39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Yankee23]

errant_knight wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

We shouldn't let the "kerfuffle" discourage discussion. Imo, it has stayed respectful so far.

We must have different defintions of respectful. I thought that got darned ugly.

This morning yes, not now though.

EDIT: Can someone lend me a top? Pretty please?

Modifié par Yankee23, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:05 .

[DahliaLynn]

tmp7704 wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...

There will be a package included in the mod download site, so people will be able to choose regardless.
Still for those less mod savvy I have to make a default choice.

Just a thought, but a different way to go about it could be to have all dress variants added as outfits to the game, and then allow the player to pick the one they want in a small "wedding preparation" dialogue-based cutscene.

That is indeed an option . The problem here is I purposely made it this way, because I didn't want to change the gameflow in anyway. Creating a separate dressing room would make this more like a mod as opposed to something that was seamlessly intergated into the game, as if it were vanilla. That's sort of what I am going for. The cutscene that "wasn't shown" so to speak.
The way it's currently set up is, that It is to fire right after leaving the Landsmeet chamber if all conditions are met.and the slides will show up immediately after, along with the credits etc. 
But thanks for the advice though!  You know I'm your fan right?  

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:03 .

[Persephone]

Lady Jess wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
I know it wasn't supposed to be literal. I just don't like the comparison because I think that the HN has more legitimate cause to be upset at Howe actively seeking to kill the Couslands than Alistair in Loghain actively failing to save the Wardens. And Cailan. Many people disagree, I know.

Actually I don't disagree. When I first started Kasha and Alistair was all upset with Duncan dying and all that, and RAWR LOGHAIN I was sitting here going "DUDE?? Hi? Remember me? WHOLE FAMILY SLAUGHTERED? DIRECTLY by Howe's hand? Yeah I GET IT!!"

But then I realized Duncan/Grey Wardens = Alistair's Highever and I softened up a bit, because LACK of action resulting in the death of your family, is almost WORSE than the action being direct, if not being at least as bad

Well said. Even though I'd not equate my family with an order/club/fatherly mentor I've met 6 months ago. I'm not trying to belittle Alistair's affection for Duncan. But the poor dear is so starved for attention, he latches on pretty quickly. Be it Duncan or the Warden. Speaking of Alistair pretty much ignoring my Warden's fate.... My latest city elf was SEETHING over the fact that he kept going on and on about Duncan while my poor elven lass had to watch while a friend and her fiance being murdered and knowing that Shianni was raped.......

[errant_knight]

Lady Jess wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

All I'm saying is it's not something that ever occurred to her. I suspect that it never would. She's too confident about her family name and it's value. That, and she'd never stop fighting until her family honor was restored. The alternative is unthinkable--literally.

Ok, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that SOME couslands would find the Howe's acts while holding the title Teyrn of Highever to be a concern and reflection on their family name, and hate him for that as well as slaughtering their family. Kasha is Alistair's queen, and Warden Commander, so clearly she's holding up the honor of the Cousland name just fine in those positions. That doesn't mean she can't hate howe that much more for the fact that he used that title while he committed heinous acts against humanity, and possibly even the people of the teyrnir, and feel that they need to be addressed right alongside her family being murdered. I mean seriously, if he slaughtered the Couslands, maker only knows what he did to the people of Highever proper. It looks pretty bad to Kasha if she doesn't avenge that too. I just wish she could do it publicly.

No, I wasn't saying it invalidated anything. And of course my Cousland hated him for murdering her family. I'm just saying she'd have been just as outraged by his crimes if he hadn't, and still want to bring him to justice. It just wouldn't have been as personal. I was just countering the idea of that (good name of the Teyrn) being a primary reason for wardens in general, when it's more specific to one's personal roleplay.

Modifié par errant_knight, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:04 .

[Schratty]

yukidama wrote...

I usually don't spare Loghain in my games, but it isn't just because of Alistair. If my reasons cannot stand on their own besides "Alistair wants him dead", then I'd really see no reason to kill Loghain and Alistair can leave. Killing someone for no reason besides your boyfriend wanting him to die isn't right.

But I do feel that given on his actions, and since I cannot imprison him or have any other options besides making him a Warden (which I do not view a fitting punishment),  Loghain should die.

What if Dog told you to do it? Would that be enough justification?

Anyway, it's not my only reason for siding with Alistair, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a factor in my decision.

[Lady Jess]

Yankee23 wrote...

We shouldn't let the "kerfuffle" discourage discussion. Imo, it has stayed respectful so far.

