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[Lady Jess]

CalJones wrote...

I don't think she was in any danger from Loghain, but I do think it's feasible she was in danger from Howe. However, I think the likeliest explanation is that Howe likely wanted her out of the way until after the Landsmeet and she didn't take too kindly to that, so arranged from the Warden to rescue her.
I don't think she engineered the arrest - she does, after all, go straight to Eamon to arrange a rescue (unless you opt to get yourself out of Drakon, of course). That doesn't suggest to me that she wants the Warden out of the way. What she wants is the Warden on her side. Things only go badly at the Landsmeet if the Warden goes against her.
I have to say, though, when I'm playing the Warden, I never take Alistair on the Rescue the Queen quest. You know it'll be risky, so why risk both wardens? Doesn't make sense.

Og course she wasn't, SHE set it all up. YOU were supposed to die in there, she had to go to Eamon if you didn't or her little ruse was blown. Your companions seem to know this, even Dog calls her out on it at Eamons. And it's not like I pulled the dialog out of my ear...it was from the toolset. Anora set up the capture/rescue because you could sway the landsmeet.

[maxernst]

Lady Jess wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I don't think she was in any danger from Loghain, but I do think it's feasible she was in danger from Howe. However, I think the likeliest explanation is that Howe likely wanted her out of the way until after the Landsmeet and she didn't take too kindly to that, so arranged from the Warden to rescue her.
I don't think she engineered the arrest - she does, after all, go straight to Eamon to arrange a rescue (unless you opt to get yourself out of Drakon, of course). That doesn't suggest to me that she wants the Warden out of the way. What she wants is the Warden on her side. Things only go badly at the Landsmeet if the Warden goes against her.
I have to say, though, when I'm playing the Warden, I never take Alistair on the Rescue the Queen quest. You know it'll be risky, so why risk both wardens? Doesn't make sense.

Og course she wasn't, SHE set it all up. YOU were supposed to die in there, she had to go to Eamon if you didn't or her little ruse was blown. Your companions seem to know this, even Dog calls her out on it at Eamons. And it's not like I pulled the dialog out of my ear...it was from the toolset. Anora set up the capture/rescue because you could sway the landsmeet.

If she doesn't go to Eamon, her ruse is blown only if you manage to bust yourself out of Fort Drakon.  Otherwise, Eamon wouldn't know where you are or even whether you're still alive.  And you still haven't dealt with how she persuades Howe to agree to set up the force field.  He sure doesn't seem to be expecting you.

Modifié par maxernst, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:53 .

[Lady Jess]

maxernst wrote...

That's not how I would interpret those lines  "Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the Landsmeet?" to me is asked because Anora does want your help in securing the throne, because Daddy won't let her rule.  My theory is she went to Howe to try and get his support against her Father and he decided to lock her up instead.  The big problem I have with the set-up theory is that she'd have to have Howe's assistance to get it to work, and it's a very poorly constructed trap from his point of view.  I agree Ser Cauthrien gets to the scene awfully quick, but it's possible that Loghain has men following the Warden and when you're spotted going to Howe's estate (remember you don't put on the disguises until you get there), he sends her out.  Medieval cities weren't very big so the distance from Howe's estate to the palace is likely less than fifteen minutes walk.

The other problem with the theory is that if she wants you imprisoned, why run to Eamon and tell him what's happened to you? 

I think she expected you to die at Howe's hands. But you didn't, now you're imprisoned and can share the suspicion, so she does go to eamon. Damage control. And THEN does what she SHOULD have done in the first darned place and TALKS to you. She ASSUMED you would support Eamon, and she ASSUMES you'll put Alistair on the throne. She's calculating enough that if you survive Howe she can continue to play the "Daddy did it!!" card with Eamon to cover her behind, and if needed claim YOU imprisoned her to the landsmeet if she doesn't get her way. She's smart, but not smart enough.

[Lady Jess]

maxernst wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I don't think she was in any danger from Loghain, but I do think it's feasible she was in danger from Howe. However, I think the likeliest explanation is that Howe likely wanted her out of the way until after the Landsmeet and she didn't take too kindly to that, so arranged from the Warden to rescue her.
I don't think she engineered the arrest - she does, after all, go straight to Eamon to arrange a rescue (unless you opt to get yourself out of Drakon, of course). That doesn't suggest to me that she wants the Warden out of the way. What she wants is the Warden on her side. Things only go badly at the Landsmeet if the Warden goes against her.
I have to say, though, when I'm playing the Warden, I never take Alistair on the Rescue the Queen quest. You know it'll be risky, so why risk both wardens? Doesn't make sense.

