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[MelRedux]

Sialater wrote...

Last I checked we were talking about Alistair as king, not Cailan.

Did someone say Alistair as King?

[jenncgf]

errant_knight wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, just to drag it back in... Would Alistair make overtures to Orlais?

I think it first depends on what you mean by "overtures".  Politically, maybe.  Romantically, I highly doubt it given Ferelden's recent bad relations with Orlais.  Even if Alistair were wililng to consider it, I don't think the Ferelden nobility would even begin to accept it until at least the current older generation - the ones who fought against the Orlesian occupancy - were dead.

As far as politically, I think he would still have trouble with the Bannorn, even if Alistair himself doesn't seem to have difficult with Orlais.  You don't really get any undercurrent of resent, for instance, when he talks about the Orlesian Wardens, though that could be in part because they are primarily Wardens and secondarily Orlesian in his mind.

Still, in many ways the king rules at the sufferance of the nobles, and I think they would be perfectly willing to rebel against him should enough of them resist an attempt on Alistair's behalf to treat with Orlais.  Anything that he did would probably have to be done very slowly, and later in his rule when he has hopefully convinced the Bannorn that he is competent and trustworthy.

Guys, take it to the Cailan thread.... We don't want to get shut down.

Uh, whut?  I think you misread there, errant.  That entire post was about Alistair.

ANYWAY, if you listen to the party banter between Wynne and Alistair in RtO, they sort of touch on the idea of that.  It sounded to me like Alistair was all for peace with Orlais when Wynne reassured him that 'it might not happen in our lifetime, but cooler heads will prevail' or somesuch.  I always thought that this would mean that Alistair would at least try to keep peaceful relations with Ferelden's neighbors.

Modifié par jenncgf, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Sandtigress]

Sarah1281 wrote...

For a Cousland Warden, I could see that. For an elf, mage, or dwarf, however...I know he lists fertility as one of the reasons but it really doesn't matter if he and the non-Cousland Warden have twelve kids because he only needs a kid so he'll have an heir to the throne and there's no way a child who is half-dwarf, the child of a mage and at risk of being a mage or having mage children who can't inherit themselves, or an elf-blooded child will be accepted on the throne anytime soon.

I've always been of the opinion that to him the fertility thing is the most important - he'd like to imagine he could work it out otherwise.  At the same time though, I don't think he's completely ignorant to the fact that the Bannorn would not accept a half-elven child or a mage on the throne especially.  I could see a llittle more leeway for a dwarf, since they're not explicitly considered less than human, but even so, they're not human, and Ferelden is a primarily human country.

Still though, to Alistair the fact that you're elven/dwarven/a mage is part of the charm and I think he'd try to find a way to make it work, even if he kenw he was going to fight a losing battle.  But his dedication to duty and doing what's right makes the infertility the main issue - it is his duty to have an heir of some sort and it's just not possible with a Warden lover.

[Yankee23]

Sialater wrote...

Well, just to drag it back in... Would Alistair make overtures to Orlais?

Yes, if he thought it would be good for Fereldan. I don't think it would be in the form of a marrige or something that would "join" the 2 nations, some small trade agreements or whatever to help develop peaceful relations between the two. 

[jenncgf]

Mel, LOVE the crown. Very kingly.

[Sialater]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Last I checked we were talking about Alistair as king, not Cailan.

Did someone say Alistair as King?

I nearly spit Sprite all over my monitor. 

"My, what a big... sword... you have, my dear Alistair."

[SurelyForth]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, just to drag it back in... Would Alistair make overtures to Orlais?

He apparently doesn't mind what Cailan was doing. Or was too blind to understand what was happening. 

In either case, I would worry.

I think he was thinking only in terms of aid. He was frustrated because, in his mind, they needed all the help they could get against the Blight and Cailan's efforts had been undone by his death.

[Sandtigress]

Sialater wrote...

