romance Scenes and Fixes -Alistair
http://social.biowar...m/project/2573/

Aha! I was still running CRS 2.5. Shows how long it's been since I played eh? I can't access the first night project though.

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

phaonica wrote...
You know for a DLC that was clearly meant primarily to add to the Morrigan romance, I'm surprised they decided to make this scene as well as they did.

Yea I know. I initially thought I liked tragedy way too much for my own health to find that scene....good.
Following her into the mirror was nice too, but it lacked that...I don't know, dramatic feel to it. From the music of the party camp that reminds you of when she was with you, to your stern face, to her shocked expression. It was a powerful scene. I think that's the word.

 

Yeah, I was impressed. Most of the murderknife scenes in Origins are borderline comedic. This one wasn't comedic at all. Edit: Really I wasn't expecting a murderknife scene at all. It said "attack her" so I thought it would put me into combat with her, or that she'd just take one step back into the portal and get away.

Modifié par phaonica, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:09 .

[mellifera]

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Check out this wonderful quote from a fellow poster about why he "killed" Morrigan in WH:

DrRockso1551 wrote...
I killed Morrigan because it was funny to me i like to do bad things. And the kill scene was great like 300 kick into the portal

At least he had fun!

Oh my...
file:///C:/Users/C.J/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png
One of DA2's target audience.

Hey!

Also, I've been irrevocably spoilered for WH. I wish I had my computer

Modifié par yukidama, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[phaonica]

yukidama wrote...

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

One of DA2's target audience.

Hey!

I had hoped that WH would give me the reason why my warden *wouldn't* show up in DA2, but instead it did the opposite.

Oh well. I'm ready to accept DA2 for whatever it is. Bring it on.

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

OfficerDonNZ wrote...

Ok dumb question for everyone. How the heck do you link/post screenshots and such? I've never quite figured that out. I had a hard enough time getting my sig to work. ugh.

You need a pic URL and you post it in between [ img ] and [ /img ], taking out the extra spaces there.

'ed by my Dalish sister

If you put your pics on photobucket, you can just drag it into your post. But it has to be a regular post, not a quick post, and you have to drag the full sized photobucket picture not the thumbnail.

[mellifera]

phaonica wrote...

yukidama wrote...

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

One of DA2's target audience.

Hey!

I had hoped that WH would give me the reason why my warden *wouldn't* show up in DA2, but instead it did the opposite.

Oh well. I'm ready to accept DA2 for whatever it is. Bring it on.

Heh, yeah. I just get really annoyed at the implication that anyone who might enjoy and is interested in DA2 is a mindless idiot who rejoices in killing for the sake of killing (because DA2 won't have a story and isn't being written by the same people and you couldn't be an evil killing machine in Origins). Well, you may already know how I feel from my hissy fit the other day, I have a very bad tendency to not stay mad at people for more than like, an hour. Heh. :whistle:

[OfficerDonNZ]

Heh, easy they say. Well I think I've figured it out so here goes

Mira, my canon HNF rogue and Alistair looking very serious.

social.bioware.com/2918/albums/12441/13638802

Mira is currently working her way through Awakaning.

When I get a good pic of Nathyrra my dark elf mage I'll post one

Ok you should be able to get to the pic now Not quite want I wanted but still.

Modifié par OfficerDonNZ, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:42 .

[Zjarcal]

@OfficerDonnNZ:

Are you sure you have the proper link for the picture? I tried copying the link from your post and I get a 404. Seems your DA album is giving you messed up links.

You could also try uploading the images to ImageShack or PhotoBucket and link them from there.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[Addai]

Sandtigress wrote...

Put img tags, [ IMG ] and [ /IMG ] on either side of your picture link, minus the spaces! Easy peasy. :-)

Sandi I re-ran Idun in the ruins and she got nothin'.  It must be the mage mod.  I'd re-do it with my Dalish rogue, but I"m tired of Witch Hunt at this point.  Does Ariane talk to you as you're first entering the ruins, like she does with a Morrigan romance-r?