Og course she wasn't, SHE set it all up. YOU were supposed to die in there, she had to go to Eamon if you didn't or her little ruse was blown. Your companions seem to know this, even Dog calls her out on it at Eamons. And it's not like I pulled the dialog out of my ear...it was from the toolset. Anora set up the capture/rescue because you could sway the landsmeet.

If she doesn't go to Eamon, her ruse is blown only if you manage to bust yourself out of Fort Drakon.  Otherwise, Eamon wouldn't know where you are or even whether you're still alive.  And you still haven't dealt with how she persuades Howe to agree to set up the force field.  He sure doesn't seem to be expecting you.

Well, it's in the toolset, believe it or don't but he basically tells you flat out she set it up. Back to Alistair before the thread gets locked for OT again.

[Yankee23]

errant_knight wrote...

inclemency wrote...

ImpSlave wrote...

Actually, this is what my HNF always does to Anora (to quote Eddie Izzard) "In my mind."  It would be similar to how powerful men handled it during the Middle Ages, by annulling the marriage and sending the wife to a convent.

In my mental epilogue, after the wedding, my HNF tricks Anora into signing a document that formally has her give up her claim to the throne, swears fealty to Alistair and his wife, and gives her consent to becoming a Chantry sister.  Of course, and because I can (In my mind), Anora isn't aware of what she signed until she sees her carriage pulling up to the Chantry.

I think my Cousland Queen might have done the same, the only difference being she'd have her knifepoint pressing into Anora's throat as added incentive to sign. That is, of course, if Alistair hasn't put her to death after surviving the AD.

:devil:

To my mind, that's a choice that Alistair has to make. It's his rule that she won't swear fealty to, not the PC's and it's up to him to decide what to do with her. If he doesn't kill her outright, I can see him giveing her the choice of imprisonment or the Chantry--and not in a Chantry position that would allow her to involve herself in Chantry politics, either. If that couldn't be a ground rule, then it would be too risky.

In my mind, my HNF suggests the sending of Anora to Vigils Keeps as a psuedo administrator for "civilian matters"  because she feels a little bad that Alistair's first act as king would be to call for someone's execution. Alistair will be a great king and will step up and make the hard decisions but let's give him a minute before he has to execute someone. Hardened or not I think that's something that will be hard for him, especially if it is for "political" reasons and not for crimes commited. Plus, my HNF keeps the Arlessa and Warden commander titles, at least for a while, until she can eventually appoint someone trustworthy. So in essence Anora is officially hers to keep in line.

[cmessaz]

Lady Jess wrote...

maxernst wrote...

That's not how I would interpret those lines  "Is there someone else you know of who could stand up to the Landsmeet?" to me is asked because Anora does want your help in securing the throne, because Daddy won't let her rule.  My theory is she went to Howe to try and get his support against her Father and he decided to lock her up instead.  The big problem I have with the set-up theory is that she'd have to have Howe's assistance to get it to work, and it's a very poorly constructed trap from his point of view.  I agree Ser Cauthrien gets to the scene awfully quick, but it's possible that Loghain has men following the Warden and when you're spotted going to Howe's estate (remember you don't put on the disguises until you get there), he sends her out.  Medieval cities weren't very big so the distance from Howe's estate to the palace is likely less than fifteen minutes walk.

The other problem with the theory is that if she wants you imprisoned, why run to Eamon and tell him what's happened to you? 

I think she expected you to die at Howe's hands. But you didn't, now you're imprisoned and can share the suspicion, so she does go to eamon. Damage control. And THEN does what she SHOULD have done in the first darned place and TALKS to you. She ASSUMED you would support Eamon, and she ASSUMES you'll put Alistair on the throne. She's calculating enough that if you survive Howe she can continue to play the "Daddy did it!!" card with Eamon to cover her behind, and if needed claim YOU imprisoned her to the landsmeet if she doesn't get her way. She's smart, but not smart enough.

You know, I've never looked at it from this perpective but I think you may be right. I knew she played dramaz to get your support...hmm.

Anyway, yeah I never take Alistair to Howe's. 1)He gets on Anora if she betrays you (sexy) 2) If I'm a noble I'm pretty bent on revenge and I do plan to go after Howe. 3)We are unsure about Anora, and know it might be a set up.

[Lady Jess]

"Hellooooooo is anyone in there???"

[nos_astra]

Yankee23 wrote...
In my mind, my HNF suggests the sending of Anora to Vigils Keeps as a psuedo administrator for "civilian matters"  because she feels a little bad that Alistair's first act as king would be to call for someone's execution.

Why would she feel bad about that?

