39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


EDIT" baah top.



I tried looking for an Ali pic, but I found this instead. So much better, no?

This almost inspires to play again.  Almost. 


Eek, and ToP for me now.  Uh...

Modifié par Addai67, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:19 .

[Briiel]

Lady Jess wrote...

Briiel wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Not to mention, what is going to happen at Ostagar? Either she stays and dies with her husband, or your Cousland lives with the guilt of e4scaping Ostagar and leaving her to die. Either way Mom loses. At least the way it stands she's with the man she loves.

That's metagaming, you don't know that.
And why does she have to be at Ostagar? She could find safe haven in a village.

yeah because you do travel down to Ostagar so what's to say that you couldn't drop her off at Lothering or Red Cliff:(

O.o Drop your mother off at Redcliffe, which has been ripped apart by a demon, or Lothering which is plagued by bandits, woves, and spiders with the blight threatening to take it?

But at the time you don't know what's going on at Red Cliffe . I was thinking as a Noble to Noble thing. Arl Eamon could help her seek the justice thing. Put to motion stopping Arl Howe

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sarah1281 wrote...

 Your mother is far too old to have children and isn't a blood-Cousland which still puts carrying on your family name on your shoulders (until you ruin that by undertaking the Joining).

But she is the teyrna, and, if nothing else, could call a Landsmeet, or call on the royals, to bring sanctions and retribution against Howe. Given her status as the widow of a greatly respected and admired man, second only to the king, as well as the default ruler of Highever, it would be nothing to accomplish. Thus, her continued survival lessens the gravity of the human noble's situation.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

 Your mother is far too old to have children and isn't a blood-Cousland which still puts carrying on your family name on your shoulders (until you ruin that by undertaking the Joining).

But she is the teyrna, and, if nothing else, could call a Landsmeet, or call on the royals, to bring sanctions and retribution against Howe. Given her status as the widow of a greatly respected and admired man, second only to the king, as well as the default ruler of Highever, it would be nothing to accomplish. Thus, her continued survival lessens the gravity of the human noble's situation.

Howe declares them to be traitors and apparently has evidence for it.
I don't think she would have been able to call a landsmeet.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

 Your mother is far too old to have children and isn't a blood-Cousland which still puts carrying on your family name on your shoulders (until you ruin that by undertaking the Joining).

But she is the teyrna, and, if nothing else, could call a Landsmeet, or call on the royals, to bring sanctions and retribution against Howe. Given her status as the widow of a greatly respected and admired man, second only to the king, as well as the default ruler of Highever, it would be nothing to accomplish. Thus, her continued survival lessens the gravity of the human noble's situation.

Howe declares them to be traitors and apparently has evidence for it.
I don't think she would have been able to call a landsmeet.

Wasn't it because he had the support of Loghain to help carry those accusations? I mean, if she had managed to convince the Landsmeet before the Battle of Ostagar or before Loghain took power then Howe wouldn't have had the power he did.

(EDIT: Especially with the knowledge that Howe killed Bryce and everyone in the Highever Castle)

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:24 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...
Wasn't it because he had the support of Loghain to help carry those accusations? I mean, if she had managed to convince the Landsmeet before the Battle of Ostagar or before Loghain took power then Howe wouldn't have had the power he did.

Hmmm, maybe.

Like I said, yes it makes more sense for the story if she dies.
They should have made it more obvious why she has to stay in order to justify us not even being able to try properly.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, for story reasons, it makes it more dramatic and tragic. But I wish they could have made it more obvious that she needed to stay there. Perhaps if she too was injured or something.

Because honestly, I always end up feeling like a jerk in that scene. At least give us the chance to actually try, and then have Duncan pull us by force or something.

I like it that she chooses to stay, and no one is going to change her mind, not her kids or her husband. Because she is her own woman, who puts her own personal loyalties above her own survival. And no one, no matter how hard they try, is going to dissuade her from it.

I rather like it, and gives me a certain edge of pride in her when I played the HN origin. Having been sent away by my own mother before she died, it is a signifigant thing for me.

[Briiel]

Ali swooping my mage !!





>.>

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I like it that she chooses to stay, and no one is going to change her mind, not her kids or her husband. Because she is her own woman, who puts her own personal loyalties above her own survival. And no one, no matter how hard they try, is going to dissuade her from it.

Hence why I would have knocked her out and got her out of there whether she likes it or not.

I am taking issue that no one really tried. It was just one sentence from Bryce and one from us. They didn't give us the option to try properly. Nor even react properly (though I guess it's up for the player to imagine).

[tuppence95]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, for story reasons, it makes it more dramatic and tragic. But I wish they could have made it more obvious that she needed to stay there. Perhaps if she too was injured or something.

Because honestly, I always end up feeling like a jerk in that scene. At least give us the chance to actually try, and then have Duncan pull us by force or something.

