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[errant_knight]

Lady Jess wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Honestly, I don't know.  People have different preferences for dialogue and I've heard all of it at some point.  If you really like his unhardened lines, I'd wait til right before the Landsmeet.  I tend to do it at appropriate RP moments.

I really WISH there was a way to do this without dealing with Goldanna. There are so many little moments it could be done. Such as when he yells at you about Connor/isolde, or right at Flemeth's with "why would Loghain do this", When recruiting Zevran, talking to Jowan, I'm sure there are others. My favorite time to do it for RP reasons would be after he tells you about his birthright. But to do it, you have to drag him to Denerim and visit this Goldanna woman that has nothing to do with whatever situation you RP would be the time to harden him.

I would still take him to see his sister as soon as possible, so it's actually pretty convenient. I'm glad it's not the Connor/Isolde thing, because we're always in complete agreement about that. Really, Goldana's is the best place without making it fit into roleplay that's relationship dependant.

Huh... ToP again. *Goes to make a picture*

Modifié par errant_knight, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:21 .

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Honestly, I don't know.  People have different preferences for dialogue and I've heard all of it at some point.  If you really like his unhardened lines, I'd wait til right before the Landsmeet.  I tend to do it at appropriate RP moments.

I really WISH there was a way to do this without dealing with Goldanna. There are so many little moments it could be done. Such as when he yells at you about Connor/isolde, or right at Flemeth's with "why would Loghain do this", When recruiting Zevran, talking to Jowan, I'm sure there are others. My favorite time to do it for RP reasons would be after he tells you about his birthright. But to do it, you have to drag him to Denerim and visit this Goldanna woman that has nothing to do with whatever situation you RP would be the time to harden him.

I would still take him to see his sister as soon as possible, so it's actually pretty convenient. I'm glad it's not the Connor/Isolde thing, because we're always in complete agreement about that. Really, Goldana's is the best place without making it fit into roleplay that's relationship dependant.

Huh... ToP again. *Goes to make a picture*

Oh I'm not saying skip Goldanna completely. That should still be his personal quest, and the option could be there. But not the ONLY option to harden him. My HNF would have done it when he asked about Loghain at Flemeth's, My Mage at Jowan, my City Elf with Zevran, my Dalish it fit to do it at Goldanna's. My DNF would have done it after meeeting Bhelen, and my DCF the same thing Bhelen and Mam Brosca.  People being out for themselves is everywhere.

[LadyDamodred]

Yeah, I have to rp a whole lot of little conversations with Alistair. Just things that sort of help him figure stuff out and subtley guiding him in the direction I want him to take.

[Yankee23]

Lady Jess wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Honestly, I don't know.  People have different preferences for dialogue and I've heard all of it at some point.  If you really like his unhardened lines, I'd wait til right before the Landsmeet.  I tend to do it at appropriate RP moments.

I really WISH there was a way to do this without dealing with Goldanna. There are so many little moments it could be done. Such as when he yells at you about Connor/isolde, or right at Flemeth's with "why would Loghain do this", When recruiting Zevran, talking to Jowan, I'm sure there are others. My favorite time to do it for RP reasons would be after he tells you about his birthright. But to do it, you have to drag him to Denerim and visit this Goldanna woman that has nothing to do with whatever situation you RP would be the time to harden him.

I would still take him to see his sister as soon as possible, so it's actually pretty convenient. I'm glad it's not the Connor/Isolde thing, because we're always in complete agreement about that. Really, Goldana's is the best place without making it fit into roleplay that's relationship dependant.

Huh... ToP again. *Goes to make a picture*

Oh I'm not saying skip Goldanna completely. That should still be his personal quest, and the option could be there. But not the ONLY option to harden him. My HNF would have done it when he asked about Loghain at Flemeth's, My Mage at Jowan, my City Elf with Zevran, my Dalish it fit to do it at Goldanna's. My DNF would have done it after meeeting Bhelen, and my DCF the same thing Bhelen and Mam Brosca.  People being out for themselves is everywhere.

