39010 réponses à ce sujet

[maxernst]

Zjarcal wrote...

phaonica wrote...

I mean, she did fight back, but if she hadn't, would you have murderknifed her? For what reason? Because Morrigan told you to?

edit: not directed at you, specifically, just in general

I've always felt like a jerk for killing Flemeth. Evil entity or no, she saved my life. It's a bit of a ponce move to return the favor by killing her. Well, she's not really dead of course, but that was surely the intention.

I would say there's a difference between this and "killing" Morrigan in WH. Flemeth doesn't deny that she plans to take Morrigan's body and tries to convince you to lie to her. With Morrigan, she may not be giving any answers, but unlike with Flemeth, you don't have a strong lead that suggests she's going to do something terrible. You may think the DR will lead to terrible things, but there is no strong evidence to support the theory.

EDIT: Of course, this assuming you consider Flemeth's grimoire and Morrigan's story as "strong evidence".

What really bothers me about killing Flemeth is that Morrigan herself says that she'll come back.  So killing her is ineffective and I don't especially want her coming back as my enemy.  Nor do I want to risk the survival of Ferelden by getting the only remaining Grey Wardens in the country killed in an unnecessary fight.  Killing Morrigan would stop her plans and there's no longer a blight to worry about, so losing the warden isn't a disaster for the world.  Except I'm pretty sure Morrigan doesn't actually die.

As far as doing something terrible, in DA:O Morrigan says Flemeth is going to posess her--which is bad, but Flemeth has apparently been doing this for hundreds of years.  It's not terrible on a world-threatening level.Morrigan's use of the god-child to "change the world" is a lot more potentially dangerous.  Yes, I realize Morrigan claims Flemeth had bigger plans in Witch Hunt, but there's nothing in DA:O that hints at that.

I've been writing a post-dark ritual fan-fic and have been contemplating a possible combat with Morrigan.  My warden has no wish to kill her, but if he becomes convinced that the child is horribly evil, he will have to fight her...the ending of the story will be so depressing if I go that route, though.  In the Witch Hunt scenario, he wouldn't kill Morrigan, though.  But if a PC was convinced that Morrigan was truly evil, he could think that knifing her before she enters the mirror is the only way to save the world.  Although if that was your opinion of Morrigan, I can't see why you would do the DR, and without the DR, I don't see why you would assume she poses a great threat....I mean, she's a powerful mage, but she's not that powerful.

[errant_knight]

phaonica wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Too bad about the Chantry slide being non existent. I thought it was a good solution, and far more of a life than Anora gives Alistair unless the PC convinces her otherwise--and not just convinces--has to use a boon. Anora seriously wants him dead. Ah, well!

I found this in the toolset:

"Queen Anora was sent away to live out the rest of her days in a cloister."
Description: Screenshot descriptions used by automatic screenshots 2da

I guess it's supposed to be the caption for a screenshot or something, but I don't know when or where or if it takes the shot.

That's interesting. I'll have to see if I can find the script that was supposed to call it. It seems like it may be something that was never implemented, for whatever reason.

[Bratt1204]

Addai67 wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Well, as someone else said, she only asks for Alistair's death if he calls for Loghain's death - if Loggy's already dead she just asks him to swear fealty.
As for rulership, I see no reason to kick a competent, popular and respected queen off the throne in place of a newbie during a time of crisis. The best solution (if I'm not playing MCousland) is to marry them as they both have the qualities the other one lacks. The epilogue certainly seems to suggest that it works out well.

A crisis she allowed to happen, which rather nerfs the "competent".  As for popular, Alistair is quite popular as ruler.  As for respected, we all get to see enough of Anora's true colors to know how much that's worth.

As I said yesterday, Vivat Alistair Rex.  That sums up my feelings on the matter.    I want a t-shirt that says that.

He looks so handsome in this pic :wub:

[Yankee23]

inclemency wrote...

Omg, I want to get that image of the Awakening Alistair in that video out of my head *argh*   He looked like Abe Lincoln, I am traumatized!

You are sooo right, NOT a good look!

[cmessaz]

errant_knight wrote...

phaonica wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Too bad about the Chantry slide being non existent. I thought it was a good solution, and far more of a life than Anora gives Alistair unless the PC convinces her otherwise--and not just convinces--has to use a boon. Anora seriously wants him dead. Ah, well!