Frankly, I think the overtures (political -- I doubt he'd offer himself in marriage) would be few at first. And only if he were hardened. But he'd not cut them off at the knees, so to speak.

lol Unless she were a snippy swamp witch or a blood mage....But yeah, I think he'd see the necessity of having Orlais as a political ally, especially considering how weak Ferelden is in the face of both the civil war AND the Blight.  He is, at least, perfectly willing to accept the aid of the Orlesian Wardens and their accompanying chevaliers.

He would still have to dance around the nobility a lot - something I'm not sure he'd be capable of doing early in his reign on his own, but hopefully Eamon, given his marriage to an Orlesian woman, would be willing to guide him through the steps at first.  Really, it would be stupid to alienate the one country who has easy land access to Ferelden soil at a point where Ferelden is so weak, and has an untested, untrained king (regardless of the fact that I think Alistair will prove to be a very good king as time progresses).

Alistair is naive and uneducated in politics, it's true, but he's not stupid, despite his many claims to the contrary.

[jenncgf]

Sialater wrote...

"My, what a big... sword... you have, my dear Alistair."

Hey, it's not about the size of the weapon so much as the skill of its wielder! 

[errant_knight]

Yankee23 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Well, just to drag it back in... Would Alistair make overtures to Orlais?

Yes, if he thought it would be good for Fereldan. I don't think it would be in the form of a marrige or something that would "join" the 2 nations, some small trade agreements or whatever to help develop peaceful relations between the two. 

He was distressed that the peace treaties were never put in place, so yes. I think he'd like to see a formal peace between Ferelden and Orlais.


(Note: I wasn't referring to the posts that were about Alistair, but all the discussion of Celene's, Cailan, and Anora's ages, etc.)

Modifié par errant_knight, 23 septembre 2010 - 05:52 .

[Russalka]

jenncgf wrote...
Uh, whut?  I think you misread there, errant.  That entire post was about Alistair.

Hah, my jaded senses suddenly tingled and made me think that any discussion NOT about how cute Alistair looks in what picture is off-topic, or some incoherent ramblings about mods or saved games.

No, no, I enjoy the fun. It was the darker side of me. <_<


To add to the topic of "WWAD", I was extremely disappointed how they handled Alistair in Darkspawn Chronicles, how everything would fall apart if he was in charge, not our own Warden.
What would the writers think of Alistair in charge, as King, after all that.

If I get snippets of Alistair's crappy rulership in DA2, I am going to die.

[Sarah1281]

Sandtigress wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

For a Cousland Warden, I could see that. For an elf, mage, or dwarf, however...I know he lists fertility as one of the reasons but it really doesn't matter if he and the non-Cousland Warden have twelve kids because he only needs a kid so he'll have an heir to the throne and there's no way a child who is half-dwarf, the child of a mage and at risk of being a mage or having mage children who can't inherit themselves, or an elf-blooded child will be accepted on the throne anytime soon.

I've always been of the opinion that to him the fertility thing is the most important - he'd like to imagine he could work it out otherwise.  At the same time though, I don't think he's completely ignorant to the fact that the Bannorn would not accept a half-elven child or a mage on the throne especially.  I could see a llittle more leeway for a dwarf, since they're not explicitly considered less than human, but even so, they're not human, and Ferelden is a primarily human country.

Still though, to Alistair the fact that you're elven/dwarven/a mage is part of the charm and I think he'd try to find a way to make it work, even if he kenw he was going to fight a losing battle.  But his dedication to duty and doing what's right makes the infertility the main issue - it is his duty to have an heir of some sort and it's just not possible with a Warden lover.

So since both the fertility and the being unable to be accepted by the bannorn are problems, he's choosing to focus on the one that's more...fair, I guess, as it would apply to anyone who couldn't have kids and even Anora had to face pressure because of that? Do you think that if their fertility wasn't in question that he would have to face the reality of the bannorn's inability to accept it or he would attempt to make it work even though, again, they'd never accept her? 

[errant_knight]

Russalka wrote...

jenncgf wrote...
Uh, whut?  I think you misread there, errant.  That entire post was about Alistair.

