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[LadyDamodred]

Zjarcal wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
I happen to hold honesty in higher esteem than politeness for the sake of being polite.

I actually agree with this. Still, that doesn't mean he should insult a friend's lover in a conversation he started. Keeping his mouth shut would be both honest (as he isn't lying) and polite.

Out of curiousity because I can't remember, does he give the b!tch line if you don't choose the "You don't like her very much, do you?" option?

Alright, just saw it in the toolset. He won't say it if the PC doesn't ask that question.
Point for Alistair... well, not really, but at least there's a way to avoid the line in the convo.

I thought so.  Hey, that's what you PC gets for failing to so utterly see the antagonism between Alistair and Morrigan.  He just spells it out for you. 

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:23 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
So...yes, she should apologize?  That's what you're saying?  It's just less called for because she doesn't use a bad word?

That sort of boggles my mind, actually.  I consider mocking someone for grieving over the loss of the only family they've ever known to be a way more egregious insult than calling someone a b!tch when they act like it.

Much less called for. But if you want her to apologise, go ahead.
Like I said before, had Alistair called her stupid, I would not have cared.

Calling someone a b*tch to the face of someone you know likes her, is incredibly insulting. 
And that's not to mention the differnce in upbringing and how Morrigan does not know the concept of loss.

[mellifera]

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Alrighty, so by that same token, Morrigan should also apologize when she insults Alistair, right?

She insults him in his face most of the time.
And fool is not nearly the same as "complete and utter b*tch".
Unless you feel so strongly about the word "fool".

Had Alistair said "she's stupid", I would not have cared. ITs the word he uses that pisses me off.

But she does insult him when talking to me.  So she should apologize, right?  Or are apologies only necessary if you use a vulgarity?

Edit:  I guess maybe for you it is the use of the vulgarity, which seems not very important to me.  For me, it's more the fact that she constantly belittles the man I love even knowing how I feel about him, not the names.

Note, I do not expect Morrigan to apologize.

Yeah, for example, even if you don't love him at that point, I think it's in bad form to make a joke about him killing himself when he is depressed over the events at Ostagar. "oh lol all your friends died? hah i'm surprised you haven't committed suicide!" Even if it was a joke, that's not cool either. It doesn't only have to be blatant name calling for it to be offensive and tactless. Or constantly making fun of him for being emotional over a huge personal loss. Again, I am not defending Alistair's right to call her that word, just don't see why some, not all expect an apology. If so the game should just be a big apology-fest back and forth for everything.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

yukidama wrote...
The Warden can also call her a **** (multiple times, like 4 or 5 different times in different convos), and I'd imagine if Alistair called her one to her face she would be no more hurt and respond the same way
Warden: I should have known you'd be a selfish ****.
Morrigan: I trust I am supposed to be shocked and dismayed by your language? Do not make me laugh.

And? How is that relevent?
My Warden never says that anyways.
And I never suggested Morrigan would care. Who is Alistair anyway for her to care? 
But like I said, it's not about him insulting Morrigan. It's him doing it to my face while he knows I like her.
And BTW, he was not at low approval when he said that, it was in fact somewhat high.

You said they weren't friends.  *shrugs*  As I already said, I would warrant an apology more at friend level than not.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
I thought so.  Hey, that's what you PC gets for failing to so utterly see the antagonism between Alistair and Morrigan.  He just spells it out for you. 

Still doesn't make it any less vulgar.
He could have said that he doesn't like her and be quiet afterwards.

And yes, that's what I get when I pretend that I care about his feeligns and ask him about them.

[Zjarcal]

Lady Jess wrote...

So after my Loghain WTF earlier, I checked it out on my Dalish and my mage...compliments abound! Darn the man, I haven't checked it on a dwarf but

Here's what he says to a Dwarf:

"You're no surface dwarf; I can see it your eyes. Smart of the Grey Wardens to look for new recruits in Orzammar.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
You said they weren't friends.  *shrugs*  As I already said, I would warrant an apology more at friend level than not.