I agree, but I don't know if the situations you mentioned above (except Loghain) would have had as much of an impact on him as Goldanna. Yes, they are examples of people being out for themselves but they are not personal enough to him to have the same effect.

ETA: I guess I agree that the best time to harden him would be based on the rp. I think I've gotten to the point  with my favorite Cousland and Surana where I've stoped rping and overthink them based on my preferences.

Modifié par Yankee23, 21 septembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[Zjarcal]

Lady Jess wrote...

I really WISH there was a way to do this without dealing with Goldanna. There are so many little moments it could be done. Such as when he yells at you about Connor/isolde, or right at Flemeth's with "why would Loghain do this", When recruiting Zevran, talking to Jowan, I'm sure there are others. My favorite time to do it for RP reasons would be after he tells you about his birthright. But to do it, you have to drag him to Denerim and visit this Goldanna woman that has nothing to do with whatever situation you RP would be the time to harden him.

The Connor/Isolde conversation would've been a great moment to "harden" him in my view.

This was a situation where realistically speaking, a sacrifice had to be made. Yes, I know the game lets you get away home free with the unrealistic mages option, an option that in my view should've also carried consequences (such as Teagan dying or the rest of the village burned down).

Had it been done like that, the conversation with Alistair could've delved into how sometimes we don't get the perfect ending we want, no matter how hard we try (which I feel is how Redcliffe should've gone). That would've been a nice alternative to having to harden him during Goldanna's quest.

[Yankee23]

We need an Alistair on this page.

[Lady Jess]

Honestly, I'd be happy hardening him at the Ferelden equivalent of McDonald's during a dicussion about an order mixup if it meant I could play!

[Reika]

Wow, those are some really bright teeth. Think he took his armor polish to them?

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

I really WISH there was a way to do this without dealing with Goldanna. There are so many little moments it could be done. Such as when he yells at you about Connor/isolde, or right at Flemeth's with "why would Loghain do this", When recruiting Zevran, talking to Jowan, I'm sure there are others. My favorite time to do it for RP reasons would be after he tells you about his birthright. But to do it, you have to drag him to Denerim and visit this Goldanna woman that has nothing to do with whatever situation you RP would be the time to harden him.

The Connor/Isolde conversation would've been a great moment to "harden" him in my view.

This was a situation where realistically speaking, a sacrifice had to be made. Yes, I know the game lets you get away home free with the unrealistic mages option, an option that in my view should've also carried consequences (such as Teagan dying or the rest of the village burned down).

Had it been done like that, the conversation with Alistair could've delved into how sometimes we don't get the perfect ending we want, no matter how hard we try (which I feel is how Redcliffe should've gone). That would've been a nice alternative to having to harden him during Goldanna's quest.

And it would have been useless to a lot of people. They don't seem to have had the resources to specifically tailor different hardening situations to different kinds of character, and couldn't even do the entire conversation as it was conceived, so if it had to be in only one place, I think that Goldana was the best choice. Almost everyone will take him to see his sister.

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

I really WISH there was a way to do this without dealing with Goldanna. There are so many little moments it could be done. Such as when he yells at you about Connor/isolde, or right at Flemeth's with "why would Loghain do this", When recruiting Zevran, talking to Jowan, I'm sure there are others. My favorite time to do it for RP reasons would be after he tells you about his birthright. But to do it, you have to drag him to Denerim and visit this Goldanna woman that has nothing to do with whatever situation you RP would be the time to harden him.

The Connor/Isolde conversation would've been a great moment to "harden" him in my view.

This was a situation where realistically speaking, a sacrifice had to be made. Yes, I know the game lets you get away home free with the unrealistic mages option, an option that in my view should've also carried consequences (such as Teagan dying or the rest of the village burned down).

Had it been done like that, the conversation with Alistair could've delved into how sometimes we don't get the perfect ending we want, no matter how hard we try (which I feel is how Redcliffe should've gone). That would've been a nice alternative to having to harden him during Goldanna's quest.

