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The Alistair Gush Thread: *Squee*


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#8226
mellifera

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rak72 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Eh, I see the whole DR thing as you both using each other. Who gets more out of the exchange? I think Morrigan does but its just as viable an option to tell her to ****** off. So you can both get what you want out of an unfavorable situation or you can both get nothing. I'm not gonna be outraged when someone like Morrigan keeps a secret from me, because that is who she is. At the end of the day, she is still at your mercy and it is up to you. The whole victimised act or the anger at her having had a kid with him when you can't.... really, your problem. The decision to do the DR was not forced upon you, so I just don't really get the righteous indignation after the fact, really.


Besides the fact that she kept this from you, and you could have possibly found another way out had you known sooner,  not being able to have a kid with Alistair IS a problem for my PC, she feel terrible about this.  That being said, my "sister"  should have been more sensitive about how she handled all of this. 
Waiting until the last minute like that does kind of force the decision on you.  Like Alistair says, "sleep w/ Morigan or get eaten by an AD - how does one make such a choice".  At least if we knew sooner, if we still didn't want to recruit Loghain, we could have tourtured him before we killed him to find out where the GW making stuff was hidden.


I don't really see how telling you earlier would have helped at all. Do you really think that in the span of about a year or so, while you're out fighting, getting treaties, looking for the Holy Grail (why the Warden and Alistair didn't drink some Andraste tea or eat some Andraste brownies, I have no clue), and all the other crap you have hanging over your head, you would have been able to find an alternative when no Warden in history has? In the past they've all died to kill the Archdemon, if they had found a viable solution that doesn't involve dying, I think they would have used it before.

You know what is really forced on you? That one of you is going to die killing the Archdemon. Morrigan provides a way to avoid this, but it doesn't come without a price. If you're so offended, tell her to go f*ck herself and go to your death (or Alistair's) like you were going to before you were offered a choice. Either way there's no pretty fairytale ending, it's up to you to make the choice. Morrigan isn't holding Alistair at gunpoint and saying "If you don't make him impregnate me, I'm going to rape and kill him." She leaves it up to you, and leaves if you choose to say no to her offer.

And really, you want to torture Loghain? How is that any better than what he's done? Executing him for his crimes, fine, but torturing him? What gives you the right to be on any sort of moral high ground when you're willing to resort to the same tactics he is? Why you don't go off and take the ingredients yourself and make more Grey Wardens after the Landsmeet is really a foresight on the Wardens' side. It's not like Riordan didn't know where they were, if he knew he could make Loghain a Warden by that point.

ToP
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Modifié par yukidama, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:23 .


#8227
Sarah1281

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rak72 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Eh, I see the whole DR thing as you both using each other. Who gets more out of the exchange? I think Morrigan does but its just as viable an option to tell her to ****** off. So you can both get what you want out of an unfavorable situation or you can both get nothing. I'm not gonna be outraged when someone like Morrigan keeps a secret from me, because that is who she is. At the end of the day, she is still at your mercy and it is up to you. The whole victimised act or the anger at her having had a kid with him when you can't.... really, your problem. The decision to do the DR was not forced upon you, so I just don't really get the righteous indignation after the fact, really.


Besides the fact that she kept this from you, and you could have possibly found another way out had you known sooner,  not being able to have a kid with Alistair IS a problem for my PC, she feel terrible about this.  That being said, my "sister"  should have been more sensitive about how she handled all of this. 
Waiting until the last minute like that does kind of force the decision on you.  Like Alistair says, "sleep w/ Morigan or get eaten by an AD - how does one make such a choice".  At least if we knew sooner, if we still didn't want to recruit Loghain, we could have tourtured him before we killed him to find out where the GW making stuff was hidden.

Why would you need to torture Loghain? Riordan's clearly found the GW-making stuff and so there's nothing really stopping you but game limitations from recruiting whoever.

And, honestly, what are the odds that there would have been any other way out of someone having to die to kill the Archdemon if Morrigan had told you at Flemeth's hut? Not only were you kind of busy but it were that easy then you'd think that someone would have found a way.

#8228
KnightofPhoenix

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So Morrigan is being hated because she provided for you a way to live with Alistair? I'd think all of you would go down on your knees and thank her for it.

