He's looking right at the camera in a very "you know you want me" way. Yes, Alistair, yes we do!LadyDamodred wrote...
Just grabbed these. Figured I'd share. The first one makes me feel all fluttery.
[snip]
Modifié par Yankee23, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:45 .
rak72 wrote...
What you said. It might be interesting to try him out with my Dalish though - she'll tell him he smells right back.Addai67 wrote...
Maker, that
sounds very OOC to me. For one thing, he would still be viewing a
Cousland as his noble lady even though she doesn't technically have that
position. And I guess I just always saw him as a consummate gentleman,
like Alistair in that really and even moreso.
Modifié par Merilsell, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:47 .
Yankee23 wrote...
He's looking right at the camera in a very "you know you want me" way. Yes, Alistair, yes we do!LadyDamodred wrote...
Just grabbed these. Figured I'd share. The first one makes me feel all fluttery.
*snip*
You realize that you've piled assumption onto assumption here, right? You think Maric never told Loghain, and then that Loghain assumed something as specific as "Maric nearly did recognize Alistair" based on nothing more than an assumption that Loghain didn't even know who Alistair was. And you base all this on Maric being cagey in TC. I have no idea how to argue against this, because your assumptions are based on what you think Loghain's assumption are. You have no evidence for this other than your perception of Maric and Loghain's relationship in TC, and it's just poor logic.Addai67 wrote...
He might never have actually seen Alistair or known enough to realize what the time frame was. I could see it working like this: Loghain hears rumors from Redcliffe that there's a boy running around who's the king's bastard. He goes to confront Maric, and Maric basically grunts non-answers at him, from which Loghain presumes that Maric must not have recognized the boy because he was trying to hide him from Rowan. That was the only reason Loghain probably could come up with why Maric would do such a thing. It would have been easier for everyone for Loghain just to believe his false suppositions, so Maric never corrects him, and in Loghain's mind it becomes the truth of what happened.
Well yeah, we are both making assumptions because we don't really know the circumstances. But Maric was hiding his meeting with Fiona and Duncan from Loghain, he says "Loghain won't like this" about the baby and Fiona responds "it doesn't have to be like that" and then they hatch the plan to raise the baby away from court free from both their legacies. So I don't think it's a great leap to say that Maric had no intention ever of telling Loghain what happened.Monica21 wrote...
You realize that you've piled assumption onto assumption here, right? You think Maric never told Loghain, and then that Loghain assumed something as specific as "Maric nearly did recognize Alistair" based on nothing more than an assumption that Loghain didn't even know who Alistair was. And you base all this on Maric being cagey in TC. I have no idea how to argue against this, because your assumptions are based on what you think Loghain's assumption are. You have no evidence for this other than your perception of Maric and Loghain's relationship in TC, and it's just poor logic.Addai67 wrote...
He might never have actually seen Alistair or known enough to realize what the time frame was. I could see it working like this: Loghain hears rumors from Redcliffe that there's a boy running around who's the king's bastard. He goes to confront Maric, and Maric basically grunts non-answers at him, from which Loghain presumes that Maric must not have recognized the boy because he was trying to hide him from Rowan. That was the only reason Loghain probably could come up with why Maric would do such a thing. It would have been easier for everyone for Loghain just to believe his false suppositions, so Maric never corrects him, and in Loghain's mind it becomes the truth of what happened.
We're obviously not going to agree on this.
No, we don't know, but what would Loghain have to gain by saying anything other than "I don't know" if he didn't know? And saying "Loghain won't like this" isn't the same as not telling Loghain. I believe he did tell Loghain. Loghain is still Maric's best friend. There's no reason for Maric not to tell him.Addai67 wrote...
Well yeah, we are both making assumptions because we don't really know the circumstances. But Maric was hiding his meeting with Fiona and Duncan from Loghain, he says "Loghain won't like this" about the baby and Fiona responds "it doesn't have to be like that" and then they hatch the plan to raise the baby away from court free from both their legacies. So I don't think it's a great leap to say that Maric had no intention ever of telling Loghain what happened.