And it would have been useless to a lot of people. They don't seem to have had the resources to specifically tailor different hardening situations to different kinds of character, and couldn't even do the entire conversation as it was conceived, so if it had to be in only one place, I think that Goldana was the best choice. Almost everyone will take him to see his sister.

Everyone has to do Redcliffe. Goldanna's quest you can choose to ignore it.

Not sure if you missed it, but I said that in the scenario I was picturing, there would've been no happy outcome for Redcliffe, hence Alistair always getting mad at the player for sacrificing Isolde/Connor, or having a breakdown for the consequences of going to the tower, thus leading to a "hardening" conversation.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:12 .

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

I really WISH there was a way to do this without dealing with Goldanna. There are so many little moments it could be done. Such as when he yells at you about Connor/isolde, or right at Flemeth's with "why would Loghain do this", When recruiting Zevran, talking to Jowan, I'm sure there are others. My favorite time to do it for RP reasons would be after he tells you about his birthright. But to do it, you have to drag him to Denerim and visit this Goldanna woman that has nothing to do with whatever situation you RP would be the time to harden him.

The Connor/Isolde conversation would've been a great moment to "harden" him in my view.

This was a situation where realistically speaking, a sacrifice had to be made. Yes, I know the game lets you get away home free with the unrealistic mages option, an option that in my view should've also carried consequences (such as Teagan dying or the rest of the village burned down).

Had it been done like that, the conversation with Alistair could've delved into how sometimes we don't get the perfect ending we want, no matter how hard we try (which I feel is how Redcliffe should've gone). That would've been a nice alternative to having to harden him during Goldanna's quest.

And it would have been useless to a lot of people. They don't seem to have had the resources to specifically tailor different hardening situations to different kinds of character, and couldn't even do the entire conversation as it was conceived, so if it had to be in only one place, I think that Goldana was the best choice. Almost everyone will take him to see his sister.

Everyone has to do Redcliffe as well.

Not sure if you missed it, but I said that in the scenario I was picturing, there would've been no happy outcome for Redcliffe, hence Alistair always getting mad at the player for sacrificing Isolde/Connor, or having a breakdown for the consequences of going to the tower.

Ah, well, I wouldn't have played that game, myself. Awakening was bleak enough, so....in that case, my opinion would be moot.

[Reika]

errant_knight wrote...

And it would have been useless to a lot of people. They don't seem to have had the resources to specifically tailor different hardening situations to different kinds of character, and couldn't even do the entire conversation as it was conceived, so if it had to be in only one place, I think that Goldana was the best choice. Almost everyone will take him to see his sister.

Especially if you did the Fade part first and thought that Goldanna was this sweetheart who was happy to be reunited with her little brother.

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...
Ah, well, I wouldn't have played that game, myself. Awakening was bleak enough, so....in that case, my opinion would be moot.

Alrighty then... I take it the Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep decision killed it for you?

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:15 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Ah, well, I wouldn't have played that game, myself. Awakening was bleak enough, so....in that case, my opinion would be moot.

Alrighty then... I take it the Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep decision killed it for you?

That was one of the best choices in all of DA, Origins included.

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Ah, well, I wouldn't have played that game, myself. Awakening was bleak enough, so....in that case, my opinion would be moot.

Alrighty then... I take it the Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep decision killed it for you?

Yep, things were going fairly well up until then.

I can't even get out of the mage's tower in that origin, because I can't find a way to deal with the situation that I don't find too murky.
 There's a reason that Alistair and my PC get along so swimmingly, heh...

Modifié par errant_knight, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:22 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Ah, well, I wouldn't have played that game, myself. Awakening was bleak enough, so....in that case, my opinion would be moot.

Alrighty then... I take it the Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep decision killed it for you?

That was one of the best choices in all of DA, Origins included.

I agree. It was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" moment. A truly gut wrenching decision that made the ending of Awakening a lot more memorable. Too bad defending Amaranthine leads to such a "meh" fight.

But I suppose not everyone likes those kinds of decisions.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:23 .

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Ah, well, I wouldn't have played that game, myself. Awakening was bleak enough, so....in that case, my opinion would be moot.