Shouldn't you hate Duncan and the Wardens more for not telling you? I mean Duncan had 6 months to tell Alistair and he didn't. Why should Morrigan when she wants something in exchange?

#8229
Reika

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So Morrigan is being hated because she provided for you a way to live with Alistair? I'd think all of you would go down on your knees and thank her for it.
Shouldn't you hate Duncan and the Wardens more for not telling you? I mean Duncan had 6 months to tell Alistair and he didn't. Why should Morrigan when she wants something in exchange?


Yeah, not getting the Morrigan hate myself.

I think the reason why Duncan didn't say anything to Alistair is that he didn't want Alistair to go get himself killed.

#8230
mellifera

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I'm not gonna get on my knees and kiss her feet... it's an exchange. I give her what she wants, she gives me what I want xD We both benefit, she's not just doing it out of her kind, altruistic nature, lmao.

Modifié par yukidama, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:30 .


#8231
Lady Jess

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LadyDamodred wrote...

My PCs friggin <3 Morrigan for giving them an out. Would they have liked to know this info a little sooner instead of getting blindsided? Yes. But at the end of the day, they and Alistair are alive because of Morrigan and they're grateful.


I think that's my only O.o moment. She knew, and blindsided me, just after Riordan smacked us with the reality stick. But like I said, they feel betrayed by both for a bit, but they get past it, I think it's the "I may not always prove worthy of your friendship" line that keeps me from utter indignation and perma-anger really.  I get to live hapily ever after with my LI, and really that's worth it.

Edit: In a way I think it's a sacrifice for her too, she has her first friend/first love and has to leave them, and has to sleep with a man she hates (frankly I think she's a virgin too...don't know why, but I do).

Modifié par Lady Jess, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:30 .


#8232
KnightofPhoenix

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Reika wrote...
I think the reason why Duncan didn't say anything to Alistair is that he didn't want Alistair to go get himself killed.


I think you overestimate how much Duncan cares for Alistair. The blight must be ended no matter the cost, why does he think that he shouldn't tell Alistair, when there are only a couple dozen wardens in Ferelden and every single one of them counts?

The only reason I can think of is Duncan trying to preserve Alistair's life to put him on the throne if need be.
Still, not so smart.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:30 .


#8233
KnightofPhoenix

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Lady Jess wrote...
frankly I think she's a virgin too...don't know why, but I do.


No, she isn't. Unfortunately.
She says she's been with men before.

#8234
SurelyForth

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I have to agree with Yuki and KoP here. Morrigan has your ticket to happiness. Either take it and live with the consequences (of which there are few immediate ones besides the PC and Alistair getting to survive to have their own hot monkey sex after the Blight) or don't and suffer.



Just be glad that you're not, you know, the man who loves her. That's when feelings should be hurt for real.

#8235
Lady Jess

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Reika wrote...
I think the reason why Duncan didn't say anything to Alistair is that he didn't want Alistair to go get himself killed.


I think you overestimate how much Duncan cares for Alistair. The blight must be ended no matter the cost, why does he think that he shouldn't tell Alistair, when there are only a couple dozen wardens in Ferelden and every single one of them counts?

The only reason I can think of is Duncan trying to preserve Alistair's life to put him on the throne if need be.
Still, not so smart.


Yeah, that is a stretch, since the joining pretty much shortens his life to start with. If that was the case I think he'd have either left him in the chantry, or recruited him as a straight soldier sans joining.

#8236
Lady Jess

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
frankly I think she's a virgin too...don't know why, but I do.


No, she isn't. Unfortunately.
She says she's been with men before.


She's never said that to my PC's, maybe a male PC only dialog?

#8237
Giggles_Manically

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
frankly I think she's a virgin too...don't know why, but I do.


No, she isn't. Unfortunately.
She says she's been with men before.

Didnt you get around to ahem, inform them of your "displeasure" yet KoP?

#8238
Briiel

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So Morrigan is being hated because she provided for you a way to live with Alistair? I'd think all of you would go down on your knees and thank her for it.
Shouldn't you hate Duncan and the Wardens more for not telling you? I mean Duncan had 6 months to tell Alistair and he didn't. Why should Morrigan when she wants something in exchange?


I agree with this because in the storyline Rhiodin asks if Duncan had told you the way the archdemon dies. Both you and Alistair are very clueless about it . Rhio then goes on to say blah blah one of us dies.