[errant_knight]

yukidama wrote...

phaonica wrote...

yukidama wrote...

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

One of DA2's target audience.

Hey!

I had hoped that WH would give me the reason why my warden *wouldn't* show up in DA2, but instead it did the opposite.

Oh well. I'm ready to accept DA2 for whatever it is. Bring it on.

Heh, yeah. I just get really annoyed at the implication that anyone who might enjoy and is interested in DA2 is a mindless idiot who rejoices in killing for the sake of killing (because DA2 won't have a story and isn't being written by the same people and you couldn't be an evil killing machine in Origins). Well, you may already know how I feel from my hissy fit the other day, I have a very bad tendency to not stay mad at people for more than like, an hour. Heh. :whistle:

The story is one thing I'm certain will be good. My issues are entirely gameplay related.

[Lady Jess]

yukidama wrote...


Heh, yeah. I just get really annoyed at the implication that anyone who might enjoy and is interested in DA2 is a mindless idiot who rejoices in killing for the sake of killing (because DA2 won't have a story and isn't being written by the same people and you couldn't be an evil killing machine in Origins). Well, you may already know how I feel from my hissy fit the other day, I have a very bad tendency to not stay mad at people for more than like, an hour. Heh. :whistle:

WHAT? I missed a Yukifit??? links or it didn't happen!

[Addai]

Lady Jess wrote...

yukidama wrote...


Heh, yeah. I just get really annoyed at the implication that anyone who might enjoy and is interested in DA2 is a mindless idiot who rejoices in killing for the sake of killing (because DA2 won't have a story and isn't being written by the same people and you couldn't be an evil killing machine in Origins). Well, you may already know how I feel from my hissy fit the other day, I have a very bad tendency to not stay mad at people for more than like, an hour. Heh. :whistle:

WHAT? I missed a Yukifit??? links or it didn't happen!

This one didn't involve cat photos.  At least, I don't recall seeing any!

Alright, I think I've got Morrigan out of my system... but now what do I do.    I guess I'll go back to The Witcher.  Until DahliaLynn gets the royal wedding mod finished.  

[mellifera]

I don't have any issues with what we know of the gameplay so far, as long as it's not a shooter. I died on the first planet in ME1 on easy, that's how much I suck at them lol.



Jess, I just got mad and told everyone to screw off xD if you know anything about me it's how I HATE the mindless "bros" people seem to love saying. DA2 is for. It's pretty much why I don't play online games...

[mellifera]

Dammit. Can't edit posts on my phone. But... Addai, don't bring up cats! I had to leave my kitty horde acros the continent in the States, so I am in mourning!

[Axekix]

Ok, back!  Have some catching up to do.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Axekix wrote...
I think you misunderstood.  Ethical validity has nothing to do with personal beliefs in this instance.  The study of ethics is tied to logical arguments and or fallacies.  Assuming guilt and acting on it without proof is not ethically valid.

You do realise that the "study of ethics" has several ethical schools of thoughts and philosophies that all say different things? There is no universally applicable "ethical validity".
Kantian ethics would reject the choice. Utilitarians, they might accept it. Consequentialists, depends on the results....etc etc

How do you figure Utilitarians would accept it?  Morrigan's death has no definitive value of "pleasure" since her purpose is unknown.  The amount of displeasure particularly in a case where the DR was performed is much more easily quantified.  At the core it's still weighing the value of Morrigan's life (and in some cases that of her child) against an unsubstantiated possibility of danger down the road.  I know of no credible school of ethics supporting that stance. 

That would be akin to arguing that I could rightfully kill a friend, who has a predisposition for callous behaviour that bought a gun but refused to say why.  It's certainly potentially dangerous.  They could want it to protect themselves, they could want it to pursue a hobby, or they could want it to go on a murderous rampage, but they've given no real indication either way.  Would that be valid?  I'm pretty sure that would get me murder one.

And it's not like Morrigan is the example of what an "ethical person" should be like anyways.   