I like it that she chooses to stay, and no one is going to change her mind, not her kids or her husband. Because she is her own woman, who puts her own personal loyalties above her own survival. And no one, no matter how hard they try, is going to dissuade her from it.

I rather like it, and gives me a certain edge of pride in her when I played the HN origin. Having been sent away by my own mother before she died, it is a signifigant thing for me.

I agree with this.  

Eleanor was a strong woman.  She knew exactly what she was doing, and there was no way she was going to leave her husband to die alone and she was committed to making a stand to allow her child to escape.  Game mechanics make it seem like there was a large amount of time, but they did let us know that Howe's men were at that moment breaking down the door and we were running out of time.

And both Bryce and Eleanor let us know that it was our duty to go on and live.  We had to carry on the family name and also let Fergus know that Howe betrayed the Couslands.  She was brave enough to do what she saw as her duty, and she expected her child to do the same.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I like it that she chooses to stay, and no one is going to change her mind, not her kids or her husband. Because she is her own woman, who puts her own personal loyalties above her own survival. And no one, no matter how hard they try, is going to dissuade her from it.

Hence why I would have knocked her out and got her out of there whether she likes it or not.

I am taking issue that no one really tried. It was just one sentence from Bryce and one from us. They didn't give us the option to try properly. Nor even react properly (though I guess it's up for the player to imagine).

I think she would be pissed off if you did that. She may survive the battle but it would probably cause a rift between the Cousland and Eleanor. It'd be pretty easy for her to blame Cousland for her having to leave Bryce, no matter how much she loved her child.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Because honestly, I always end up feeling like a jerk in that scene. At least give us the chance to actually try, and then have Duncan pull us by force or something.

But isn't that what happens when you tell her "I won't let you throw your life away!" and she refuses, with Duncan finally pulling you away?

For the record, as I've stated on many occasions, my decision in that situation (if the game actually allowed it), would've been to stay there defending my parents till the end.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

 They didn't give us the option to try properly. Nor even react properly (though I guess it's up for the player to imagine).

That's pretty much what alot of situations in DA are like: you have to RP and imagine a reaction or dialogue, since the game provided none appropriate for the impact on the character.

(A prime example is in RTO, when you see Cailain's body, and your Warden's reaction, no matter how you feel about him, is one of sadness and despair at seeing him strung up like that. If your Warden thought he was a complete tool, or had no opinion of him, you have to RP a reason for the frowny sad-face, like regret that good armor and weapons have gone to waste because of him, all the people who died because of his glory hounding, ect.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...
I think she would be pissed off if you did that. She may survive the battle but it would probably cause a rift between the Cousland and Eleanor. It'd be pretty easy for her to blame Cousland for her having to leave Bryce, no matter how much she loved her child.

She is reasonable and as Teyrna, she has her own duties to fullfill other than dying with her husband. I don't think she will permanently hold a grudge.

And if she does, I'll accept it as the price to pay for saving her life.

[Reika]

Howe says he has evidence that the Couslands were traitors, but never produces it. In fact in Awakening there's some codex entries that people have found out about what Howe is planning and cracks down on his arling to keep word from getting out. So I have a feeling if he did have anything, it was completely fabricated.



About Eleanor, I agree with those who felt that they should've been given an opportunity to get her out of the castle. But I ran the scenario by my mother who is a rather formidable person herself for her take on it. "By the time you were 18 I'd raised you to be an adult who could take care of herself. I'd like to think I'd be more practical and leave with you, but in reality if I had a husband I loved that much, I probably would stay with him and try to distract the scum from my baby."





And to stay on topic, my Cousland and Alistair:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Because honestly, I always end up feeling like a jerk in that scene. At least give us the chance to actually try, and then have Duncan pull us by force or something.

But isn't that what happens when you tell her "I won't let you throw your life away!" and she refuses, with Duncan finally pulling you away?

I can't remember the scene exactly, but it felt. I don't know. The attempt didn't appear strong enough.

But maybe that's because the option I would have taken is not there.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:36 .

[Briiel]

Woot !! It's Ali TIME !!!:wub:

:wub:<3<3:wub:<3<3:wub:<3<3:wub:

[mellifera]

Radioactive Alistair, lol.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...
I think she would be pissed off if you did that. She may survive the battle but it would probably cause a rift between the Cousland and Eleanor. It'd be pretty easy for her to blame Cousland for her having to leave Bryce, no matter how much she loved her child.

She is reasonable and as Teyrna, she has her own duties to fullfill other than dying with her husband. I don't think she will permanently hold a grudge.

And if she does, I'll accept it as the price to pay for saving her life.

Also, talk about treating her like a child and not a strong Fereldan woman.  *shrugs*  We feel differently about this, obviously, but to me ignoring her choices and rendering her incapable and dragging her away in defiance of her wishes is apalling to me.

[Briiel]

yukidama wrote...

Radioactive Alistair, lol.

