39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Briiel wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

I honestly doubt he would succeed. Not only is the Divine in Orlais, but the Chantry itself is a bloody large cult...ehm...religious establishment. One King would not get far by trying to minimize their power and by the looks of it, as soon as something happens that they don't like (e.g. building a Circle in Orzammar) they consider doing Exalted Marches.

One King can change alot ! King Henry the 8th took out catholisim in England . Well not completely out but he lessened there hold on what could be done in England. Course he was a tyrant

Right, that is the difference.  Alistair is not a Bhelen, and thankfully not.  Henry VIII was actually milder than some of his children.  It took a very sustained, bloody and oppressive several generations to root out popular Catholicism.  The real power in the faith, as Maric and Loghain recognized after they had won the rebellion and were considering tossing the Chantry out, is that it is deeply rooted in the people.  Can you see Alistair sending royal guard in to remove Chantry amulets from people's homes?  Yeah, me neither.


King Alistair shot as obvious ToP

Modifié par Addai67, 19 octobre 2010 - 03:49 .

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...
Right, that is the difference.  Alistair is not a Bhelen, and thankfully not.  Henry VIII was actually milder than some of his children.  It took a very sustained, bloody and oppressive several generations to root out popular Catholicism.  The real power in the faith, as Maric and Loghain recognized after they had won the rebellion and were considering tossing the Chantry out, is that it is deeply rooted in the people.  Can you see Alistair sending royal guard in to remove Chantry amulets from people's homes?  Yeah, me neither.

Just imagine what Alistair would say if you suggested that, or some of the much worse things that were done.  He won't let you threaten a Revered Mother, imagine if you tried to execute one. You'd really get an earful!

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Skyl4rk wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Okay, I see pants, that's exciting, but...no shirts?

Sadly no...though I'm not really complaining. I think tmp mentioned that the ladies will get shirts - he's still working on them.

Hmmm.... If that's the case, perhaps he wouldn't mind making a shirt version for the guys. I'd really find it a lot more useful in gameplay if there was a shirt version.

Pish posh who needs useful at camp? I mean in gameplay armor, in camp? PANTS! And no shirt LOOK at that chest, geez woman!

Not saying he doesn't look very nice, but...it's chilly--look, they have a giant fire, and he's always warming his hands, so he's got to be a bit cold.... I mean, brrrr. And that's not even getting into the mosquito issue....

*hand waves*  And we rogues and mages don't wear much more and WE do fine. I'm sure none of us mind keeping him warm. Besides, I'm sure Morrigan has insect repellent salves, I mean surely in the wilds that was neccessary:D

[Herr Uhl]

Lady Jess wrote...

No derp really. But she definitely was having a WTF behind Alistair's back.

Say what you wan't about those darkspawn, but they show determination in hanging bodies.

[Aeowyn]

Haha yeah I've always wondered if they have some kind of fetish for hanging people

[Briiel]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Briiel wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

I honestly doubt he would succeed. Not only is the Divine in Orlais, but the Chantry itself is a bloody large cult...ehm...religious establishment. One King would not get far by trying to minimize their power and by the looks of it, as soon as something happens that they don't like (e.g. building a Circle in Orzammar) they consider doing Exalted Marches.

One King can change alot ! King Henry the 8th took out catholisim in England . Well not completely out but he lessened there hold on what could be done in England. Course he was a tyrant

He also sparked off numerous wars, and saw a terrible persecution spread across the country.
Than one of his children, killed more people, and so on and so forth.

While he did remove Catholicism from POWER he did not remove it from the country.

Well that's what I was meaning. Trying to show that yes a person can do it ,it takes alot of work but he did it. Course I still think he was a spoiled king brat  >.> but hey that my opinion:O

[errant_knight]

Briiel wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Briiel wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

I honestly doubt he would succeed. Not only is the Divine in Orlais, but the Chantry itself is a bloody large cult...ehm...religious establishment. One King would not get far by trying to minimize their power and by the looks of it, as soon as something happens that they don't like (e.g. building a Circle in Orzammar) they consider doing Exalted Marches.

One King can change alot ! King Henry the 8th took out catholisim in England . Well not completely out but he lessened there hold on what could be done in England. Course he was a tyrant

He also sparked off numerous wars, and saw a terrible persecution spread across the country.
Than one of his children, killed more people, and so on and so forth.

While he did remove Catholicism from POWER he did not remove it from the country.

Well that's what I was meaning. Trying to show that yes a person can do it ,it takes alot of work but he did it. Course I still think he was a spoiled king brat  >.> but hey that my opinion:O

Yes, but he didn't really change much of anything in the tenents of belief, and what little change there was required horrific persecution. It was political, not based in actual worship. High church Anglicanism (especially at that time) is virtually the same as Catholicism. Martin Luther was a different case, but that movement was a grassroots thing that had popular support from the people. You can't force people to have different religious beliefs. I can't say that I think Alistair is the type to try, or that he'd want to.