That's not particularly relevant, since the ethical argument is based on the Warden's choice being "valid."

When someone is dabbling in things that you rightfully consider extremily dangerous

This assumption is unsupported however.  We do know she is dabbling in things considered very powerful and potentially  dangerous.  Whether it is truly dangerous or not depends on her intent and is something yet to be proven (and she really gives no indication that her choices will have dire consequences for the world at large).  Acting without that proof is the very problem we're discussing. 

I am not trying to sell you this at all btw. I simply like playing devil's advocate.
You can find the choice utterly revolting and I am not saying you are wrong.

Hey I love a good debate, are you kidding me?  The best discussions are the ones where people have differing opinions

Modifié par Axekix, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:12 .

[errant_knight]

OfficerDonNZ wrote...

Heh, easy they say. Well I think I've figured it out so here goes

Mira, my canon HNF rogue and Alistair looking very serious.

social.bioware.com/2918/albums/12441/13638802

Mira is currently working her way through Awakaning.

When I get a good pic of Nathyrra my dark elf mage I'll post one

Ok you should be able to get to the pic now Not quite want I wanted but still.

They do look very serious! What was going on there?

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

They do look very serious! What was going on there?

Isn't that part from the DR,  when you arrive to tell Morrigan that Alistair has agreed to do the deed?

Modifié par Zjarcal, 09 septembre 2010 - 06:14 .

[OfficerDonNZ]

errant_knight wrote...

They do look very serious! What was going on there?

Alistair was about to do the DR with Morri so I'd say that's why they were looking serious.

[errant_knight]

OfficerDonNZ wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

They do look very serious! What was going on there?

Alistair was about to do the DR with Morri so I'd say that's why they were looking serious.

Yeah, that's about as serious as it gets, except for the US.

[rak72]

Need an Alistair on this page

[KnightofPhoenix]

Axekix wrote...
How do you figure Utilitarians would accept it? 

Of course, the character does not *know* the danger that Morrigan's actions could bring (we never know the consequences of our own actions fully).
But from old Gods, to Tevinter mirrors, to promising change that sounds like it's going to be forced and add in her own morality.
Then yes, I can see some utilitarians arguing for it, as the potential danger can be deduced from past examples (old Gods, tevinter mirrors), which is what utilitarians often use to quantify the amount of universal "pleasure" and "displeasure" an action might bring. In addition to believing that no amount of pleasure can be obtained from Morrigans actions.
 
Of course the entire Utilitarian school of thought is useless when something uncommon or extraordinary happens.

And at the end of the day, those ethical philisophies are created by people that you can disagree with. It's not like they discovered a natural law of ethics that determines when an argument is invalid or not (an argument is invalid if it's contradictory or incoherent, it has little to do with ethics). So yes, it will always depends on your own personal beliefs.

Axekix wrote...
That would be akin to arguing that I could rightfully kill a friend, who has a predisposition for callous behaviour that bought a gun but refused to say why. 

Since we live under the rule of law, then of course you can't murder him. But wouldn't you report him to authorities?
If you know what he's like, and you see him buying a rifle, ammunitions and explosive ingredients and then promising to change the world adn refuse to answer how and why, wouldn't you freak out? I would report him personally.
Since that is difficult to do in DA, you can take the matter in your own hands.  

And while a gun can be potentially dangerous, I think magic associated with tevinter and old gods and plans to change the world have a much much higher scale of potential danger.

Axekix wrote...
This assumption is unsupported however.  

But you have leads. You know what Morrigan is like. You know what happens to the old Gods and that they supposedly were the ones who taught Tevinters blood magic (which makes them akin to demons). The Tevinter mirrors might lead to the Black city, which is what caused the darkspawn mess to begin with. And you have Morrigan implying a forced change on the world.

If you don't trust her at all, this is more than enough to take action and not wait till you have definitive proof.  
Add the fact that she refuses to tell you anything.

Do you have to wait for someone to tell you "I'm evil", for you to take action?
It does rest on her intent, which is why I said it's a matter of trust. If you think Morrigan is "evil" or whatever and you don't trust her and you see her doing all this and planing to change the world, you can see it as very dangerous.