Hah, my jaded senses suddenly tingled and made me think that any discussion NOT about how cute Alistair looks in what picture is off-topic, or some incoherent ramblings about mods or saved games.

No, no, I enjoy the fun. It was the darker side of me. <_<


To add to the topic of "WWAD", I was extremely disappointed how they handled Alistair in Darkspawn Chronicles, how everything would fall apart if he was in charge, not our own Warden.
What would the writers think of Alistair in charge, as King, after all that.

If I get snippets of Alistair's crappy rulership in DA2, I am going to die.

Darkspawn Chronicles completely abandoned characterization. It can't be seen as a real reflection of the game world in any way. It was all about what armies they wanted who to have, and making it possible for the darkspawn to win by making every character but the warden useless. It was a bad joke.

[Sialater]

Russalka wrote...

jenncgf wrote...
Uh, whut?  I think you misread there, errant.  That entire post was about Alistair.

Hah, my jaded senses suddenly tingled and made me think that any discussion NOT about how cute Alistair looks in what picture is off-topic, or some incoherent ramblings about mods or saved games.

No, no, I enjoy the fun. It was the darker side of me. <_<


To add to the topic of "WWAD", I was extremely disappointed how they handled Alistair in Darkspawn Chronicles, how everything would fall apart if he was in charge, not our own Warden.
What would the writers think of Alistair in charge, as King, after all that.

If I get snippets of Alistair's crappy rulership in DA2, I am going to die.

I won't die... I'll just get pissed.  I'm already upset at BW over Horizon.  It'll just go on my list.

[jenncgf]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 So since both the fertility and the being unable to be accepted by the bannorn are problems, he's choosing to focus on the one that's more...fair, I guess, as it would apply to anyone who couldn't have kids and even Anora had to face pressure because of that? Do you think that if their fertility wasn't in question that he would have to face the reality of the bannorn's inability to accept it or he would attempt to make it work even though, again, they'd never accept her? 

Hmm, I would say, if fertility wasn't an issue, he might still have a problem with making a dwarf, elf, or (for the sake of argument) qunari his queen.  He's perfectly willing to give elves positions of power but I do remember that one line for an elf (don't remember if dwarves get it too) about him not minding at all, but to have the landsmeet accept, a non-human queen would be going for a big change that they're just not ready for.  He personally would not care one whit about it, but he would still see his duty to keep the country united and he'd probably take steps to avoid antagonizing the lords of the land with something so huge.

[SurelyForth]

General DA conversation is fine, especially if it's civil discussion. If the Off-topic train starts spanning multiple pages or gets heated, then a suggestion to take it to another thread or a new thread would be appropriate.

Pictures of any and all Alistairs are fine, as long as they are board appropriate and we remember the rule of removing quoted images when they're on the same page as the original post.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 23 septembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[errant_knight]

jenncgf wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 So since both the fertility and the being unable to be accepted by the bannorn are problems, he's choosing to focus on the one that's more...fair, I guess, as it would apply to anyone who couldn't have kids and even Anora had to face pressure because of that? Do you think that if their fertility wasn't in question that he would have to face the reality of the bannorn's inability to accept it or he would attempt to make it work even though, again, they'd never accept her? 

Hmm, I would say, if fertility wasn't an issue, he might still have a problem with making a dwarf, elf, or (for the sake of argument) qunari his queen.  He's perfectly willing to give elves positions of power but I do remember that one line for an elf (don't remember if dwarves get it too) about him not minding at all, but to have the landsmeet accept, a non-human queen would be going for a big change that they're just not ready for.  He personally would not care one whit about it, but he would still see his duty to keep the country united and he'd probably take steps to avoid antagonizing the lords of the land with something so huge.

Agreed. They've just been through one civil war. He's not going to court another by doing something that he knows the nobility would be unable to accept. It's just the reality of the world he lives in, however unpalatable he may find it.

[MelRedux]

@Grumpy - Well thank you, sir!  That pic could never be possible without you

@Sia - LOL...Yes, damn Horizon!  I was all "OMG YAY!!! " and then "Wait, WTF!?!? "

I have a feeling Alistair will just be mentioned in DA2, and we won't see him.  And if we do, it will be ala Awakening.