I found this in the toolset:

"Queen Anora was sent away to live out the rest of her days in a cloister."
Description: Screenshot descriptions used by automatic screenshots 2da

I guess it's supposed to be the caption for a screenshot or something, but I don't know when or where or if it takes the shot.

That's interesting. I'll have to see if I can find the script that was supposed to call it. It seems like it may be something that was never implemented, for whatever reason.

Well, you don't really need to look for a script usually, best way is to look at the dlg file, most errors can be fixed there.

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

OfficerDonNZ wrote...

Bugger.


This may sound odd but what's the differnace between hardened Alistair and unhardend? I guess I should harden him one of these days to find out!

You should! I didn't harden him the first time because I didn't know about it, but I have everytime since. Not only is the landsmeet quite awesome if you're playing a male PC and Alistair duels Loghain, but it's really good to see him gain self confidence and believe in himself more--at least to me. He's still a duty-driven, moral, funny guy. That doesn't change whatever you do. He's just willing to take his own wants into account instead of dismissing them as irrelevant.

And that line for "where do you see this going" after the landsmeet when he tells you he won't let you go, no matter what.../swoon

[Addai]

@Lanfaer:  Yours is better angle. Rylock almost looks human in that one.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:15 .

[ejoslin]

cmessaz wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...
EDIT: If Alistair is hardened and he duels Loghain he takes the throne on his own, right? Does that mean you can't declare yourself queen if a HNF? I've never done it that way.

No, for a HNF it's safe to let him duel Loghain.

Edit: 'd!

Not exactly.  Only a HNF he's in love with.  Here are the conditions in order for a hardened Alistair NOT to take the crown automatically:

He's engaged to Anora
He's in love with a HNF

If you are at Adore OR if you are hoping for a political match, you must either have the engagement set up or have set up the marriage between him and Anora.

How do you set up the engagement?

Gah, well, that was a redundant sentence.  You must have the engagement between he and Anora set up.

Never mind me

Edit: For a HNM, you're best off not hardening him if you want to marry Anora.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:06 .

[cmessaz]

@ejo- Darn that might have convinced me to go political once



Good to see you in the thread again!

[inclemency]

Lady Jess wrote...

And that line for "where do you see this going" after the landsmeet when he tells you he won't let you go, no matter what.../swoon

Here 'ya go




MIB II

[Lady Jess]

inclemency wrote...

For Merilsell and Grumpy (and me)...my current PC put her foot down.

haha! My Lyra had a moment last night and I missed it. All this time She's been stonefaced, only speaking when she must, and not being very nice about it at that. And she meets Leliana. Made HER mad by calling her nosy. And got to the point where I could call her crazy, and Alistair's line pops "More crazy? I thought we were full up". I swear Lyra kicked him in the shin.

Ediyed: those are some shweet daggers...which mod?

Modifié par Lady Jess, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[ImpSlave]

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

On to another subject related to Anora-- I read on another game forum yesterday, that Anora is sent away to spend the rest of her life at a chantry in a bugged epilogue. Does anyone know if this is true or not? Someone mentioned finding the missing epilogue in the toolset?

Actually, this is what my HNF always does to Anora (to quote Eddie Izzard) "In my mind."  It would be similar to how powerful men handled it during the Middle Ages, by annulling the marriage and sending the wife to a convent.

In my mental epilogue, after the wedding, my HNF tricks Anora into signing a document that formally has her give up her claim to the throne, swears fealty to Alistair and his wife, and gives her consent to becoming a Chantry sister.  Of course, and because I can (In my mind), Anora isn't aware of what she signed until she sees her carriage pulling up to the Chantry.

[errant_knight]

cmessaz wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

phaonica wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Too bad about the Chantry slide being non existent. I thought it was a good solution, and far more of a life than Anora gives Alistair unless the PC convinces her otherwise--and not just convinces--has to use a boon. Anora seriously wants him dead. Ah, well!

I found this in the toolset:

"Queen Anora was sent away to live out the rest of her days in a cloister."
Description: Screenshot descriptions used by automatic screenshots 2da

I guess it's supposed to be the caption for a screenshot or something, but I don't know when or where or if it takes the shot.

That's interesting. I'll have to see if I can find the script that was supposed to call it. It seems like it may be something that was never implemented, for whatever reason.

Well, you don't really need to look for a script usually, best way is to look at the dlg file, most errors can be fixed there.

Thanks! I'll look there first. Although if it was never implemented, there might not be anything there. That would sure be the easiest!

[KnightofPhoenix]

CalJones wrote...

