39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Jess]

Sandtigress wrote...

Honestly, I don't think that being a Grey Warden is the core of his identity - it's the thing he latched on to in seeking his destiny.  Alistair can become very disillusioned with the Wardens, and I think he would have even become disappointed with Duncan had he continued to lead.  Alistair says that he knows that Grey Wardens make grey choices, but I don't think that the reality of that statement has really hit him in Ostagar - after all, he's only been part of the order for six months.

As long as the Grey Wardens continue to be heroic, Alistair is quite happy to stay there.  What he really wants is to be wanted and needed and to make a difference in the world and to someone.  If these opportunities don't manifest themselves in the Wardens he does leave the order.  And in the same vein, I thnk (hardened) Alistair can find all those things in being king and be quite satisfied in the role once he quits being afraid of it.

His fade sequence threw me. When he says he doesn't want to spend his life fighting only to end up in a ditch full of darkspawn corpses. Makes me think, he does believe in what he's doing, he does see them as honorable, but he still wants a family and a normal life even more than that.  He doesn't want the GW to BE his life.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 16 septembre 2010 - 04:31 .

[inclemency]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Lady Jess: I tried it, but the corners of the mouth still don't meet for me. It could be because I've made other changes. Not to mention, lips of that thickness are too thick for me. I did manage to fix the profile issues and angles on the cheeks though, so I might just suck it up about the corner of the mouth thing.

See what I mean about Eleanor having a weird ass face?

KoP:  PM and email~! 

I was just about to type the same thing about the mouth...I only see slight glimmers of lips not completely closed at almost-to-the corners.  I can fix it all if I put her teeth up behind her nose, but that would be just a bit.........odd.    Ah well, it's been fun trying, thanks LadyJ

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Well, with no dog and chew toys. Your idea is still original

Then I'm firing up Gimp!

I hope you're amused and not offended by the outcome...

Amused, don't worry.
I am sure Addai will appreciate it lol

[Siduri]

Sandtigress wrote...

What he really wants is to be wanted and needed and to make a difference in the world and to someone.

There's that, but I think the real reason Alistair has latched on to the Grey Wardens so tightly is that they offered him a surrogate family, and he is so hungry for that. We see in the Fade dream that a family is what he wants most; Duncan was obviously a father-figure to him; and I'm convinced, at least, that the reason he spazzes out at the suggestion that Loghain be made a Warden is that it shatters the idea of Wardens-as-family for him. (His line is something like "I will not stand with this man as a brother...") So, I think the meaning of the Wardens for Alistair goes a bit deeper than just matching up with his innate heroism, and has everything to do with his lack of a real family.

[Lady Jess]

Alistair is not at all sure about this girl. She takes being disciplined to a whole new level. All polite smiles and good manners. Too good. You'd think after her entire family was slaughtered she'd be a ball of rage, or at least appear to be mourning but...no.

Edited for typing fail.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 16 septembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[RogueWarrior626]

How hardened because I tried after sleeping with him in camp.It was funny cuz he said What boundries.It was quite funny.So my girl said I just wanted to see your reaction.

[Lady Jess]

inclemency wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Lady Jess: I tried it, but the corners of the mouth still don't meet for me. It could be because I've made other changes. Not to mention, lips of that thickness are too thick for me. I did manage to fix the profile issues and angles on the cheeks though, so I might just suck it up about the corner of the mouth thing.

See what I mean about Eleanor having a weird ass face?

KoP:  PM and email~! 

I was just about to type the same thing about the mouth...I only see slight glimmers of lips not completely closed at almost-to-the corners.  I can fix it all if I put her teeth up behind her nose, but that would be just a bit.........odd.    Ah well, it's been fun trying, thanks LadyJ

You're welcome. You'll notice Elea still has a slight gap, but I gave up. Like I said, naturally, very few people have their lips clamed tightly together in real life anyhow.

[RogueWarrior626]

Lady Jess very good shot.

[Lady Jess]

RogueWarrior626 wrote...

How hardened because I tried after sleeping with him in camp.It was funny cuz he said What boundries.It was quite funny.So my girl said I just wanted to see your reaction.

Tried what? I've never heard a line about boundaries before.

[Maria13]

Sandtigress wrote...