Alrighty then... I take it the Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep decision killed it for you?

That was one of the best choices in all of DA, Origins included.

If one likes that sort of thing. If one doesn't it makes one feel a tad ill.

[Reika]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Alrighty then... I take it the Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep decision killed it for you?

That was one of the best choices in all of DA, Origins included.

It was an interesting choice at least. At first I thought the upgrades on Vigil's Keep were like the Normandy in ME2, so needless to say I was a little astonished that when I went to save Amaranthine confident that while my keep did survive, not all of my people there did.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
I agree. It was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" moment. A truly gut wrenching decision that made the ending of Awakening a lot more memorable. Too bad defending Amaranthine leads to such a "meh" fight.

But I suppose not everyone likes those kinds of decisions.

That was my only regret. Such wasted potential. Amaranthine had walls that could have been used! When I first when to the city I was like "Cool! we can actualy walk on the walls! Now imagine a battle there with siege ladders and all that!".
Yea, how big of a meeh that was.

But the choice as a whole? Loved it. And it mattered greatly to my plans for the country.

Besides, it wasn't that murky. If the Vigil is upgraded fully, it held. So I don't get why that choice is depressing.

[Zjarcal]

To be fair, defending Amranthing with a fully upgraded Vigil's Keep is a fairly happy ending.

EDIT: 'd by KoP

And yeah, fighting across the walls in Amaranthine would've been epic.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Ah, well, I wouldn't have played that game, myself. Awakening was bleak enough, so....in that case, my opinion would be moot.

Alrighty then... I take it the Amaranthine/Vigil's Keep decision killed it for you?

Yep, things were going fairly well up until then.

I can't even get out of the mage's tower in that origin, because I can't find a way to deal with the situation that I don't find too murky.
 There's a reason that Alistair and my PC get along so swimmingly, heh...

I had that problem with mages. I finally played Amell as Jowan's friend and trusting Irving enough that she'd run to him to help her friend, and when that failed she helped him herself, and told Irving off when caught (You don't care about any of the apprentices).  And Jaina, well she's 100% loyal to Jowan, and helped him out of friendship and hope that she'd escape herself.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...
If one likes that sort of thing. If one doesn't it makes one feel a tad ill.

You do realise that you can save both the city and the vigil right?

But anyways, it's tastes. I for one absolutely abhor the cheap 3rd way out of the Connor issue.

I had planned to do that choice for Aurora Cousland, just to get Alistair's approval up. But I respected Aurora too much to make that choice.

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
I agree. It was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" moment. A truly gut wrenching decision that made the ending of Awakening a lot more memorable. Too bad defending Amaranthine leads to such a "meh" fight.

But I suppose not everyone likes those kinds of decisions.

That was my only regret. Such wasted potential. Amaranthine had walls that could have been used! When I first when to the city I was like "Cool! we can actualy walk on the walls! Now imagine a battle there with siege ladders and all that!".
Yea, how big of a meeh that was.

But the choice as a whole? Loved it. And it mattered greatly to my plans for the country.

Besides, it wasn't that murky. If the Vigil is upgraded fully, it held. So I don't get why that choice is depressing.

I agree.

For Queen and Chancellor, I'll save the city.  My Chancellor Amell feels as strongly as if she were married to Alistair, so she'd choose the same way a queen would.

My Dalish and Surana? They'll likely let Amaranthine go and defend the keep.  Surana will for sure. Really not sure if my Dalish will even DO Awakening, none of it really fits her character.

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
If one likes that sort of thing. If one doesn't it makes one feel a tad ill.

You do realise that you can save both the city and the vigil right?

But anyways, it's tastes. I for one absolutely abhor the cheap 3rd way out of the Connor issue.

I had planned to do that choice for Aurora Cousland, just to get Alistair's approval up. But I respected Aurora too much to make that choice.

Really?

[Giggles_Manically]

Its not very nice as an elf or a mage who leaves Amaranthine to burn.

AN elf mage is just asking for it.



Return of the King did an awomse job at fighting on a sieged wall, but in Awakening its jog around the block, kill some spawn.