Sorry everyone for the off-topicness btw. Here

   

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 septembre 2010 - 11:59 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I'd like to add that arguing for killing Morrigan is much harder than I thought...

Awww!

I share your pain. I've had Alistair executed before. Have an Evil Elf hug.

You arguements are all the sweeter and fascinating because of your love of Morrigan. I myself have done one Witch Hunt playthrough, however, I did not kill her. Nor do I plan to in most of my playthroughs.

How did your reunion with your raven haired sorceress go, anyway?

And some Alistair luv for the thread:



He looks so sexy in this pose...nekkid!:wub::wub::wub:

[Axekix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Axekix wrote...
How do you figure Utilitarians would accept it? 

Of course, the character does not *know* the danger that Morrigan's actions could bring (we never know the consequences of our own actions fully).
But from old Gods, to Tevinter mirrors, to promising change that sounds like it's going to be forced and add in her own morality.
Then yes, I can see some utilitarians arguing for it, as the potential danger can be deduced from past examples (old Gods, tevinter mirrors), which is what utilitarians often use to quantify the amount of universal "pleasure" and "displeasure" an action might bring. In addition to believing that no amount of pleasure can be obtained from Morrigans actions.

That is a huge assumption to make with such little information.  If anything Flemeth is apparently the one to be concerned with, meaning Morrigan's plans may or may not be the only way to deal with her.  To claim with certainty that no amount of pleasure can be derived from her actions is just as baseless as the implication of the danger she presents.
 

So yes, it will always depends on your own personal beliefs.

By that philosophy, any  action could be justified based on personal perspective, which is clearly ridiculous.  Most laws are based around ethical arguments at their core and for good reason.  You can choose to disagree but if you go and kill someone in cold blood that doesn't make you any less of a murderer.

Since we live under the rule of law, then of course you can't murder him. But wouldn't you report him to authorities? If you know what he's like, and you see him buying a rifle, ammunitions and explosive ingredients and then promising to change the world adn refuse to answer how and why, wouldn't you freak out? I would report him personally.

Well I'm certain there are laws in Fereldan as well.  It is interesting you say you would report him, (submitting him to investigation and due process), but are arguing in favor of simply murdering Morrigan. 

If the Warden is so concerned about her, why not turn her in to the Chantry when the DR is offered?  She could be made tranquil.  Why let her leave, then spend a year hunting her down, just to kill her personally?  That sounds less like an action done out of concern for the future and more out of self indulgence.  Wouldn't it at least be worth knowing  if she's truly guilty of anything before deciding to take her life?

Axekix wrote...
This assumption is unsupported however.  

But you have leads. You know what Morrigan is like.

As much as she has shown us, yes.  I'm not sure what this is supposed to imply.  Morrigan wants power, but I wouldn't classify her as evil.

You know what happens to the old Gods and that they supposedly were the ones who taught Tevinters blood magic (which makes them akin to demons).

Morrigan already knows some blood magic from her time with Flemeth.  The DR is blood magic, and from what we see of Morrigan in the fade, she's not one who is easily fooled by demonic mind games.

The Tevinter mirrors might lead to the Black city, which is what caused the darkspawn mess to begin with. And you have Morrigan implying a forced change on the world.

From the way she described it, the change coming was more attributed to Flemeth's plans than hers.

If you don't trust her at all, this is more than enough to take action and not wait till you have definitive proof.  
Add the fact that she refuses to tell you anything.

Do you have to wait for someone to tell you "I'm evil", for you to take action?
It does rest on her intent, which is why I said it's a matter of trust. If you think Morrigan is "evil" or whatever and you don't trust her and you see her doing all this and planing to change the world, you can see it as very dangerous.

Again, an unsubstantiated suspicion of someone is a very flimsy argument in favor of killing them, especially when you are close to the person to some degree.  I feel like we're going around in circles.

Modifié par Axekix, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:31 .