Modifié par errant_knight, 19 octobre 2010 - 04:18 .

[Lady Jess]

Yes, yes I hate the deep roads too Alistair >.<

[Briiel]

Sorry I should clarify that I thought King Henry was a spoiled brat king >>. From everything I read up on him it seemed like everything he did was to help him get his way.

[errant_knight]

Briiel wrote...

Sorry I should clarify that I thought King Henry was a spoiled brat king >>. From everything I read up on him it seemed like everything he did was to help him get his way.

I don't think most would disagree with you there. It was.

Alistair for topicness:

Modifié par errant_knight, 19 octobre 2010 - 04:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
 Alistair is not a Bhelen, and thankfully not.

Unfortunately (for him). If he was, I might have considered it.

Aeowyn wrote...

Haha yeah I've always wondered if they have some kind of fetish for hanging people

Psycological warfare, I think.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 octobre 2010 - 04:47 .

[mellifera]

Psychological warfare? Aren't they supposed to be mindless at this point?

[Skyl4rk]

errant_knight wrote...

Yes, but he didn't really change much of anything in the tenents of belief, and what little change there was required horrific persecution. It was political, not based in actual worship. High church Anglicanism (especially at that time) is virtually the same as Catholicism. Martin Luther was a different case, but that movement was a grassroots thing that had popular support from the people. You can't force people to have different religious beliefs. I can't say that I think Alistair is the type to try, or that he'd want to.

If anything, one thing that Alistair did as king that's to be considered extreme was grant the Circle autonomy (only done if the Warden was a mage, though).  I'd imagine the Chantry wasn't happy about that considering what the religion said about mages.

EDIT
Add a pic to go w/ today's theme...

Modifié par Skyl4rk, 19 octobre 2010 - 05:00 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

yukidama wrote...

Psychological warfare? Aren't they supposed to be mindless at this point?

The Archdemon isn't. Maybe he is telling them to do this.

[errant_knight]

Skyl4rk wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Yes, but he didn't really change much of anything in the tenents of belief, and what little change there was required horrific persecution. It was political, not based in actual worship. High church Anglicanism (especially at that time) is virtually the same as Catholicism. Martin Luther was a different case, but that movement was a grassroots thing that had popular support from the people. You can't force people to have different religious beliefs. I can't say that I think Alistair is the type to try, or that he'd want to.

If anything, one thing that Alistair did as king that's to be considered extreme was grant the Circle autonomy (only done if the Warden was a mage, though).  I'd imagine the Chantry wasn't happy about that considering what the religion said about mages.

Yeah, I can definitely see him trying to make changes that improve lives, where he can do so without actually interfering with religious matters. He might try and moderate how a belief is implemented, but I don't see him challenging the belief, itself. Like, he doesn't say that the templars should be disbanded, or stop paying attention to what mages do, acting against them if the go against Chantry belief, he just moves the mages from directly under the templar's thumb.

Modifié par errant_knight, 19 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Yankee23]

errant_knight wrote...

Skyl4rk wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Yes, but he didn't really change much of anything in the tenents of belief, and what little change there was required horrific persecution. It was political, not based in actual worship. High church Anglicanism (especially at that time) is virtually the same as Catholicism. Martin Luther was a different case, but that movement was a grassroots thing that had popular support from the people. You can't force people to have different religious beliefs. I can't say that I think Alistair is the type to try, or that he'd want to.

If anything, one thing that Alistair did as king that's to be considered extreme was grant the Circle autonomy (only done if the Warden was a mage, though).  I'd imagine the Chantry wasn't happy about that considering what the religion said about mages.

Yeah, I can definitely see him trying to make changes that improve lives, where he can do so without actually interfering with religious matters. He might try and moderate how a belief is implemented, but I don't see him challenging the belief, itself.

I agree I think if anything he would like to see the political side of the chantry minimized, but not the part that is supposed to help and support the people.

Tuesday:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skyl4rk wrote...
If anything, one thing that Alistair did as king that's to be considered extreme was grant the Circle autonomy (only done if the Warden was a mage, though).  I'd imagine the Chantry wasn't happy about that considering what the religion said about mages.

Anora does the same.
And Gaider said the Chantry will say no and Circle autonomy won't happen in Ferelden.

[tmp7704]

yukidama wrote...

Psychological warfare? Aren't they supposed to be mindless at this point?

I don't think they're supposed to be mindless as much as driven into action by archdemon's call. Sort of like drug addict in permanent withdrawal, they focus everything on getting their fix. Hence why in the awakening the ones who no longer are compelled to chase the song can appear about as intelligent as any human.

[Addai]

yukidama wrote...

Psychological warfare? Aren't they supposed to be mindless at this point?

Not really, if Archie is controlling them.  I've often wondered about the monuments they set up and the trophies, Cailan being the big daddy there.  I wonder if it is sort of echo feedback from when they were Tevinters.