Come on, Persephone, we're not wanted here. *sniff*

Awww that's not true.
I mean look at me, why the hell am I here? lol

Oh, I'm here to post this:



And yes, Morrigan has to be in there, as I am not a fan of posting Alistair only pics

[KnightofPhoenix]

And oh, we had an Anora / Loghain debate while I wasn't here? tsk tsk.

Anora in the chantry is an amusing thought though.

[errant_knight]

Lady Jess wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

OfficerDonNZ wrote...

Bugger.


This may sound odd but what's the differnace between hardened Alistair and unhardend? I guess I should harden him one of these days to find out!

You should! I didn't harden him the first time because I didn't know about it, but I have everytime since. Not only is the landsmeet quite awesome if you're playing a male PC and Alistair duels Loghain, but it's really good to see him gain self confidence and believe in himself more--at least to me. He's still a duty-driven, moral, funny guy. That doesn't change whatever you do. He's just willing to take his own wants into account instead of dismissing them as irrelevant.

And that line for "where do you see this going" after the landsmeet when he tells you he won't let you go, no matter what.../swoon

I haven't gotten that yet, as I've never held off on that line, but I look forward to doing that this playthrough.

[cmessaz]

@errant- I messed around in there for that Anora mention for Queen Cous fix and didn't see that particular slide however.


But that line is weird if you are getting married. O.o...yeah dude we're getting married sooo....

Modifié par cmessaz, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[DahliaLynn]

Persephone wrote...

Alistair surely can kiss! Can't he?:wub::wub:

I wasn't considering reposting this, but I can't stop my awe at the beauty of the lighting in this shot. Where did you take this?

[inclemency]

ImpSlave wrote...

Actually, this is what my HNF always does to Anora (to quote Eddie Izzard) "In my mind."  It would be similar to how powerful men handled it during the Middle Ages, by annulling the marriage and sending the wife to a convent.

In my mental epilogue, after the wedding, my HNF tricks Anora into signing a document that formally has her give up her claim to the throne, swears fealty to Alistair and his wife, and gives her consent to becoming a Chantry sister.  Of course, and because I can (In my mind), Anora isn't aware of what she signed until she sees her carriage pulling up to the Chantry.

I think my Cousland Queen might have done the same, the only difference being she'd have her knifepoint pressing into Anora's throat as added incentive to sign. That is, of course, if Alistair hasn't put her to death after surviving the AD.

:devil:

Modifié par inclemency, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[Lady Jess]

CalJones wrote...

Those who claim Anora is a backstabber are the same people who blew her identity to Ser Cauthrien after she specifically told you not to do that.
As for Landsmeet, she will only go against you if you tell her you won't support her. That's not so surprising is it? She's been groomed to be queen since she was a toddler and was betrothed to Cailan - she doesn't know anything else.
She's not nicey-nice but any politician who is doesn't tend to last long. She's a strong woman, and I respect that. I certainly don't think she deserves getting slammed in the tower when she's lost her husband, her father and her throne. I feel sorry for her, actually (but then she always stays queen in my games, whether it's married to Alistair, my Cousland or on her own).

I spared Loghain once and it seemed to me, back at camp he basically said the Howe deal was a setup by her. Not in those words exactly.

PC: Were you really going to kill Anora?
Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.
PC: So I broke into the royal palace for nothing?
Loghain: Well, I'm sure having you come to her rescue gave Anora no small amount of pleasure.
PC: Why me, though?
Loghain: Is that a serious question? Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the Landsmeet?

I always thought it was, so  Basically so we'd walk in there and either die, or be imprisoned thereby stopping us from being at the landsmeet, and securing the throne for her and Daddy. When you actually DO get her "rescued" and maker forbid get past Cauthrien, by surrendering you're walking right into it. You don't have to be nicey nice, to be a politician, no. But you don't need to be calculatingly cold enough to kill or imprison the only people that can stop the blight either for your own selfsish gain. If she was as smart as you give her credit for, she'd know her throne would be short lived as would her life and that of the country if anything happens to Alistair and the Warden.

[cmessaz]

@Lady J- Thanks! The first time I spared Loghain I got that conversation and went from being meh about Anora to not liking her much. I forgot about that!

[errant_knight]

inclemency wrote...

ImpSlave wrote...

Actually, this is what my HNF always does to Anora (to quote Eddie Izzard) "In my mind."  It would be similar to how powerful men handled it during the Middle Ages, by annulling the marriage and sending the wife to a convent.