#8239
Tigress M

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I think you overestimate how much Duncan cares for Alistair. The blight must be ended no matter the cost, why does he think that he shouldn't tell Alistair, when there are only a couple dozen wardens in Ferelden and every single one of them counts?


I agree.  I think Duncan expected to be the one to take the final blow and knew Alistair well enough to know that he wouldn't let Duncan do that, if he knew what that blow would cost.  Now you've got me thinking of a ff piece where Duncan survives Ostagar and makes it to Denerim for the final battle, only to knock Alistair unconscious to keep him from taking the final blow.  

#8240
Reika

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Tigress M wrote...

I agree.  I think Duncan expected to be the one to take the final blow and knew Alistair well enough to know that he wouldn't let Duncan do that, if he knew what that blow would cost.  Now you've got me thinking of a ff piece where Duncan survives Ostagar and makes it to Denerim for the final battle, only to knock Alistair unconscious to keep him from taking the final blow.  


That could be amusing.

A: "Duncan?!"
D: "Hi Alistair. Bye Alistair." *knocks the kid out cold*

#8241
Addai

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cmessaz wrote...

Not nearly enough Alistair in the last few pages.
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Husband and I have this as our desktop now (well, my version of it of course) and I have to say it's a little disconcerting.  Duncan's stare is intense when it's right in your face.  So I just move a few inches to the right and go :wub:.

#8242
rak72

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I don't think Riorden knows where the GW making stuff is until Log tells him when you are about to make him a GW. I'm not saying that you are going to find a way where no one dies, I'm saying that you can find a way where it isn't one of you. You could have at least had more time to come to terms with this ritual if that was the way you wanted to go. And no one ever claimed the GW has to be on the moral high ground. There are some who would resort to torture, some who find it reprehensable, some who think the DR is awsome, some who find it reprehensable. My GW cares about these things in this order: ending the blight, Alistair survives, She survives. She'll do what she has to to make that happen. She does not necasarily like her available choices, she would prefer not to risk whatever it is that an OGB might mean in the future, but if it means survival, so be it. But she does not appreciate morrigan calling her sister and pretending to be her friend while keeping all of this from her.

And after having Log's men tring to kill her in every town she entered, and having his minion slaughter her familiy, she would have no problem what so ever torturing him if it meant keeping her & Al alive.

#8243
Lady Jess

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Briiel wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So Morrigan is being hated because she provided for you a way to live with Alistair? I'd think all of you would go down on your knees and thank her for it.
Shouldn't you hate Duncan and the Wardens more for not telling you? I mean Duncan had 6 months to tell Alistair and he didn't. Why should Morrigan when she wants something in exchange?


I agree with this because in the storyline Rhiodin asks if Duncan had told you the way the archdemon dies. Both you and Alistair are very clueless about it . Rhio then goes on to say blah blah one of us dies.


I don't hate her. I don't really see anyone say they ouright hate her, but I might have missed it. I ONLY have the one problem. And it isn't JUST her, it's Duncan and Riordan too. It's the not being told by the order, or by ANYONE that knew until Zero Hour. I mean seriously, Duncan HAD time to tell each recruit on the road. Ostagar was a long trip from ANY Origin. And I don't buy secrecy past therecruitment itself. Because the minute he recruits or conscripts you, there is no turning back. So might as well spill the beans.

Maybe Morrigan assumed we already knew I suppose. But I'd still, at some predetermined approval level, liked to have had a heads up from my friend, my sister. Maybe after 'killing' her mother for her. Even something a little cryptic like "You'll be rewarded, though it may not seem as such when the time comes".

And every one of my Wardens when it's time for WH will go out of concern and to make sure she's ok, and say goodbye. Except for maybe my Dalish who so far is the only one that really didn't care for her much, trust issues. Though she still took the DR. She'll go out of curiosity.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:48 .


#8244
Addai

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rak72 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...


She may say nice things to the Warden, but if she dosent get what she wants she will leave Ferelden to burn and that is why I dont like her.

You know, Alistair does the same thing. Except what he wants is Loghain dead instead of an OGB.


Alistairs motivaton for comming along with you was NOT killing Loghain.  The ONLY reason Morrigan was with you was theOGB.