Honestly, I don't think that being a Grey Warden is the core of his identity - it's the thing he latched on to in seeking his destiny.  Alistair can become very disillusioned with the Wardens, and I think he would have even become disappointed with Duncan had he continued to lead.  Alistair says that he knows that Grey Wardens make grey choices, but I don't think that the reality of that statement has really hit him in Ostagar - after all, he's only been part of the order for six months.

As long as the Grey Wardens continue to be heroic, Alistair is quite happy to stay there.  What he really wants is to be wanted and needed and to make a difference in the world and to someone.  If these opportunities don't manifest themselves in the Wardens he does leave the order.  And in the same vein, I thnk (hardened) Alistair can find all those things in being king and be quite satisfied in the role once he quits being afraid of it.

Yes I agree with this.  It's a family he wants, the family he never had as a child.

However, failing that, he would opt for a heroic death....

[RogueWarrior626]

Threesom at the pearl.Oh thats what he said.Thats why I wondered if there was a certain point.

[Yankee23]

Lady Jess wrote...

RogueWarrior626 wrote...

How hardened because I tried after sleeping with him in camp.It was funny cuz he said What boundries.It was quite funny.So my girl said I just wanted to see your reaction.

Tried what? I've never heard a line about boundaries before.

I believe when you ask Alistair to join you his response is something like Whoa, boundries!" I don't know if you get it with a hardened Alistair. My wardens DO NOT share (alright, unless it's the dr). But they do tease before he is hardened.

[Lady Jess]

RogueWarrior626 wrote...

Threesom at the pearl.Oh thats what he said.Thats why I wondered if there was a certain point.

Ahhh right. No, he'll do it at any point after being hardened I think.

[Yankee23]

RogueWarrior626 wrote...

How hardened because I tried after sleeping with him in camp.It was funny cuz he said What boundries.It was quite funny.So my girl said I just wanted to see your reaction.

You have to have been to Goldanna's and told him "everybody is out for themselves" for him to be hardened.

[Sandtigress]

Siduri wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

What he really wants is to be wanted and needed and to make a difference in the world and to someone.

There's that, but I think the real reason Alistair has latched on to the Grey Wardens so tightly is that they offered him a surrogate family, and he is so hungry for that. We see in the Fade dream that a family is what he wants most; Duncan was obviously a father-figure to him; and I'm convinced, at least, that the reason he spazzes out at the suggestion that Loghain be made a Warden is that it shatters the idea of Wardens-as-family for him. (His line is something like "I will not stand with this man as a brother...") So, I think the meaning of the Wardens for Alistair goes a bit deeper than just matching up with his innate heroism, and has everything to do with his lack of a real family.

I don't disagree, but you've made the point I was trying to make.  It's not the Grey Wardens in particular that he wants. It's family.  As long as the Wardens provide that, he's dedicated to them.  But if they can't and he thinks he can find it somewhere or with someone else, then he's willing to leave the Wardens to get what he wants.

He is devoted to the Wardens, but that's incidental to what he's really looking for.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Well, with no dog and chew toys. Your idea is still original

Then I'm firing up Gimp!

I hope you're amused and not offended by the outcome...

Amused, don't worry.
I am sure Addai will appreciate it lol

Alright, just know that this is all in the spirit of good fun and that I am one of your minions!



EDIT: Fixed the middle O.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 16 septembre 2010 - 05:08 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Nice one Zjarcel!

[Siduri]

Sandtigress wrote...

I don't disagree, but you've made the point I was trying to make.  It's not the Grey Wardens in particular that he wants. It's family.  As long as the Wardens provide that, he's dedicated to them.  But if they can't and he thinks he can find it somewhere or with someone else, then he's willing to leave the Wardens to get what he wants.

He is devoted to the Wardens, but that's incidental to what he's really looking for.

Yeah, it sounds like we basically agree. When I say that being a Grey Warden is at the core of Alistair's identity, I mean that it's what he's latched on to to provide the thing he most wants in life (family). It's actually a poor approximation of a family, but it's the best he has, and he clings to it. I guess the one place I'd disagree with you is in the suggestion that he can leave the Wardens and be okay afterwards. Leaving the Wardens destroys him. When you make him King, he's still a Warden, after all. Or am I wrong in thinking that the one ending where he actually leaves the Wardens is the wandering-drunk ending?

[Giggles_Manically]

He leaves also if you harden him, and marry him off to Anora. You have to spare Loghain as well to get him to quit.

[Siduri]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

He leaves also if you harden him, and marry him off to Anora. You have to spare Loghain as well to get him to quit.