It's what happens when you have them blasted fire runes on ! Alistair lights up like a christmas tree!:O

[Skyl4rk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
This is Eleanor we're talking about. If you somehow drag her from Bryce, do you really think she's going to go ANYWHERE but where her children are? She's not going to leave your side, and certainly she would insist on getting to Ostagar to be with Fergus when HE gets the news. And would YOU ditch your own mother at some village with unknowns? With more of Howe's men possibly looking for you? Or worse, at the mercy of the bandits and darkspawn?

Ok, so she goes to Ostagar. How am I to know what's going to happen there?

I am talkign about having the choice to knock her out in that room. I don't have time to think about the war or anythign else except watching my mother throwing her life without an obvious need to do so.

This.  Not to sound selfish and insensitive to the whole situation, but if you have to look at it practically, it would be near impossible to maneuver your way out of castle cousland and trek an unknown and very dark terrain (safely assuming that no torchlight was used) out of Highever while an army is at your heels.  Chances are, you, Duncan and your unconscious mother will most likely be caught and put to death without hesitation.  So, wouldn't that seem more meaningless and wasted as opposed to having your mother fighting to the death for your (far better) chance at escape and preserving your life?  If I was in Eleanor's shoes I would definitely choose the latter simply because for me, I'd be fulfilling my role as the mother and protector to my child.  And if it means my death so that my child will live, then so be it.  At least I'll know it wouldn't be in vain.

[tuppence95]

The option to drag Bryce out of there was discussed and rejected, and he would've been conscious while being dragged.  Have you ever tried carrying or dragging someone who had been knocked out?  They are dead weight.  She WOULD have slowed you down.

Couslands took their duty very seriously.  I think if our warden had tried knocking Eleanor out to save her, she would've been very disappointed in them and their putting their feelings above their duty.

I hated that both of them died, but I think their deaths were a key element to the Human Noble origin story.  For me that's what made that origin so emotional.  I have cried many times when playing it.  If Eleanor or both had lived, it would not have had the impact.  And it adds such a great rp inspiration to carry on the family name.  I am always aware that my character is a Cousland when I play that story.  

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...
I think she would be pissed off if you did that. She may survive the battle but it would probably cause a rift between the Cousland and Eleanor. It'd be pretty easy for her to blame Cousland for her having to leave Bryce, no matter how much she loved her child.

She is reasonable and as Teyrna, she has her own duties to fullfill other than dying with her husband. I don't think she will permanently hold a grudge.

And if she does, I'll accept it as the price to pay for saving her life.

Also, talk about treating her like a child and not a strong Fereldan woman.  *shrugs*  We feel differently about this, obviously, but to me ignoring her choices and rendering her incapable and dragging her away in defiance of her wishes is apalling to me.

Me taking advantage of my mother covering my escape, risking herself to horrible acts that would injure our collective honor and my honor personally beyond repair, while I run away with my skin sounds appaling to me.

When my mother's life is in danger when the need isn't apparent, I couldn't care less about abstractions or her feeling that I am taking away her independence. My main priority would be to get her out alive. If she is so unreasonable as to hate me for it, so be it.

[Sarah1281]

Couslands took their duty very seriously. I think if our warden had tried knocking Eleanor out to save her, she would've been very disappointed in them and their putting their feelings above their duty.

If you both live and she wakes up somewhere safe and away from the castle then how did you put your feelings above your duty? Your duty was to get out of there alive and, in the future, bring down Howe. You are out of there alive and having her around should help bring Howe down.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 18 octobre 2010 - 03:48 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skyl4rk wrote...
This.  Not to sound selfish and insensitive to the whole situation, but if you have to look at it practically, it would be near impossible to maneuver your way out of castle cousland and trek an unknown and very dark terrain (safely assuming that no torchlight was used) out of Highever while an army is at your heels.  Chances are, you, Duncan and your unconscious mother will most likely be caught and put to death without hesitation.  So, wouldn't that seem more meaningless and wasted as opposed to having your mother fighting to the death for your (far better) chance at escape and preserving your life?  If I was in Eleanor's shoes I would definitely choose the latter simply because for me, I'd be fulfilling my role as the mother and protector to my child.  And if it means my death so that my child will live, then so be it.  At least I'll know it wouldn't be in vain.

In that situation, I don't think I have the time to weight the pros and cons and calculate my chances of survival.
The way I saw it however, nothing made it obvious to me that she couldn't be saved. And while our chances would definitely be lowered, I don't think they would be lowered to the point where it wouldn't be worth it to try and save my mother.

I am generally a very practical and pragmatic man, but in some situations, I can't think like that. I can't practically calculate that leaving my mother behind would increase my chances for survival, even if she might be subjugated to horrific acts, and be able to live with myself after that.

I would have tried much harder to convince her that she doesn't need to die and that the 3 of us can do better than only 2. If she refuses, I'd knock her out. We might be caught and Ducan might prove useless. Would have been worth it regardless.