[Maria13]

errant_knight wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Right, that is the difference.  Alistair is not a Bhelen, and thankfully not.  Henry VIII was actually milder than some of his children.  It took a very sustained, bloody and oppressive several generations to root out popular Catholicism.  The real power in the faith, as Maric and Loghain recognized after they had won the rebellion and were considering tossing the Chantry out, is that it is deeply rooted in the people.  Can you see Alistair sending royal guard in to remove Chantry amulets from people's homes?  Yeah, me neither.

Just imagine what Alistair would say if you suggested that, or some of the much worse things that were done.  He won't let you threaten a Revered Mother, imagine if you tried to execute one. You'd really get an earful!

Being personally devout as undoubtedly Alistair is does not mean that there is a blindness or an unwillingness to do nothing about Chantry power grasping...  Some of the most effective movements against abuse can come from within the churches themselves.  And I agree Henry VIII was a bloodthirsty tyrant and male chauvenist who just used religion for his own power grasping ends... But there can be other ways to do things, more subtly, can there not? Promote diversity, mutual respect and educate your population to inmure then against the execesses of superstition and fanaticism... Create a renaissance... Exercise some political control over certain freedoms instead of allowing the Chantry to determine them, create checks and balances...

Modifié par Maria13, 19 octobre 2010 - 05:21 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Psychological warfare? Aren't they supposed to be mindless at this point?

I don't think they're supposed to be mindless as much as driven into action by archdemon's call. Sort of like drug addict in permanent withdrawal, they focus everything on getting their fix. Hence why in the awakening the ones who no longer are compelled to chase the song can appear about as intelligent as any human.

There is some codex even hinting at some yearning the darkspawn have to reach perfection (this beautiful song) and when they do, they corrupt it. Almost tragic in some ways really.

So yea, they aren't mindless. They are simply enslaved by the song, which prevents them to think individually, Although codex does sugggest that not all non-Awakening darkspawn are equal. Bands can and do exist in between blights, but they aren't as organised as in Awakening.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 octobre 2010 - 05:20 .

[Persephone]

Addai67 wrote...

Briiel wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

I honestly doubt he would succeed. Not only is the Divine in Orlais, but the Chantry itself is a bloody large cult...ehm...religious establishment. One King would not get far by trying to minimize their power and by the looks of it, as soon as something happens that they don't like (e.g. building a Circle in Orzammar) they consider doing Exalted Marches.

One King can change alot ! King Henry the 8th took out catholisim in England . Well not completely out but he lessened there hold on what could be done in England. Course he was a tyrant

Right, that is the difference.  Alistair is not a Bhelen, and thankfully not.  Henry VIII was actually milder than some of his children.

That's certainly news to me. Henry VIII butchered more people than any of his children.

[mellifera]

Well, I guess if they're compelled by Archie. I just don't really see them having the thought process by themselves to be like "It'd really freak them out if we started hanging people!" I dunno.

Modifié par yukidama, 19 octobre 2010 - 05:26 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Not really, if Archie is controlling them.  I've often wondered about the monuments they set up and the trophies, Cailan being the big daddy there.  I wonder if it is sort of echo feedback from when they were Tevinters.

What I found interesting is their crescent symbol. Now of course my first reaction was raising an eyebrow as the crescent is commonly associated with my religion. But of course the crescent is a symbol that long predates it and holy symbols were in fact frowned upon by the faith, so it only became associated with us when the Turks took it up.

Anyways, the crescent, in our own human history, is a very old symbol that near Eastern civilisations used. I think it is possible that the Crescent might have been a Tevinter symbol in the DA setting.

Interestingly enough, the symbol of Dragon's Peak in Ferelden is this

http://dragonage.wik...scana_0.png</a>

Key word is Dragon, which we know the Tevinters admired. It is entirely possible that Dragon's Peak's symbol is a vestige of the Tevinter Imperium.

And if that is indeed the case, then the Darkspawn using the Crescent symbol might be a conscious or subconscious (more likely) attempt to identify with their past.
Speculation, but interesting!

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 octobre 2010 - 05:31 .

[Briiel]

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Briiel wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

I honestly doubt he would succeed. Not only is the Divine in Orlais, but the Chantry itself is a bloody large cult...ehm...religious establishment. One King would not get far by trying to minimize their power and by the looks of it, as soon as something happens that they don't like (e.g. building a Circle in Orzammar) they consider doing Exalted Marches.

One King can change alot ! King Henry the 8th took out catholisim in England . Well not completely out but he lessened there hold on what could be done in England. Course he was a tyrant

Right, that is the difference.  Alistair is not a Bhelen, and thankfully not.  Henry VIII was actually milder than some of his children.

That's certainly news to me. Henry VIII butchered more people than any of his children.

His Daughter Queen Mary killed people for not being catholics. She was said to be more of a tyrant than her father and tried to put  Catholisim back into England . She beheaded or slaughtered people for having different beliefs than her.