In my mental epilogue, after the wedding, my HNF tricks Anora into signing a document that formally has her give up her claim to the throne, swears fealty to Alistair and his wife, and gives her consent to becoming a Chantry sister.  Of course, and because I can (In my mind), Anora isn't aware of what she signed until she sees her carriage pulling up to the Chantry.

I think my Cousland Queen might have done the same, the only difference being she'd have her knifepoint pressing into Anora's throat as added incentive to sign. That is, of course, if Alistair hasn't put her to death after surviving the AD.

:devil:

To my mind, that's a choice that Alistair has to make. It's his rule that she won't swear fealty to, not the PC's and it's up to him to decide what to do with her. If he doesn't kill her outright, I can see him giveing her the choice of imprisonment or the Chantry--and not in a Chantry position that would allow her to involve herself in Chantry politics, either. If that couldn't be a ground rule, then it would be too risky.

[CalJones]

I don't think she was in any danger from Loghain, but I do think it's feasible she was in danger from Howe. However, I think the likeliest explanation is that Howe likely wanted her out of the way until after the Landsmeet and she didn't take too kindly to that, so arranged from the Warden to rescue her.

I don't think she engineered the arrest - she does, after all, go straight to Eamon to arrange a rescue (unless you opt to get yourself out of Drakon, of course). That doesn't suggest to me that she wants the Warden out of the way. What she wants is the Warden on her side. Things only go badly at the Landsmeet if the Warden goes against her.

I have to say, though, when I'm playing the Warden, I never take Alistair on the Rescue the Queen quest. You know it'll be risky, so why risk both wardens? Doesn't make sense.

[Lady Jess]

Lyra wonders if maybe the caged Qunari can knock the bickering bickersons out upon release.





Awwww, did I hurt the crazy lady's ittle feewings?...pshhh (Lyra's pet sound of annoyance)





"More Crazy" he says...you have to sleep sometime chantry boy.





Oh...oh...I think she grinned!

[maxernst]

Lady Jess wrote...

CalJones wrote...

Those who claim Anora is a backstabber are the same people who blew her identity to Ser Cauthrien after she specifically told you not to do that.
As for Landsmeet, she will only go against you if you tell her you won't support her. That's not so surprising is it? She's been groomed to be queen since she was a toddler and was betrothed to Cailan - she doesn't know anything else.
She's not nicey-nice but any politician who is doesn't tend to last long. She's a strong woman, and I respect that. I certainly don't think she deserves getting slammed in the tower when she's lost her husband, her father and her throne. I feel sorry for her, actually (but then she always stays queen in my games, whether it's married to Alistair, my Cousland or on her own).

I spared Loghain once and it seemed to me, back at camp he basically said the Howe deal was a setup by her. Not in those words exactly.

PC: Were you really going to kill Anora?
Loghain: Anora always did have a flair for the dramatic. She could have been a bard.
PC: So I broke into the royal palace for nothing?
Loghain: Well, I'm sure having you come to her rescue gave Anora no small amount of pleasure.
PC: Why me, though?
Loghain: Is that a serious question? Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the Landsmeet?

I always thought it was, so  Basically so we'd walk in there and either die, or be imprisoned thereby stopping us from being at the landsmeet, and securing the throne for her and Daddy. When you actually DO get her "rescued" and maker forbid get past Cauthrien, by surrendering you're walking right into it. You don't have to be nicey nice, to be a politician, no. But you don't need to be calculatingly cold enough to kill or imprison the only people that can stop the blight either for your own selfsish gain. If she was as smart as you give her credit for, she'd know her throne would be short lived as would her life and that of the country if anything happens to Alistair and the Warden.

That's not how I would interpret those lines  "Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the Landsmeet?" to me is asked because Anora does want your help in securing the throne, because Daddy won't let her rule.  My theory is she went to Howe to try and get his support against her Father and he decided to lock her up instead.  The big problem I have with the set-up theory is that she'd have to have Howe's assistance to get it to work, and it's a very poorly constructed trap from his point of view.  I agree Ser Cauthrien gets to the scene awfully quick, but it's possible that Loghain has men following the Warden and when you're spotted going to Howe's estate (remember you don't put on the disguises until you get there), he sends her out.  Medieval cities weren't very big so the distance from Howe's estate to the palace is likely less than fifteen minutes walk.

The other problem with the theory is that if she wants you imprisoned, why run to Eamon and tell him what's happened to you?