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[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
As I said, it's not the name calling. Calling him a fool is not much of an insult. It's the fact that she regards him as a complete idiot and expects me to agree. She's not stupid, she understands what she's saying.

But you can tell her to be quiet.
I dont' get taht option with Alistair.

LadyDamodred wrote...
And I don't think it's that weird, at least not for a lot of people. I'm illustrating how the word is what you're getting hung up on, when for me it's the nature of perception that I find more insulting.

I am pretty sure it's weird for a medieval noble.
Add the fact that my Cousland's voice is "suave" and naturally, he would find it insulting

I said there should be an option to end the conversation.  Neither of us get options to demand apologies and I don't think we should.  That's my point.

Also, my noblewoman happens to run around in armor and killing things with a pointy sword.  Pretty sure that would weird out a lot of medieval nobles as well. 

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:50 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

The dialogue is medieval meets modern. They say lots of things in a modern context, like 'wow' and pop culture references.

If he said it in a joking fashion, maybe, I would have agreed.

When he says "complete and utter b*tch", it's clear he means it.
As a noble, I would find it highly insulting regardless.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
I said there should be an option to end the conversation.  Neither of us get options to demand apologies and I don't think we should.  That's my point.

I think I should have.
If someone wants the same option for Morrigan, because "fool" is more insulting to themnm than b*tch, sure let them.

LadyDamodred wrote...
Also, my noblewoman happens to run around in armor and killing things with a pointy sword.  Pretty sure that would weird out a lot of medieval nobles as well. 

Has nothing to do with common etiquette and courtesy.

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

The dialogue is medieval meets modern. They say lots of things in a modern context, like 'wow' and pop culture references.

If he said it in a joking fashion, maybe, I would have agreed.

When he says "complete and utter b*tch", it's clear he means it.
As a noble, I would find it highly insulting regardless.

And in his opinion, she is. Personally, I think he has justification for the sentiment, even if you can't get past the word.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

The dialogue is medieval meets modern. They say lots of things in a modern context, like 'wow' and pop culture references.

If he said it in a joking fashion, maybe, I would have agreed.

When he says "complete and utter b*tch", it's clear he means it.
As a noble, I would find it highly insulting regardless.

Agreed. He DEFINITELY means it. I mean, Morrigan is insulting him all day long. Still, I hate strong women being referred to as b'itches. Just because dear Alistair can't handle Morri, tsk, tsk. :happy:

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...
And in his opinion, she is. Personally, I think he has justification for the sentiment, even if you can't get past the word.

And I dont' care about his opinion. He shouldn't think he is entitled to say it to my face, when he knows I like her and then expect that to be bonding time. You have to be pretty clueless if you think that's how you make friends.

[errant_knight]

Heh. You mean like you're doing right now going on and on insulting a character that you know I like? Are we bonding yet?

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:56 .

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
I said there should be an option to end the conversation.  Neither of us get options to demand apologies and I don't think we should.  That's my point.

I think I should have.
If someone wants the same option for Morrigan, because "fool" is more insulting to themnm than b*tch, sure let them.

*takes a deep breath*  I have said, repeatedly, that it is not the word she would have to apologize for, so please do not keep repeating that.  It's telling me you're either not reading what I'm saying or dismissing it.

My entire point with the whole comparison was that if you feel Alistair should apologize, then you must also feel Morrigan should aplogize because it's grossly unfair otherwise.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Also, my noblewoman happens to run around in armor and killing things with a pointy sword.  Pretty sure that would weird out a lot of medieval nobles as well. 

Has nothing to do with common etiquette and courtesy.

Ah-ah, my dear, if you're gonna bring up the medieval thing, then we're gonna bring it up in more than just one teeny, tiny aspect. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

Heh. You mean like you're doing right now going on and on insulting a character that you know I like?

Oh, you are in an actual romance with him in real life?

Some people here did call Morrigan a b*tch right now and in a looot of places, and I don't care. Because it's a game.
I am talking about in-game and I say "I" to refer to my canon.

Out game, I couldn't care less what people think of a video game character.

[LadyDamodred]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
The dialogue is medieval meets modern. They say lots of things in a modern context, like 'wow' and pop culture references.

If he said it in a joking fashion, maybe, I would have agreed.
When he says "complete and utter b*tch", it's clear he means it.
As a noble, I would find it highly insulting regardless.