I don't think that's true.  I believe her when she says she wanted to see the ocean and mountains, and I believe both she and Flemeth wanted to help end the Blight.  She's risked her life for the Warden countless times by the time you get to the DR.  If all she wanted was the OGB, all she would have to do is cast some hex on a Grey Warden and rape him.  The Revelation comic makes it clear that if the Warden has befriended her, she is doing it as much to help and to save her only friend's life as because she wants the OGB.  Same for if the Warden has romanced her.  Not that she wouldn't try for the OGB anyway, but if those conditions are present, the story makes clear that her motives are more complex and not entirely selfish.  In fact, I see her having to leave society just after she has found her first friend or her love as a melancholy thing.  She is doing it because she sees it as her duty.

Modifié par Addai67, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:52 .


#8245
cmessaz

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Lady Jess wrote...

Briiel wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So Morrigan is being hated because she provided for you a way to live with Alistair? I'd think all of you would go down on your knees and thank her for it.
Shouldn't you hate Duncan and the Wardens more for not telling you? I mean Duncan had 6 months to tell Alistair and he didn't. Why should Morrigan when she wants something in exchange?


I agree with this because in the storyline Rhiodin asks if Duncan had told you the way the archdemon dies. Both you and Alistair are very clueless about it . Rhio then goes on to say blah blah one of us dies.


I don't hate her. I don't really see anyone say they ouright hate her, but I might have missed it. I ONLY have the one problem. And it isn't JUST her, it's Duncan and Riordan too. It's the not being told by the order, or by ANYONE that knew until Zero Hour. I mean seriously, Duncan HAD time to tell each recruit on the road. Ostagar was a long trip from ANY Origin. And I don't buy secrecy past therecruitment itself. Because the minute he recruits or conscripts you, there is no turning back. So might as well spill the beans.

Maybe Morrigan assumed we already knew I suppose. But I'd still, at some predetermined approval level, liked to have had a heads up from my friend, my sister. Maybe after 'killing' her mother for her. Even something a little cryptic like "You'll be rewarded, though it may not seem as such when the time comes".

And every one of my Wardens when it's time for WH will go out of concern and to make sure she's ok, and say goodbye. Except for maybe my Dalish who so far is the only one that really didn't care for her much, trust issues. Though she still took the DR. She'll go out of curiosity.

Lol, that is it right there. I like Morrigan and I've said it a few times. Saying I don't approve of the way she handled it and hate that last line doesn't = me hating her. :mellow:

#8246
Merilsell

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yukidama wrote...

Eh, I see the whole DR thing as you both using each other. Who gets more out of the exchange? I think Morrigan does but its just as viable an option to tell her to ****** off. So you can both get what you want out of an unfavorable situation or you can both get nothing. I'm not gonna be outraged when someone like Morrigan keeps a secret from me, because that is who she is. At the end of the day, she is still at your mercy and it is up to you. The whole victimised act or the anger at her having had a kid with him when you can't.... really, your problem. The decision to do the DR was not forced upon you, so I just don't really get the righteous indignation after the fact, really.


This.

I love my Morri, she is one of my fave characters. Although I could slap her in that moment in Redcliffe for not trusting me earlier with the OGB fact.

#8247
KnightofPhoenix

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
frankly I think she's a virgin too...don't know why, but I do.


No, she isn't. Unfortunately.
She says she's been with men before.

Didnt you get around to ahem, inform them of your "displeasure" yet KoP?


Going to the mirror proved too tempting.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 septembre 2010 - 02:49 .


#8248
Giggles_Manically

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
frankly I think she's a virgin too...don't know why, but I do.


No, she isn't. Unfortunately.
She says she's been with men before.

Didnt you get around to ahem, inform them of your "displeasure" yet KoP?


Going to the mirror proved too tempting.

hahaheh...
Sooooffttiieee! :wizard:

#8249
Lady Jess

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cmessaz wrote...

Lol, that is it right there. I like Morrigan and I've said it a few times. Saying I don't approve of the way she handled it and hate that last line doesn't = me hating her. :mellow:


Second to Alistair, she's my favorite companion.  Has been from the beginning.

#8250
rak72

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
frankly I think she's a virgin too...don't know why, but I do.


No, she isn't. Unfortunately.
She says she's been with men before.

When does she say this?