Agreed. Like I said earlier it gets pretty dull in here when it's nothing but SQUEEESCREENSHOTGLEEEWEEE

Ahem...lol

As for killing Loghain to make Alistair happy. err...what? I'm sure alot of us have multiple reasons. So lets see my canon gals...

Aidan Aeducan, who ended with Zev but was with Alistair at the landsmeet: Alistair's feelings and hers toward him certainly played into it. BUT He hunted her down, put a bounty on her head and called her a murderer. Because her own brother framed her for murder, after playing both sides against the middle, forcing her to kill her older brother in self defense (Trian does NOT back down), got her exiled to the deep roads, and lost her first love at the same time. She sure as hell was going to have Loghain's head on a pike. She has had QUITE enough of being blamed for murders she did not commit.

Caislyn Amell: With Alistair, again his feelings play into it, as does the relationship. But Caislyn hates Loghain all on her own thank you very much. He took advantage of her friend (Jowan), causing him to get in way over his head. Yes, Jowan went along with it, but Loghain took advantage of him and his desire to return to the tower.  There is also the bounty, the assassination attempt and Ostagar. But The blood mage and tevinter slavers were the last straw for her.

Kasha Cousland: Not finished yet, but will be Queen. He supported and rewarded the man that slaughtered her family, then his actions (or lack thereof) led to the death of the man that saved her life. YES he knew what happened to the Couslands and by whome, yet he continued to reward the snake.  That makes him complicit after the fact, and he will die at my hand.

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

All I'm saying is it's not something that ever occurred to her. I suspect that it never would. She's too confident about her family name and it's value. That, and she'd never stop fighting until her family honor was restored. The alternative is unthinkable--literally.

Ok, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that SOME couslands would find the Howe's acts while holding the title Teyrn of Highever to be a concern and reflection on their family name, and hate him for that as well as slaughtering their family. Kasha is Alistair's queen, and Warden Commander, so clearly she's holding up the honor of the Cousland name just fine in those positions. That doesn't mean she can't hate howe that much more for the fact that he used that title while he committed heinous acts against humanity, and possibly even the people of the teyrnir, and feel that they need to be addressed right alongside her family being murdered. I mean seriously, if he slaughtered the Couslands, maker only knows what he did to the people of Highever proper. It looks pretty bad to Kasha if she doesn't avenge that too. I just wish she could do it publicly.

No, I wasn't saying it invalidated anything. And of course my Cousland hated him for murdering her family. I'm just saying she'd have been just as outraged by his crimes if he hadn't, and still want to bring him to justice. It just wouldn't have been as personal. I was just countering the idea of that (good name of the Teyrn) being a primary reason for wardens in general, when it's more specific to one's personal roleplay.

I think you misunderstood, I never said primary. I said OTHER reasons to hate howe.

[Sarah1281]

Yankee23 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I wonder if as many people would have trouble sparing Loghain if Alistair did not leave the party.
That seems to be the vast extent of it:
I dont want to lose Alistair!

Not saying that is the ONLY reason, but it seems to be the most popular one.

Idk, I don't think the majority of reasons I have noticed in this thread are "because I lurve Alistair", outside of this thread however, I agree that is the popular perception of why it is done. I killed Loghain on my first playthrough and had no idea Alistair would leave if I didn't.

Yeah, outside of this thread I've seen plenty of 'Well, I would have spared Loghain but Alistair would have left' and it's not even just from people who romance him. My brother killed Loghain because he thought Alistair was funny. Some people don't want to waste all the time and effort they put into levelling him up. Really, we've gone through this debate so many times that I'm sure anyone who has been around the forums long enough now has reasons besides not wanting to lose Alistair - even if that still factors in - by now.

[mellifera]

Schratty wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I usually don't spare Loghain in my games, but it isn't just because of Alistair. If my reasons cannot stand on their own besides "Alistair wants him dead", then I'd really see no reason to kill Loghain and Alistair can leave. Killing someone for no reason besides your boyfriend wanting him to die isn't right.

But I do feel that given on his actions, and since I cannot imprison him or have any other options besides making him a Warden (which I do not view a fitting punishment),  Loghain should die.

What if Dog told you to do it? Would that be enough justification?

Anyway, it's not my only reason for siding with Alistair, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a factor in my decision.

LOL, no. I may be from NYC but I'm no Son of Sam!

Oh, I am not saying that Alistair does not factor into the decision in some way, but he is a very small one that if removed would still not affect my decision. I see Loghain's other transgressions as worse than "making Alistair sad", Alistair's anger and sadness are a side effect of one of (what I percieve to be) Loghain's crimes.

Modifié par yukidama, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:11 .

