39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Briiel wrote...

You know I'm in the tower and I had a weird thought. I think I would hate to be Tranquil.They can't feel anything,not fear ,not love, not lust ,anything. I think it would be a horrible way to live.

I would rather die before being made a tranquil. That's not a life at all.

Its not just a life and death choice though its a:
Half-life or Demonically possessed life kinda choice. 

They can't make you Tranquil if you're already possessed and they just kill those that get possessed in their Harrowing even though they could just do the ritual and there's no guarentee that if you undertake the Harrowing you'll get possessed. As it happens, while the mages know that people die during their Harrowing they don't know about the demon involvement until moments before going through it themselves.

What I feel should be an option is, if you don't want to take your Harrowing or aren't allowed like Jowan, you should be offered the choice to become Tranquil or be executed. Killing people for not being strong enough to withstand demon possession before they get possessed isn't nice, of course, but for those like Jowan who would rather die than live Tranquil it gives them the opportunity.

[Giggles_Manically]

The best way to fix that, is to give mages who pass the Harrowing more freedom, and the ones who dont want to take it are given less. If they dont want to take it, they cant leave the tower and get watched more, but they dont get tranquiled.

[inclemency]

Since there's no ToP, I'll repost this bizarre derp

[Addai]

Man, it's Morbidville around here lately.  Alistair doesn't like to kill mages, so it's ironic it's on his thread. 

But just to add to the extreme morbidity, I would think that as a mage you would have some pretty creative and horrible suicide methods at your disposal, assuming you were that desperate not to become tranquil.

All in all, the mage problem is pretty horrific.  I think the Circle system magnifies the problem, though.  That was my feeling while playing a Dalish mage and thinking about how the Dalish might deal with abominations, that since demons feed off fear and longing, creating a system that is so oppressive and paranoiac actually intensifies the problem.  You make a mage tower into a demon banquet.

[inclemency]

In my current game we've reached the Tower and talking to Wynne. My character is a Cousland Mage so the storyline is Cousland but she is still recognized in the tower as a mage and as if the storyline all happened. I did a hard save and went through some of the alternate dialog, including the yelling Alistair does, which was pretty impressive. I've had Zev giving his 'mercy' speech, too.



The whole thing about how magic is treated in this world shocked me when playing my first game.

[Lady Jess]

inclemency wrote...

In my current game we've reached the Tower and talking to Wynne. My character is a Cousland Mage so the storyline is Cousland but she is still recognized in the tower as a mage and as if the storyline all happened. I did a hard save and went through some of the alternate dialog, including the yelling Alistair does, which was pretty impressive. I've had Zev giving his 'mercy' speech, too.

The whole thing about how magic is treated in this world shocked me when playing my first game.

Alistair yells? do tell

[inclemency]

Lady Jess wrote...

inclemency wrote...

In my current game we've reached the Tower and talking to Wynne. My character is a Cousland Mage so the storyline is Cousland but she is still recognized in the tower as a mage and as if the storyline all happened. I did a hard save and went through some of the alternate dialog, including the yelling Alistair does, which was pretty impressive. I've had Zev giving his 'mercy' speech, too.

The whole thing about how magic is treated in this world shocked me when playing my first game.

Alistair yells? do tell

Oh yeah, he yells quite effectively if you are bent on attacking Wynne with no provocation.  Especially since you'd be killing not only Wynne but the children in that room. He yells, but will back down.

It's pretty awful, though, with the children saying 'don't hurt me'  ugh *reload*

Modifié par inclemency, 18 octobre 2010 - 06:05 .

[Aeowyn]

*fires up toolset*

[Yankee23]

inclemency wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

inclemency wrote...

In my current game we've reached the Tower and talking to Wynne. My character is a Cousland Mage so the storyline is Cousland but she is still recognized in the tower as a mage and as if the storyline all happened. I did a hard save and went through some of the alternate dialog, including the yelling Alistair does, which was pretty impressive. I've had Zev giving his 'mercy' speech, too.

The whole thing about how magic is treated in this world shocked me when playing my first game.

Alistair yells? do tell

Oh yeah, he yells quite effectively if you are bent on attacking Wynne with no provocation.  Especially since you'd be killing not only Wynne but the children in that room. He yells, but will back down.

It's pretty awful, though, with the children saying 'don't hurt me'  ugh *reload*

Yeah but when he's done he heads right off to shield bash her, lol. Umm...I don't rememeber killing children...do they get killed.

[Tigress M]

Not sure if this is more derpy or just plain pitiful, but nevertheless, it's definitely Alistair!

[inclemency]

Yankee23 wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

inclemency wrote...

In my current game we've reached the Tower and talking to Wynne. My character is a Cousland Mage so the storyline is Cousland but she is still recognized in the tower as a mage and as if the storyline all happened. I did a hard save and went through some of the alternate dialog, including the yelling Alistair does, which was pretty impressive. I've had Zev giving his 'mercy' speech, too.