But I don't even need to suppose this- we know from the timeline that what Loghain says can't be true. Alistair is not old enough for Maric to have not recognized him because it would hurt Rowan. So either Loghain is speaking in a metaphorical sense about Rowan's memory, or he's simply confused about the facts.
Monica21 wrote...
No, we don't know, but what would Loghain have to gain by saying anything other than "I don't know" if he didn't know? And saying "Loghain won't like this" isn't the same as not telling Loghain. I believe he did tell Loghain. Loghain is still Maric's best friend. There's no reason for Maric not to tell him.Addai67 wrote...
Well yeah, we are both making assumptions because we don't really know the circumstances. But Maric was hiding his meeting with Fiona and Duncan from Loghain, he says "Loghain won't like this" about the baby and Fiona responds "it doesn't have to be like that" and then they hatch the plan to raise the baby away from court free from both their legacies. So I don't think it's a great leap to say that Maric had no intention ever of telling Loghain what happened.
But I don't even need to suppose this- we know from the timeline that what Loghain says can't be true. Alistair is not old enough for Maric to have not recognized him because it would hurt Rowan. So either Loghain is speaking in a metaphorical sense about Rowan's memory, or he's simply confused about the facts.
As for the comment about Rowan, it doesn't make sense in the timeline but still implies Maric doing his best to respect her memory.
Modifié par tuppence95, 12 septembre 2010 - 03:52 .
He trusted Loghain with the kingdom and with his son, and the beginning of TC says Loghain was arguing as strenuously as he was because he was concerned for Maric's welfare. But there did seem to be a lot of suspicion in both directions and also Maric knew he was pushing things with L. by accepting the Wardens into Ferelden and by inviting Celene. So I really think it could go either way. He might have eventually told Loghain the truth, or it may be that once Alistair was out of sight it was just easier to keep him out of mind, let alone out of a difficult relationship with his closest advisor who also happened to love Rowan.tuppence95 wrote...
Were Maric and Loghain still friends at the time Fiona brought the child? It didn't seem like it. Loghain knew that Maric was in contact with Orlais. I don't think either of them trusted each other. When Maric went on that excursion into the Deep Roads with Duncan, Fiona and the other wardens, he literally had to sneak away. And again, he had to sneak Duncan, Fiona and the baby into the palace when Loghain was away because he didn't want him to know about Fiona or the child.
Even if they weren't as close as they were during the rebellion, I believe that yes, Loghain and Maric were still friends and that Loghain was probably the only true friend he ever had. Maric knows how Loghain thinks, and he knows he can be trusted with such personal information as "I had a bastard child, what do I do with it?" Loghain is not a politician, but he understands the potential of the common folk finding out about a bastard.tuppence95 wrote...
Were Maric and Loghain still friends at the time Fiona brought the child? It didn't seem like it. Loghain knew that Maric was in contact with Orlais. I don't think either of them trusted each other. When Maric went on that excursion into the Deep Roads with Duncan, Fiona and the other wardens, he literally had to sneak away. And again, he had to sneak Duncan, Fiona and the baby into the palace when Loghain was away because he didn't want him to know about Fiona or the child.
Modifié par Lady Jess, 12 septembre 2010 - 04:32 .
As I've been saying, IMO he thought he knew what was what. He was telling the events as he saw them.Monica21 wrote...
No, we don't know, but what would Loghain have to gain by saying anything other than "I don't know" if he didn't know?
The plan that Fiona and Duncan worked out with him meant he didn't have to tell Loghain. And the reason he had not to tell him was to keep the peace. Hence why Duncan was to keep an eye on the baby, so Maric didn't have to do so personally and it could all stay on the down-low.And saying "Loghain won't like this" isn't the same as not telling Loghain. I believe he did tell Loghain. Loghain is still Maric's best friend. There's no reason for Maric not to tell him.