[Zjarcal]

Tigress M wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
I'm sorry to bring the discussion back to this topic, but I just hate it when people say that the Warden betrays Alistair. Alistair may interpret it as a betrayal, but all you did was refuse to kill a man. If the Warden had plotted with Loghain behind Alistair's back and/or had switched to Loghain's side while the arguments were still being discussed in the Landsmeet, that would be a betrayal.

What happens in game is that you win a duel, refuse to execute the loser, and then give him a chance at redemption. At no point did my Warden say, "screw you Alistair, I'm recruiting Loghain to break your spirit!". Alistair may interpret it like that, but it sure wasn't a betrayal.

To put in a different perspective, if playing a HN, Alistair was in a situation where he could decide Rendon Howe's fate and refused to execute him while deciding to give him a chance to redeem himself, while I'd be pissed, I would never call that a betrayal.

For the record, I'm not really bothered by Alistair's reaction. Well, him abandoning everything instead of staying and fighting alongiside Eamon does bother me, but his refusal to fight alongside Loghain doesn't bother me. Talk of betrayal does.

I, for one, don't think the question is whether or not the Warden actually did betray him.  I think the point is that Alistair thought they had.  Right or wrong, that's how I think he feels.  And if he wanted to spare Howe, unlike you, my HN would feel betrayed because she would feel like Alistair didn't understand just how much that man hurt her and her family, or didn't care in the grand scheme of things.  But again, I am not saying the Warden's feelings are merited, but I am sure that's exactly how she would feel.  

The reason why I brought that up was that in the post I quoted, it was stated that "I could never betray Alistair like that", making it sound as if the mere act of sparing Loghain is in fact a betrayal. 

I understand how Alistair feels. In the alternate situation I described, my Warden would be severely pissed, probably to the point that she wouldn't want anything to do with Alistair anymore, but she would never call it a betrayal. It's not like she ever made a pact with him where they would get back at Howe.

Maybe I just interpret betrayal differently than most everyone here. 

[Persephone]

I will just say this as a daughter who has watched a parent die:

98% of my Wardens spare Loghain. Yes, HNs too. Because she has seen her father as he lay dying in a pool of his own blood. No sin can be so great as to inflict that upon another soul. The dialogue after *that* decision.....between father and daughter........it makes me feel like horrible. To see Anora's reaction, covered in her father's blood....and then she breaks down.... Imagine having to watch your father being decapitated. It makes my blood run cold. I cannot do it. And the Redeemer Ending as well as Loghain's brilliant, moving dialogue have been worth it every time. And a side note: I usually marry Alistair to Anora.

[Lady Jess]

Persephone wrote...

I will just say this as a daughter who has watched a parent die:

98% of my Wardens spare Loghain. Yes, HNs too. Because she has seen her father as he lay dying in a pool of his own blood. No sin can be so great as to inflict that upon another soul. The dialogue after *that* decision.....between father and daughter........it makes me feel like horrible. To see Anora's reaction, covered in her father's blood....and then she breaks down.... Imagine having to watch your father being decapitated. It makes my blood run cold. I cannot do it. And the Redeemer Ending as well as Loghain's brilliant, moving dialogue have been worth it every time. And a side note: I usually marry Alistair to Anora.

*hugs* simply because I too have seen it.  And in that moment, it didn't matter that he hadn't be a father to me for the last 16 years of my life at that point (I was 19 they divorced when I was 3, and I maybe saw him one day a year...his choice) it was the single, most painful and utterly shattering experience of my life.

And while my only cousland won't spare him, if she did...this would be why. But she's too angry that he supported Howe after knowing what he'd done, instead of following through on the crown's promise to deliver justice when he took the regency.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:26 .

[Addai]

Schratty wrote...
What if Dog told you to do it? Would that be enough justification?

Anyway, it's not my only reason for siding with Alistair, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a factor in my decision.

LOL

I'd be lying if I said that spending hours inside Loghain's head for my stupid  &@!(_+! ff story wouldn't make it much harder to execute him next go round.  Good thing for me, I think, that I'm pretty much DAO'ed out anyway.  My advice- never ever have a DA dream, and if you do, try to forget it the next day.    (edit:  I'm sure that's what sane people do anyway.)

Modifié par Addai67, 20 octobre 2010 - 09:34 .

[Persephone]

Lady Jess wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I will just say this as a daughter who has watched a parent die:

98% of my Wardens spare Loghain. Yes, HNs too. Because she has seen her father as he lay dying in a pool of his own blood. No sin can be so great as to inflict that upon another soul. The dialogue after *that* decision.....between father and daughter........it makes me feel like horrible. To see Anora's reaction, covered in her father's blood....and then she breaks down.... Imagine having to watch your father being decapitated. It makes my blood run cold. I cannot do it. And the Redeemer Ending as well as Loghain's brilliant, moving dialogue have been worth it every time. And a side note: I usually marry Alistair to Anora.