The whole thing about how magic is treated in this world shocked me when playing my first game.

Alistair yells? do tell

Oh yeah, he yells quite effectively if you are bent on attacking Wynne with no provocation.  Especially since you'd be killing not only Wynne but the children in that room. He yells, but will back down.

It's pretty awful, though, with the children saying 'don't hurt me'  ugh *reload*

Yeah but when he's done he heads right off to shield bash her, lol. Umm...I don't rememeber killing children...do they get killed.

yeah, in this scenario they are running around saying 'don't hurt me, you're a bad person', but I can't go through with the killing, I just reload.

He does have a very 'Alistair' line in one of the branches...

Modifié par inclemency, 18 octobre 2010 - 06:27 .

[Zjarcal]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Briiel wrote...

You know I'm in the tower and I had a weird thought. I think I would hate to be Tranquil.They can't feel anything,not fear ,not love, not lust ,anything. I think it would be a horrible way to live.

I would rather die before being made a tranquil. That's not a life at all.

Its not just a life and death choice though its a:
Half-life or Demonically possessed life kinda choice. 

Both equally bad. Just kill me.

Actually, if you're possessed you could still be saved (a la Connor). Granted, that's not going to happen at the Circle (or anywhere else really, Connor was simply an exception) but in that sense, being possessed can at least be reversed. So being made Tranquil is worse to me. Like I said, just kill me.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 18 octobre 2010 - 06:26 .

[Tigress M]

Zjarcal wrote...
Actually, if you're possessed you could still be saved (a la Connor). Granted, that's not going to happen at the Circle (or anywhere else really, Connor was simply an exception) but in that sense, being possessed can at least be reversed. So being made Tranquil is worse to me. Like I said, just kill me.

I've always wondered why Connor can be saved but other mages can't.  I suppose it could be because he's a child and the circle doesn't hold him responsible for his actions, unlike adult mages undergoing the Harrowing, but is that really the reason?  

And along those lines, there is one flaw in the storyline that drives me batty.  When you're talking to Wynne about abominations she brings up the fact that it can't be undone... when in fact it can.  I just want to slap her upside the head and say "Hello???  Remember Connor? The one you JUST heard me mention???"

[Maria13]

Connor's privileged, he's nobility, who cares about humble mages who fail their harrowing? Just being sarky...

[Maria13]

Addai67 wrote...

Man, it's Morbidville around here lately.  Alistair doesn't like to kill mages, so it's ironic it's on his thread. 

But just to add to the extreme morbidity, I would think that as a mage you would have some pretty creative and horrible suicide methods at your disposal, assuming you were that desperate not to become tranquil.

All in all, the mage problem is pretty horrific.  I think the Circle system magnifies the problem, though.  That was my feeling while playing a Dalish mage and thinking about how the Dalish might deal with abominations, that since demons feed off fear and longing, creating a system that is so oppressive and paranoiac actually intensifies the problem.  You make a mage tower into a demon banquet.

And you supply an abundance of fresh, repressed Templars as demon fodder into the bargain...

[Skyl4rk]

Got sent home early from work by my germaphobe boss because I'm a little stuffed up. So now I get to do this

I love it when he makes faces at me *giggle*

Modifié par Skyl4rk, 18 octobre 2010 - 07:10 .

[Sarah1281]

Tigress M wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Actually, if you're possessed you could still be saved (a la Connor). Granted, that's not going to happen at the Circle (or anywhere else really, Connor was simply an exception) but in that sense, being possessed can at least be reversed. So being made Tranquil is worse to me. Like I said, just kill me.

I've always wondered why Connor can be saved but other mages can't.  I suppose it could be because he's a child and the circle doesn't hold him responsible for his actions, unlike adult mages undergoing the Harrowing, but is that really the reason?  

And along those lines, there is one flaw in the storyline that drives me batty.  When you're talking to Wynne about abominations she brings up the fact that it can't be undone... when in fact it can.  I just want to slap her upside the head and say "Hello???  Remember Connor? The one you JUST heard me mention???"

Sure they could be saved but lyrium is very expensive. Not to mention that Connor is just a child with virtually no instruction. If he is saved, he will be sent to the Circle, get training, and undertake his Harrowing (which he passes). If the possessed mages going through their Harrowing are saved, they've just proven they can't withstand a demonic possession so they would just be made Tranquil to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Why bother freeing them just to make them Tranquil when killing them would be easier, cheaper, and - to some - kinder? 

[Aeowyn]

I was under the impression that not all mages who become abominations are done so freely. If the mage is weak a demon can possess it. I remember reading a Gaider post where he said that mages who fight against the demon but still get possessed become abominations.

[inclemency]

And wasn't there the explanation somewhere about why Connor could be saved? Was it morrigan who explained? I cannot recall who did, but the explanation was given somewhere by someone. Lol, how is that for remembering accurately?  It was what Aeowyn said, that Connor was an unwilling host, therefore it could be reversed.