As for the comment about Rowan, it doesn't make sense in the timeline but still implies Maric doing his best to respect her memory.
Modifié par Addai67, 12 septembre 2010 - 04:33 .
Yes, and what you've been saying is based on assumptions based on what you think Loghain's assumptions were to a scenario that only exists in your mind about non-committal answers from Maric. Do you see how that doesn't make sense?Addai67 wrote...
As I've been saying, IMO he thought he knew what was what. He was telling the events as he saw them.
I never said he had to, I said he probably did. If he hadn't told Loghain then he would have found out anyway because that's what Loghain does.The plan that Fiona and Duncan worked out with him meant he didn't have to tell Loghain. And the reason he had not to tell him was to keep the peace. Hence why Duncan was to keep an eye on the baby, so Maric didn't have to do so personally and it could all stay on the down-low.
Why do you assume that's the only discussion Maric had about Alistair?Maric says nothing whatsoever about Rowan's memory in TC when they're discussing what to do with the baby. In fact, he wants to recognize and raise Alistair. It's Fiona who says no to that.
Yes, it's actually likely, and I'm the one who brought up what Loghain would do with the knowledge that Alistair is half-elven.It's possible that he told Loghain he had a bastard and just left out the part about "elven mage Warden mother," which would have necessitated he supply some other reason for not recognizing him than "so he doesn't have to grow up as the child of an elf." So maybe Maric actually did tell him that it was because of Rowan. As someone else pointed out way upthread, if Loghain knew that Alistair was half-elven, that would be something he could have brought out against him in the LM.
Modifié par Monica21, 12 septembre 2010 - 04:54 .
Modifié par inclemency, 12 septembre 2010 - 04:57 .
. Alistair doesn't understand why this happens to me and neither do I, so I am giving up for the night and I am going to bed.
Yankee23 wrote...
Once again the toolset has thwarted me. I have a beautiful elf, who this time even looks great in the character creator and when I start my game...
Modifié par inclemency, 12 septembre 2010 - 05:25 .
Lady Jess wrote...
Oh holy crap! You guys playing Dalish, look for the messenger when you do the dalish treaty. You can give him a message for your clan. pretty cool!
Modifié par LadyDamodred, 12 septembre 2010 - 05:29 .
LadyDamodred wrote...
Lady Jess wrote...
Oh holy crap! You guys playing Dalish, look for the messenger when you do the dalish treaty. You can give him a message for your clan. pretty cool!
Where is the messenger? In the camp with Zathrien's clan? Is this after the treaty is completed or earlier?
Modifié par Lady Jess, 12 septembre 2010 - 05:37 .
LadyDamodred wrote...
Lady Jess wrote...
Oh holy crap! You guys playing Dalish, look for the messenger when you do the dalish treaty. You can give him a message for your clan. pretty cool!
Where is the messenger? In the camp with Zathrien's clan? Is this after the treaty is completed or earlier?
Lady Jess wrote...
LadyDamodred wrote...
Lady Jess wrote...
Oh holy crap! You guys playing Dalish, look for the messenger when you do the dalish treaty. You can give him a message for your clan. pretty cool!
Where is the messenger? In the camp with Zathrien's clan? Is this after the treaty is completed or earlier?
I discovered him after, because I was running around holding down Tab to grab codex entries. When I saw "messenger" I got curious.
LadyDamodred wrote...
Lady Jess wrote...
LadyDamodred wrote...
Lady Jess wrote...
Oh holy crap! You guys playing Dalish, look for the messenger when you do the dalish treaty. You can give him a message for your clan. pretty cool!
Where is the messenger? In the camp with Zathrien's clan? Is this after the treaty is completed or earlier?
I discovered him after, because I was running around holding down Tab to grab codex entries. When I saw "messenger" I got curious.
Thankee. It makes me sad that I will do the Dalish treaty first, but not even close to romancing Alistair, so we'll have to come back later for the comfort scene.
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