Agreed. He DEFINITELY means it. I mean, Morrigan is insulting him all day long. Still, I hate strong women being referred to as b'itches. Just because dear Alistair can't handle Morri, tsk, tsk. :happy:

He's not saying it because she's strong.  He's saying it because...she's a b!tch. 

[mellifera]

I think we have to remember game mechanics here too. He doesn't say t specifically to a Warden romancing her, he says it to all if you choose that path. You as the player interpret it that way, but as a character in a game he is fairly limited in what he can say. Do I think if Alistair were real he would call Morrigan a **** to the face of a guy who is romantically linked with her? No, unless he were being intentionally antagonistic to you for some reason.

[LadyDamodred]

yukidama wrote...

I think we have to remember game mechanics here too. He doesn't say t specifically to a Warden romancing her, he says it to all if you choose that path. You as the player interpret it that way, but as a character in a game he is fairly limited in what he can say. Do I think if Alistair were real he would call Morrigan a **** to the face of a guy who is romantically linked with her? No, unless he were being intentionally antagonistic to you for some reason.

Mmm, true.  I think sometimes we forget that.

It seems we're getting a little testy.  Perhaps we should drop this and I should go to bed...or something.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
*takes a deep breath*  I have said, repeatedly, that it is not the word she would have to apologize for, so please do not keep repeating that.  It's telling me you're either not reading what I'm saying or dismissing it.

My entire point with the whole comparison was that if you feel Alistair should apologize, then you must also feel Morrigan should aplogize because it's grossly unfair otherwise.

If you mean her making fun of his loss, it's because like I said, she doesn't udnerstand the concept.
She was raised in a forest with a crazy old woman.
If you think that's her fault, then yea she shoudl apologise.

Ah-ah, my dear, if you're gonna bring up the medieval thing, then we're gonna bring it up in more than just one teeny, tiny aspect. 

Not really. Whether women fought or not has no corrolation with what a word means. or how they would feel about it

And if you want to say that DA is a modern setting, even in N.america, some people find it insulting. The least one coudl expect is show them courrtesy, even if you don't think that the word has the same meaning. 

[Persephone]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
The dialogue is medieval meets modern. They say lots of things in a modern context, like 'wow' and pop culture references.

If he said it in a joking fashion, maybe, I would have agreed.
When he says "complete and utter b*tch", it's clear he means it.
As a noble, I would find it highly insulting regardless.

Agreed. He DEFINITELY means it. I mean, Morrigan is insulting him all day long. Still, I hate strong women being referred to as b'itches. Just because dear Alistair can't handle Morri, tsk, tsk. :happy:

He's not saying it because she's strong.  He's saying it because...she's a b!tch. 

I have always preferred so-called biatches to sweet goody two shoes, just as I have always preferred men to what Shakespeare called a lack-beard in one of his plays.

[mellifera]

Well, I could also say that implying a man is less of a man because he doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard imposed by common society is very offensive too. And it is, to me, at least.



I don't really advocate for the word ****, but she's rude and abrasive and mean, so in that way she is a ****. Not because she's a strong woman who can hold her own.

[KnightofPhoenix]

yukidama wrote...

Well, I could also say that implying a man is less of a man because he doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard imposed by common society is very offensive too. And it is, to me, at least.

She is not talking about standards from common society.
She is talking about what she was raised with in a forest by Flemeth. Because that's the only thing she knows and the only standard she can judge by.

[Persephone]

yukidama wrote...

Well, I could also say that implying a man is less of a man because he doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard imposed by common society is very offensive too. And it is, to me, at least.

I don't really advocate for the word ****, but she's rude and abrasive and mean, so in that way she is a ****. Not because she's a strong woman who can hold her own.

And you'd be right to. It's just a personal preference. Alistair breaks the mold there in my case, for I have gushed over him like a teen having her first crush. And I still do sometimes.

[LadyDamodred]

yukidama wrote...

Well, I could also say that implying a man is less of a man because he doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard imposed by common society is very offensive too. And it is, to me, at least.

I don't really advocate for the word ****, but she's rude and abrasive and mean, so in that way she is a ****. Not because she's a strong woman who can hold her own.

That is exactly what I mean.