I said they weren't *close* friends for Alistair to feel hismelf entitled to speak that way. And even if they were, I would not have tolerated it.

And why was he trying to waste my time with bonding then?

[errant_knight]

I'm wondering if the seriousness of that particular word (and not the one that Lady D brought up--I think we can all agree about that), differs from region to region, because it's really not something very serious. Also, why would Alistair apologise? He doesn't every stop thinking she's a (insert mildly insulting word here.) Why would he? She's on him from word go, calling him stupid when she knows nothing about him, mocking his grief, and generally throwing salt in every wound she can find. I usually end up being friends with Morrigan, but I've always wanted to have the ability to tell her to shut up, or get out.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
So...yes, she should apologize?  That's what you're saying?  It's just less called for because she doesn't use a bad word?
That sort of boggles my mind, actually.  I consider mocking someone for grieving over the loss of the only family they've ever known to be a way more egregious insult than calling someone a b!tch when they act like it.

Much less called for. But if you want her to apologise, go ahead.
Like I said before, had Alistair called her stupid, I would not have cared.
Calling someone a b*tch to the face of someone you know likes her, is incredibly insulting. 
And that's not to mention the differnce in upbringing and how Morrigan does not know the concept of loss.

I do not want Morrigan to apologize because that would be insulting to my intelligence.  My point is that what they each do is the exact same thing and that expecting one to apologize and not the other is unfair.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

I'm wondering if the seriousness of that particular word (and not the one that Lady D brought up--I think we can all agree about that), differs from region to region, because it's really not something very serious. Also, why would Alistair apologise? He doesn't every stop thinking she's a (insert mildly insulting word here.) Why would he? She's on him from word go, calling him stupid when she knows nothing about him, mocking his grief, and generally throwing salt in every wound she can find. I usually end up being friends with Morrigan, but I've always wanted to have the ability to tell her to shut up, or get out.

It is very serious where I come from.

He should apologise for insulting her to my face when he knows I like her. If that's his idea of being friends with me, no wonder why he failed so miserably.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
I do not want Morrigan to apologize because that would be insulting to my intelligence.  My point is that what they each do is the exact same thing and that expecting one to apologize and not the other is unfair.

No, it's not the exact same thing at all.

Because for me, when you insult a man's girl in this fashion, you are attacking his honor as much as hers.
It's not only him insulting Morrigan, it's a personal insult.

[Lady Jess]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

So after my Loghain WTF earlier, I checked it out on my Dalish and my mage...compliments abound! Darn the man, I haven't checked it on a dwarf but

Here's what he says to a Dwarf:

"You're no surface dwarf; I can see it your eyes. Smart of the Grey Wardens to look for new recruits in Orzammar.

Wha...lame!

[errant_knight]

@KoP
That's really not how the writers would have intended it, or expected it to be viewed.... Pretty much outside the cultural frame of reference here.

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

That's really not how the writers would have intended it, or expected it to be viewed....

I very much doubt the Cousland nobility would use that word and think it's not serious.

In fact I find it extremily weird that it's not considered serious.
I mean I can understand it beign a joke when used on guys. But on a woman, I find it incredibly insulting and vulgar.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
I do not want Morrigan to apologize because that would be insulting to my intelligence.  My point is that what they each do is the exact same thing and that expecting one to apologize and not the other is unfair.

No, it's not the exact same thing at all.
Because for me, when you insult a man's girl in this fashion, you are attacking his honor as much as hers.
It's not only him insulting Morrigan, it's a personal insult.

And it's the exact same thing when she does that to my PC and Alistair.  My god, on my Couslands, when she mocked Alistair grieving over the Wardens, I want to knock her teeth out.  I just watched my entire family slaughtered before me and you're going to say that to someone who experienced nearly the very same thing?

When she insults Alistair to my face, she's attacking my honor, my intelligence, my person because Alistair is the man I love.  And Morrigan and I are good friends!  But it's Morrigan.  I understand her and pity her in this case because she's unable to understand what it is that I've found.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
That's really not how the writers would have intended it, or expected it to be viewed....