Modifié par inclemency, 18 octobre 2010 - 07:31 .

[Giggles_Manically]

inclemency wrote...

And wasn't there the explanation somewhere about why Connor could be saved? Was it morrigan who explained? I cannot recall who did, but the explanation was given somewhere by someone. Lol, how is that for remembering accurately?  It was what Aeowyn said, that Connor was an unwilling host, therefore it could be reversed.

If you dont let Jowan help Morrigan explains out the whole situation, saw it on my last run.

[maxernst]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Tigress M wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Actually, if you're possessed you could still be saved (a la Connor). Granted, that's not going to happen at the Circle (or anywhere else really, Connor was simply an exception) but in that sense, being possessed can at least be reversed. So being made Tranquil is worse to me. Like I said, just kill me.

I've always wondered why Connor can be saved but other mages can't.  I suppose it could be because he's a child and the circle doesn't hold him responsible for his actions, unlike adult mages undergoing the Harrowing, but is that really the reason?  

And along those lines, there is one flaw in the storyline that drives me batty.  When you're talking to Wynne about abominations she brings up the fact that it can't be undone... when in fact it can.  I just want to slap her upside the head and say "Hello???  Remember Connor? The one you JUST heard me mention???"

Sure they could be saved but lyrium is very expensive. Not to mention that Connor is just a child with virtually no instruction. If he is saved, he will be sent to the Circle, get training, and undertake his Harrowing (which he passes). If the possessed mages going through their Harrowing are saved, they've just proven they can't withstand a demonic possession so they would just be made Tranquil to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Why bother freeing them just to make them Tranquil when killing them would be easier, cheaper, and - to some - kinder? 

You know, I have an issue with the whole "harrowing proves you're strong enough to withstand the Demons" theory promoted by the Circle.  The two examples where we really know the circumstances of the posession we have--Uldred and Connor--both stemmed not from being weak, but from cutting deals.  Connor allowed himself to be posessed in an effort to save his father.  In Uldred's case, judging by the behavior of the Pride Demon, it was trying to free the Mages (viewed from a certain point of view)...so again, I think a deal was cut.  Certainly Uldred had survived the Harrowing, so it's just about strength and training.

And yes--in practical terms, I agree with Sarah and Wynne that abominations can't realistically be saved.  Too expensive and too risky because you'd probably lose some mages going after the demons, too.  As an Arl's son, Connor is a special case.

Modifié par maxernst, 18 octobre 2010 - 07:36 .

[inclemency]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

inclemency wrote...

And wasn't there the explanation somewhere about why Connor could be saved? Was it morrigan who explained? I cannot recall who did, but the explanation was given somewhere by someone. Lol, how is that for remembering accurately?  It was what Aeowyn said, that Connor was an unwilling host, therefore it could be reversed.

If you dont let Jowan help Morrigan explains out the whole situation, saw it on my last run.

Ah, thanks, couldn't for the life of me picture who it was 

[Sarah1281]

You know, I have an issue with the whole "harrowing proves you're strong enough to withstand the Demons" theory promoted by the Circle. The two examples where we really know the circumstances of the posession we have--Uldred and Connor--both stemmed not from being weak, but from cutting deals. Connor allowed himself to be posessed in an effort to save his father. In Uldred's case, judging by the behavior of the Pride Demon, it was trying to free the Mages (viewed from a certain point of view)...so again, I think a deal was cut. Certainly Uldred had survived the Harrowing, so it's just about strength and training.

Anyone can avoid making a deal with a demon (assuming they even know what a demon is, unlike Connor). Uldred got possessed because he chose to make a deal. That was completely unnecessary and could have easily been avoided. The Harrowing shows that you are strong enough not to be forcibly possessed by a demon as they put you into a situation where you can't leave until a demon tries to possess you and fails. No, that won't stop people strong enough to resist forcible possession from choosing to make a deal but it will definitely cut down on the number of possessions they deal with. While I have issues with the Harrowing as well, every failed Harrowing is another mage that (if they didn't test them at all) would be helpless whenever a demon happened to find them and take them over and they'd have abominations all over the place. Mages attract demons and it's highly unlikely that a mage would be able to go through life having never attracted the attention of one ever.

[Giggles_Manically]

inclemency wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

inclemency wrote...

And wasn't there the explanation somewhere about why Connor could be saved? Was it morrigan who explained? I cannot recall who did, but the explanation was given somewhere by someone. Lol, how is that for remembering accurately?  It was what Aeowyn said, that Connor was an unwilling host, therefore it could be reversed.

If you dont let Jowan help Morrigan explains out the whole situation, saw it on my last run.

Ah, thanks, couldn't for the life of me picture who it was 

I can post some pictures from it since it also includes Isolde getting zinged, and some Ali derp.

[Yankee23]

IIRC (and I may not be) isn't there an option at the end of the harrowing to agree to deal with the demon in some way? Has anyone ever tried it?