*hugs* simply because I too have seen it.  And in that moment, it didn't matter that he hadn't be a father to me for the last 16 years of my life at that point (I was 19 they divorced when I was 3, and I maybe saw him one day a year...his choice) it was the single, most painful and utterly shattering experience of my life.

And while my only cousland won't spare him, if she did...this would be why. But she's too angry that he supported Howe after knowing what he'd done, instead of following through on the crown's promise to deliver justice when he took the regency.

Thank you for understanding. My Mom was dying of cancer after 4 1/2 years of wasting away.... It still makes me cry to even think of it. The first time I saw that cutscene (I let Alistair duel him as I had no idea that I could spare him) I felt my heart burst. I actually cried and broke up with Alistair once the LM was over. I didn't even like Anora back then.......but that cutscene hurt in so many, horrible ways. And when I actually decided to do it in another playthrough....Anora crying out "Father!" hurt badly. And Loghain calming her so lovingly...... I  had to reload afterwards.

[AnniLau]

This thread needs a puppy to cuddle.

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

I'd be lying if I said that spending hours inside Loghain's head for my stupid  &@!(_+! ff story wouldn't make it much harder to execute him next go round.  Good thing for me, I think, that I'm pretty much DAO'ed out anyway.  My advice- never ever have a DA dream, and if you do, try to forget it the next day.    (edit:  I'm sure that's what sane people do anyway.)

Nah, it's a good thing you had that dream and chose not to forget it!

[Lady Jess]

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I'd be lying if I said that spending hours inside Loghain's head for my stupid  &@!(_+! ff story wouldn't make it much harder to execute him next go round.  Good thing for me, I think, that I'm pretty much DAO'ed out anyway.  My advice- never ever have a DA dream, and if you do, try to forget it the next day.    (edit:  I'm sure that's what sane people do anyway.)

Nah, it's a good thing you had that dream and chose not to forget it!

I agree, it's become one of my favorite fics! *waits for more*

[Persephone]

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I'd be lying if I said that spending hours inside Loghain's head for my stupid  &@!(_+! ff story wouldn't make it much harder to execute him next go round.  Good thing for me, I think, that I'm pretty much DAO'ed out anyway.  My advice- never ever have a DA dream, and if you do, try to forget it the next day.    (edit:  I'm sure that's what sane people do anyway.)

Nah, it's a good thing you had that dream and chose not to forget it!

Indeed!  One of the best Loghain stories came out of that dream. Don't you dare regret it! :happy:

[Zjarcal]

AnniLau wrote...

This thread needs a puppy to cuddle.

That is soooooooooooooooooooo cute!!! 

[Addai]

Lady Jess wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I'd be lying if I said that spending hours inside Loghain's head for my stupid  &@!(_+! ff story wouldn't make it much harder to execute him next go round.  Good thing for me, I think, that I'm pretty much DAO'ed out anyway.  My advice- never ever have a DA dream, and if you do, try to forget it the next day.    (edit:  I'm sure that's what sane people do anyway.)

Nah, it's a good thing you had that dream and chose not to forget it!

I agree, it's become one of my favorite fics! *waits for more*

Thanks.  I had hoped to have another chapter up on the weekend, but this one is giving me fits.  Some of them come more easily than others.  It's getting there, though.

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...

I'd be lying if I said that spending hours inside Loghain's head for my stupid  &@!(_+! ff story wouldn't make it much harder to execute him next go round.  Good thing for me, I think, that I'm pretty much DAO'ed out anyway.  My advice- never ever have a DA dream, and if you do, try to forget it the next day.    (edit:  I'm sure that's what sane people do anyway.)

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...
Thanks.  I had hoped to have another chapter up on the weekend, but this one is giving me fits.  Some of them come more easily than others.  It's getting there, though.

Yeah, considering how close you were getting to a 'certain event', I imagine that has to be a challenge to write.

[Tigress M]

We have not had nearly enough Alistair pics today... so here's my latest contribution. Between this adorable smile and sexy chest, I'm not sure how much longer my elf can hold out.

[Zeleen]

AnniLau wrote...

This thread needs a puppy to cuddle.

OMG sooo cute and so "talking" in his/her sleep

[Addai]

AnniLau wrote...

This thread needs a puppy to cuddle.

Puppy!  Where is SurelyForth??

Re. Alistair's leaving, it will be interesting if DA2 makes that one of his more compelling endings.  By compelling I mean that he gets to redeem himself and do something heroic, rather than it just being sad.