[ejoslin]

Lady Jess wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I don't think she was in any danger from Loghain, but I do think it's feasible she was in danger from Howe. However, I think the likeliest explanation is that Howe likely wanted her out of the way until after the Landsmeet and she didn't take too kindly to that, so arranged from the Warden to rescue her.
I don't think she engineered the arrest - she does, after all, go straight to Eamon to arrange a rescue (unless you opt to get yourself out of Drakon, of course). That doesn't suggest to me that she wants the Warden out of the way. What she wants is the Warden on her side. Things only go badly at the Landsmeet if the Warden goes against her.
I have to say, though, when I'm playing the Warden, I never take Alistair on the Rescue the Queen quest. You know it'll be risky, so why risk both wardens? Doesn't make sense.

Og course she wasn't, SHE set it all up. YOU were supposed to die in there, she had to go to Eamon if you didn't or her little ruse was blown. Your companions seem to know this, even Dog calls her out on it at Eamons. And it's not like I pulled the dialog out of my ear...it was from the toolset. Anora set up the capture/rescue because you could sway the landsmeet.

Lady Jess, where does it say this is her motive?

She obviously was a prisoner of Howe's, though she probably wasn't in danger.  Everything I see in the toolset is while she doesn't regret her actions, she does think the Warden being imprisoned is a bad thing and needs to be fixed.

[Yankee23]

klarabella wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...
In my mind, my HNF suggests the sending of Anora to Vigils Keeps as a psuedo administrator for "civilian matters"  because she feels a little bad that Alistair's first act as king would be to call for someone's execution.

Why would she feel bad about that?

For Alistair. It's not something he would take lightly and may feel guilty about. Not that he wouldn't do it if he thought it necessary. She is trying to be helpful and give him a chance to get used to being king, plus she thinks it would help with the people of Ameranthine rather than just putting a foreign warden in charge. She certainly wouldn't feel bad about Anora lossing her head.

[cmessaz]

I guess I think it would be best to execute Anora, just like I see it as smart to execute Alistair when Anora is on the throne. Do I like it? No, but it's smart to secure your throne.

[Lady Jess]

ejoslin wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I don't think she was in any danger from Loghain, but I do think it's feasible she was in danger from Howe. However, I think the likeliest explanation is that Howe likely wanted her out of the way until after the Landsmeet and she didn't take too kindly to that, so arranged from the Warden to rescue her.
I don't think she engineered the arrest - she does, after all, go straight to Eamon to arrange a rescue (unless you opt to get yourself out of Drakon, of course). That doesn't suggest to me that she wants the Warden out of the way. What she wants is the Warden on her side. Things only go badly at the Landsmeet if the Warden goes against her.
I have to say, though, when I'm playing the Warden, I never take Alistair on the Rescue the Queen quest. You know it'll be risky, so why risk both wardens? Doesn't make sense.

Og course she wasn't, SHE set it all up. YOU were supposed to die in there, she had to go to Eamon if you didn't or her little ruse was blown. Your companions seem to know this, even Dog calls her out on it at Eamons. And it's not like I pulled the dialog out of my ear...it was from the toolset. Anora set up the capture/rescue because you could sway the landsmeet.

Lady Jess, where does it say this is her motive?

She obviously was a prisoner of Howe's, though she probably wasn't in danger.  Everything I see in the toolset is while she doesn't regret her actions, she does think the Warden being imprisoned is a bad thing and needs to be fixed.

It's Loghain's dialog in camp:)

[Fault Girl]

I am unsure as to what to do, I am a HNF. Whats the best root to follow? Marry Alistair or become his mistress.

I usually marry him but i often think after all my warden has done to protect ferelden, am i being selfish? Or should I give my PC the ending she should deserve for saving everyone's butts, quite literally.

[maxernst]

You already posted that; all that says is that she didn't have reason to believe she was going to be killed. I still interpret it as meaning that she was looking for you as an ally because she needs somebody strong enough to stand before the Landsmeet.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...
It's Loghain's dialog in camp:)

I think you ar reading way too much into that.

What Loghain says is that he never planned to kill her and that Anora recognised that the Warden on her side was a good thing. That does not imply that she orchestrated all this and planned to have you killed.
 
Howe refers to Anora as a "traitorous ****", so I do believe that Howe wanted her out of the way and perhaps even frame her death on you.

[ejoslin]

Lady Jess wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...



Og course she wasn't, SHE set it all up. YOU were supposed to die in there, she had to go to Eamon if you didn't or her little ruse was blown. Your companions seem to know this, even Dog calls her out on it at Eamons. And it's not like I pulled the dialog out of my ear...it was from the toolset. Anora set up the capture/rescue because you could sway the landsmeet.

Lady Jess, where does it say this is her motive?

She obviously was a prisoner of Howe's, though she probably wasn't in danger.  Everything I see in the toolset is while she doesn't regret her actions, she does think the Warden being imprisoned is a bad thing and needs to be fixed.