[errant_knight]

Mel_Redux wrote...

@Grumpy - Well thank you, sir!  That pic could never be possible without you

@Sia - LOL...Yes, damn Horizon!  I was all "OMG YAY!!! " and then "Wait, WTF!?!? "

I have a feeling Alistair will just be mentioned in DA2, and we won't see him.  And if we do, it will be ala Awakening .

I think they've already raised expectations beyond just a mention, and done little to undo that, so I think it will be more than just a mention. As to whether it will be as meaningless as in Awakening, that's hard to say at this point.

[Sandtigress]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

For a Cousland Warden, I could see that. For an elf, mage, or dwarf, however...I know he lists fertility as one of the reasons but it really doesn't matter if he and the non-Cousland Warden have twelve kids because he only needs a kid so he'll have an heir to the throne and there's no way a child who is half-dwarf, the child of a mage and at risk of being a mage or having mage children who can't inherit themselves, or an elf-blooded child will be accepted on the throne anytime soon.

I've always been of the opinion that to him the fertility thing is the most important - he'd like to imagine he could work it out otherwise.  At the same time though, I don't think he's completely ignorant to the fact that the Bannorn would not accept a half-elven child or a mage on the throne especially.  I could see a llittle more leeway for a dwarf, since they're not explicitly considered less than human, but even so, they're not human, and Ferelden is a primarily human country.

Still though, to Alistair the fact that you're elven/dwarven/a mage is part of the charm and I think he'd try to find a way to make it work, even if he kenw he was going to fight a losing battle.  But his dedication to duty and doing what's right makes the infertility the main issue - it is his duty to have an heir of some sort and it's just not possible with a Warden lover.

So since both the fertility and the being unable to be accepted by the bannorn are problems, he's choosing to focus on the one that's more...fair, I guess, as it would apply to anyone who couldn't have kids and even Anora had to face pressure because of that? Do you think that if their fertility wasn't in question that he would have to face the reality of the bannorn's inability to accept it or he would attempt to make it work even though, again, they'd never accept her? 

I think he'd like to think he could make it work - that he'd put up more of a fight about ending the relationship.  I also think though that it would only be a matter of time before he had to face that it would never pass the approval of the nobles.

Now, if there was an heir (of his own) in place, I think he might be more willing to cause a stir since he had already done what he considered to be the duty standing in the way of what he wanted.  How much leeway he could get away with though is up for discussion, I think.

[jenncgf]

Mel_Redux wrote...

@Grumpy - Well thank you, sir!  That pic could never be possible without you

@Sia - LOL...Yes, damn Horizon!  I was all "OMG YAY!!! " and then "Wait, WTF!?!? "

I have a feeling Alistair will just be mentioned in DA2, and we won't see him.  And if we do, it will be ala Awakening.

Yeah, I agree with you there, Mel.  Alistair is important to Ferelden but other countries won't care about whether he's king unless they go to war with Ferelden.  And even then, whoever is general is more important to the war.

[Lady Jess]

I need to get some noble clothing into my game for Alistair in camp. His armor keps hitting Jaina in the head, are there any mods for that?

[MelRedux]

jenncgf wrote...

Yeah, I agree with you there, Mel.  Alistair is important to Ferelden but other countries won't care about whether he's king unless they go to war with Ferelden.  And even then, whoever is general is more important to the war.

It will be sad withoug Alistair

But Bioware always produces excellent LIs, so I'm excited to see the next pixel love of my life

[jenncgf]

Mel_Redux wrote...

jenncgf wrote...

Yeah, I agree with you there, Mel.  Alistair is important to Ferelden but other countries won't care about whether he's king unless they go to war with Ferelden.  And even then, whoever is general is more important to the war.

It will be sad withoug Alistair

But Bioware always produces excellent LIs, so I'm excited to see the next pixel love of my life

ABSOLUTELY!

I'm hoping to get a redhead.  COLLECT THEM ALL!