Oh, I've never taken that route. So he quits the Wardens, not just the party?

I did see the YouTube video of his post-battle speech in that ending, though, and it didn't seem like he was doing too well in that case.

[Merilsell]

Lady Jess wrote...
His fade sequence threw me. When he says he doesn't want to spend his life fighting only to end up in a ditch full of darkspawn corpses. Makes me think, he does believe in what he's doing, he does see them as honorable, but he still wants a family and a normal life even more than that.  He doesn't want the GW to BE his life.

Yep, same here. I guess this is part of the reason why he leaves the Grey Wardens when your PC has done the US and you didn't made him king. It's simply not the same anymore. If the Warden is BFF with him-- or even more so his love, then she is his family. His most important person, so to speak, and someone who makes him feel wanted and accepted for who he is and not what he is. And this is something he never had in this life before. Sad but true.

[Sandtigress]

Siduri wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

I don't disagree, but you've made the point I was trying to make.  It's not the Grey Wardens in particular that he wants. It's family.  As long as the Wardens provide that, he's dedicated to them.  But if they can't and he thinks he can find it somewhere or with someone else, then he's willing to leave the Wardens to get what he wants.

He is devoted to the Wardens, but that's incidental to what he's really looking for.

Yeah, it sounds like we basically agree. When I say that being a Grey Warden is at the core of Alistair's identity, I mean that it's what he's latched on to to provide the thing he most wants in life (family). It's actually a poor approximation of a family, but it's the best he has, and he clings to it. I guess the one place I'd disagree with you is in the suggestion that he can leave the Wardens and be okay afterwards. Leaving the Wardens destroys him. When you make him King, he's still a Warden, after all. Or am I wrong in thinking that the one ending where he actually leaves the Wardens is the wandering-drunk ending?

Well, I think he stops being a Warden when he actually becomes king too. (Remember that the coronation doesn't happen until the archdemon is defeated.)  He doesn't, for instance, join you at the Vigil when you're the only other Warden left in all of Ferelden fighting against a new breed of darkspawn.

I would suspect he's not longer really under the jurisdiction of the Wardens at that point in most things - otherwise you as Warden Commander would have an incredible amount of authority over the King of Ferelden when you're just an arl(essa).

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Siduri wrote...
I think it is in his mind, though it may be a noble thing for the PC to do. Being a Grey Warden is the most important thing in his life. It's the core of his identity, really the one thing he's proud of -- and battling the archdemon is what Grey Wardens are for. If you leave him at the gates you're denying him the chance to fulfill what he sees as his true destiny.

I really really REALLY want to throw my usual objection and question how being a Warden is supposedly the most important thing in his life that he would put above all else.
 
But...I am not going to.
Lest I really fit Addai's metaphor about me being a mabari with an Alistair chew toy

LOL I thought you might like that and then you didn't even comment on it, I was disappointed.  You were too busy gnawing, I take it. 

You know that I kid, I kid.

[Lady Jess]

Siduri wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

I don't disagree, but you've made the point I was trying to make.  It's not the Grey Wardens in particular that he wants. It's family.  As long as the Wardens provide that, he's dedicated to them.  But if they can't and he thinks he can find it somewhere or with someone else, then he's willing to leave the Wardens to get what he wants.

He is devoted to the Wardens, but that's incidental to what he's really looking for.

Yeah, it sounds like we basically agree. When I say that being a Grey Warden is at the core of Alistair's identity, I mean that it's what he's latched on to to provide the thing he most wants in life (family). It's actually a poor approximation of a family, but it's the best he has, and he clings to it. I guess the one place I'd disagree with you is in the suggestion that he can leave the Wardens and be okay afterwards. Leaving the Wardens destroys him. When you make him King, he's still a Warden, after all. Or am I wrong in thinking that the one ending where he actually leaves the Wardens is the wandering-drunk ending?

Leaving the wardens doesn't destroy him. Two things do that, sparing Loghain (if he's not married to Anora) turns him into a wandering drunk. Losing his love to the archdemon will make him leave the order if he's not king (or married to Anora) because it isn't the same anymore.  The only things that destroy him are related to your warden. Betrayal, or your death if he  doesn't have his duty as King to keep him.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Alright, just know that this is all in the spirit of good fun and that I am one of your minions!



EDIT: Fixed the middle O.

HA, excellent! Love it.
And yes kudos for the middle "O", it's very important to me lol

@ Addai
I know, I know