It's Loghain's dialog in camp:)

But it doesn't say that's her motive.  It actually confirms what she said, that she wanted to actually be able to talk to the warden before the Landsmeet.

Edit: He also calls her a drama queen.  But there's nothing there saying that Anora was actually trying to get you killed. Not in the dialog itself, and not in the script notes.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 septembre 2010 - 04:17 .

[Yankee23]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I am unsure as to what to do, I am a HNF. Whats the best root to follow? Marry Alistair or become his mistress.
I usually marry him but i often think after all my warden has done to protect ferelden, am i being selfish? Or should I give my PC the ending she should deserve for saving everyone's butts, quite literally.

Marry him! Why would you want to be a mistress if you can marry him? The heir thing? Imo, Alistair and non-warden queen only have a slight chance of concieving and Anora won't remarry if she rules alone, so there's a pretty slim chance for an heir anyway. Name one of Fergus' kids heir and be happy, she earned it!

[tuppence95]

Posting a pic to bring things back on topic again.  Don't want this thread to get locked too.  

Alistair at the Dalish camp

[Lady Jess]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I am unsure as to what to do, I am a HNF. Whats the best root to follow? Marry Alistair or become his mistress.
I usually marry him but i often think after all my warden has done to protect ferelden, am i being selfish? Or should I give my PC the ending she should deserve for saving everyone's butts, quite literally.

My couslands marry the king every time. Except that one dummy that spared Loghain by mistake (I have since learned the art of save/reload). Why settle for mistress when you can have cake! My canon Cousland married Alistair because, well she loves the guy of course. But beyond that, so he wasn't left to rule alone, or forced into a loveless marriage. But she still does her duty as Warden Commander, even if it takes her away from him occasionally.  In fact, when he asked for her plans at the ceremony she told him she was returning to the wardens (after the wedding of course). You can do both, serve the wardens and have the ending you deserve. Mine's fashioned a bit after my own real life experience, I have my prince charming but he also has a duty to uphold, and is away from home fairly often.

[Fault Girl]

Yankee23 wrote...

ZombieGeisha wrote...

I am unsure as to what to do, I am a HNF. Whats the best root to follow? Marry Alistair or become his mistress.
I usually marry him but i often think after all my warden has done to protect ferelden, am i being selfish? Or should I give my PC the ending she should deserve for saving everyone's butts, quite literally.

Marry him! Why would you want to be a mistress if you can marry him? The heir thing? Imo, Alistair and non-warden queen only have a slight chance of concieving and Anora won't remarry if she rules alone, so there's a pretty slim chance for an heir anyway. Name one of Fergus' kids heir and be happy, she earned it!

Thats what'll I do, I was having a crisis moment. 

[tuppence95]

Lady Jess wrote...

*snip*
"Hellooooooo is anyone in there???"

Love it!  

[nos_astra]

ejoslin wrote...
But it doesn't say that's her motive.  It actually confirms what she said, that she wanted to actually be able to talk to the warden before the Landsmeet.

But she chose a very strange way to do that. Loghain also confirms that she wasn't in any danger and probably enjoyed the drama of being rescued. Well, doesn't make too much sense. Anora is not a child.

[Lady Jess]

tuppence95 wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

*snip*
"Hellooooooo is anyone in there???"

Love it!  

hehe thanks. I'm debating what kind of trouble she can get into today. We're past Lothering. I'm just not sure where I want to go first. Redcliffe will probably be last after the info gathered at Lothering. Lyra won't see the point in visiting a comatose Arl. People in coma's just aren't that helpful. Maybe Orzammar, get the worst treaty out of the way first.

[ejoslin]

klarabella wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
But it doesn't say that's her motive.  It actually confirms what she said, that she wanted to actually be able to talk to the warden before the Landsmeet.

But she chose a very strange way to do that. Loghain also confirms that she wasn't in any danger and probably enjoyed the drama of being rescued. Well, doesn't make too much sense. Anora is not a child.

He doesn't quite confirm that.  In fact, he says HE wouldn't let her be killed, but Howe did want her killed, enough so that he brought it up to Loghain, who rejected it, but, for whatever reason, still kept Howe around as his advisor.  And she was Howe's prisoner, I'm assuming without Loghain's consent.

Edit: As a father who loved his daughter, he probably could not accept that he put his daughter in danger by allowing a man who wanted her dead to take her prisoner.

Second edit: Logic of the situation aside, I was looking for a definitive answer that her motive was killing the warden.  There's nothing in the toolset to indicate that, however.  Too bad  Had it been in there, it would make the landsmeet decision much easier for me!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 septembre 2010 - 04:30 .

[Lady Jess]

"Right. Don't mind me, just a peon in your command structure here, wallowing in my insignificance. Oh what ever, I'm sure you know best"



After Lyra said we're taking Zev because she said so...lol