I very much doubt the Cousland nobility would use that word and think it's not serious.
In fact I find it extremily weird that it's not considered serious.
I mean I can understand it beign a joke when used on guys. But on a woman, I find it incredibly insulting and vulgar.

This conversation occurs at least once a week for me, if not more frequently:

"You're such an effing b!tch, Lady D."
"I love you, too, Alan."

Just trying to point out how, for some people, it's really not much of an insult.  Calling me an idiot is more insulting than calling me a b!tch.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:35 .

[Monica21]

LadyDamodred wrote...
This conversation occurs at least once a week for me, if not more frequently:

"You're such an effing b!tch, Lady D."

"I love you, too, Alan."

Um, well, as you said, different strokes.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
And it's the exact same thing when she does that to my PC and Alistair.  My god, on my Couslands, when she mocked Alistair grieving over the Wardens, I want to knock her teeth out.  I just watched my entire family slaughtered before me and you're going to say that to someone who experienced nearly the very same thing?

Like I said, Morrigan doesn't comprehend the concept of loss.
But it's not the same. I am pretty sure Alistair knows what it means to insult a guy's girl to his face.

LadyDamodred wrote...
When she insults Alistair to my face, she's attacking my honor, my intelligence, my person because Alistair is the man I love.  And Morrigan and I are good friends!  But it's Morrigan.  I understand her and pity her in this case because she's unable to understand what it is that I've found.

What does she call him other than a fool? That is an attack on your honor and intelligence?
You were just sayign that it's normal for you to tell a friend that her husband is an ass. Now that;s not apersonal insult, but calling him a fool would be?

And she only becomes a friend much much later, when I doubt she talked about Alistair.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
This conversation occurs at least once a week for me, if not more frequently:

"You're such an effing b!tch, Lady D."
"I love you, too, Alan."

Just trying to point out how, for some people, it's really not much of an insult.  Calling me an idiot is more insulting than calling me a b!tch.

Well it's weird and I very much doubt a Cousland noble would be amused by this.

[errant_knight]

The writers are north american. They mean this in a north american way. It's not serious here. Lady D has the right of it. Idiot is much more insulting.

[Monica21]

errant_knight wrote...

The writers are north american. They mean this in a north american way. It's not serious here. Lady D has the right of it. Idiot is much more insulting.

*raises hand*

I'm in North America and I think "b!tch" is far more insulting than "idiot."

[LadyDamodred]

As I said, it's not the name calling. Calling him a fool is not much of an insult. It's the fact that she regards him as a complete idiot and expects me to agree. She's not stupid, she understands what she's saying.



And I don't think it's that weird, at least not for a lot of people. I'm illustrating how the word is what you're getting hung up on, when for me it's the nature of perception that I find more insulting.



And it's nearly 3am for me, and I have to get up in like 4 hours. So if I suddenly drop out of the convo, I'm not ignoring you, I just finally crashed.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

The writers are north american. They mean this in a north american way. It's not serious here. Lady D has the right of it. Idiot is much more insulting.

It's set in a medieval setting.
Did they call women b*tches for fun then?

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
As I said, it's not the name calling. Calling him a fool is not much of an insult. It's the fact that she regards him as a complete idiot and expects me to agree. She's not stupid, she understands what she's saying.

But you can tell her to be quiet.
I dont' get taht option with Alistair.

LadyDamodred wrote...
And I don't think it's that weird, at least not for a lot of people. I'm illustrating how the word is what you're getting hung up on, when for me it's the nature of perception that I find more insulting.

I am pretty sure it's weird for a medieval noble.

Add the fact that my Cousland's voice is "suave" and naturally, he would find it insulting

[errant_knight]

The dialogue is medieval meets modern. They say lots of things in a modern context, like 'wow' and pop culture references.  But I'm going to bow out now. This isn't something resolvable. I will say that I find Morrigan's behavior much more insulting than Alistairs, in that she goes out of her way to hurt him, whereas he's reacting to her behavior.

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:49 .