KoP:  I'm talking about more than just that convo.  There's also the one where she says the only reason you could ever possibly like Alistair is because he's awesome in bed (and oh lord did the creep factor of that convo go up after my first play through), in addition to all the other remarks throughout the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
KoP:  I'm talking about more than just that convo.  There's also the one where she says the only reason you could ever possibly like Alistair is because he's awesome in bed (and oh lord did the creep factor of that convo go up after my first play through), in addition to all the other remarks throughout the game.

She was raised by someone who rapes Templars and is told that she would be doing the same.
She has no conception whatsoever of love or even friendship. The only men she's been with before are only for pleasure. She doesn't understand why a woman would be with a man for any other reason. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:17 .

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
KoP:  I'm talking about more than just that convo.  There's also the one where she says the only reason you could ever possibly like Alistair is because he's awesome in bed (and oh lord did the creep factor of that convo go up after my first play through), in addition to all the other remarks throughout the game.

She was raised by someone who rapes Templars and is told that she would be doing the same.
She has no conception whatsoever of love or even friendship. The only men she's been with before are only for pleasure. She doesn't understand why a woman would be with a man for any other reason. 

This. Morrigan has some SERIOUS psychological scars and baggage.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
KoP:  I'm talking about more than just that convo.  There's also the one where she says the only reason you could ever possibly like Alistair is because he's awesome in bed (and oh lord did the creep factor of that convo go up after my first play through), in addition to all the other remarks throughout the game.

She was raised by someone who rapes Templars and is told that she would be doing the same.
She has no conception whatsoever of love or even friendship. The only men she's been with before are only for pleasure. She doesn't understand why a woman would be with a man for any other reason. 

I believe by that point she's already called me sister.  She now has some concept of it.  *shrugs*  Like I said, I don't care, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
I believe by that point she's already called me sister.  She now has some concept of it.  *shrugs*  Like I said, I don't care, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.

Not with a man. Why her calling you sister must mean she understands why a woman can be with a man for any other reason than bed time?

Besides, let's not forget what Alistair is. She sees in him the intolerant Templar and sure enough, he was the one who kept calling her apostate and witch. At Flemeth's hut, when she says Alistair is not taking it well, she actually looks somewhat concerned and doesn't make fun of it. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:28 .

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
I believe by that point she's already called me sister.  She now has some concept of it.  *shrugs*  Like I said, I don't care, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.

Not with a man. Why her calling you sister must mean she understands why a woman can be with a man for any other reason than bed time?

Besides, let's not forget what Alistair is. She sees in him the intolerant Templar and sure enough, he was the one who kept calling her apostate and witch. At Flemeth's hut, when she says Alistair is not taking it well, she actually looks somewhat concerned and doesn't make fun of it. 

And then one question later, she's demeaning him for it. And she is an apostate and a witch. On the other hand, she's calling him stupid immediately, for which she has no grounds. He doesn't call her a maleficar, and only brings that up as a possibility to the warden later.

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:36 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...
And then one question later, she's demeaning him for it. And she is an apostate and a witch.

Because she was raised that way by Flemeth. Whatever sympathy she may have had were perhaps not for Alistair, but her trying to be polite when you wake up (because you don't want to wake up at someone making fun of your friends).

And Alistair says it in a suggestive and insulting way. Coming from a Templar initiate, this is a grave insult to someone who values her freedom more than anything else. She'd probably see Alistair as a chantry tool demeaning her freedom.

EDIT: anyways, I am not here discussing what Alistair and Morrigan think of each other.
If Alsitair had told Morrigan she was a b*tch to her face, I would not have done anything. Morrigan can handle herself and she wouldnt' care anyways.


It's the fact that I find it highly innapropriate for him to insult her in such a fashion when he knows I like her.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:37 .

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
And then one question later, she's demeaning him for it. And she is an apostate and a witch.

Because she was raised that way by Flemeth. Whatever sympathy she may have had were perhaps not for Alistair, but her trying to be polite when you wake up (because you don't want to wake up at someone making fun of your friends).

And Alistair says it in a suggestive and insulting way. Coming from a Templar initiate, this is a grave insult to someone who values her freedom more than anything else. She'd probably see Alistair as a chantry tool demeaning her freedom.

So Morrigan has all right on her side, and Alistair has none, huh? Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. I couldn't see it more differently.

Why are we arguing about a game mechanic, anyway? Everyone gets the same dialogue in that conversation. There isn't a special dialogue for those romancing Morrigan, or anyone else.

Modifié par errant_knight, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:37 .