39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Jess]

Zeleen wrote...

lovely weapons, what are they?  outfit is cool too

Those are Andraste's Weapons and Serissia's Black Leather Armor

And Smut Day!
Dwarf Lovin'!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Well I have to agree with those, including David Gaider, who say that while Alistair's reaction at the LM is understandable, his complete abandonment of Ferelden and the Blight is not, and is something he will come to regret.  Since he regrets it (according to the writer), obviously Alistair thinks he needs redemption.  To me that is the saddest part about his drunk ending, because while feeling betrayed by your closest companions is bad enough, it is hardest to pick yourself up when you've let yourself down.

Yep.
If we indeed have that chance to redeem him in DA2, I'd likely load up a save where he is exiled. Probably my Aurora Cousland playthrough. Not my canon, but close to my heart.

[Giggles_Manically]

What would be interesting is if they added dialouge depending on if he was:

Hardened/Unhardened

Romanced/Not Romanced

The Race of the Warden



Somewhat like what happens in LOTSB and some lines of dialouge.

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Well I have to agree with those, including David Gaider, who say that while Alistair's reaction at the LM is understandable, his complete abandonment of Ferelden and the Blight is not, and is something he will come to regret.  Since he regrets it (according to the writer), obviously Alistair thinks he needs redemption.  To me that is the saddest part about his drunk ending, because while feeling betrayed by your closest companions is bad enough, it is hardest to pick yourself up when you've let yourself down.

Yep.
If we indeed have that chance to redeem him in DA2, I'd likely load up a save where he is exiled. Probably my Aurora Cousland playthrough. Not my canon, but close to my heart.

I agree too. I don't have anyone but an old saved HNF somewhere that did that ending. I can't bring myself to do it again so I'll have to use her I guess.

[Yankee23]

errant_knight wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

This thread needs a puppy to cuddle.

Puppy!  Where is SurelyForth??

Re. Alistair's leaving, it will be interesting if DA2 makes that one of his more compelling endings.  By compelling I mean that he gets to redeem himself and do something heroic, rather than it just being sad.

I'd like that. And I definitely think it's possible. With Steve Valentine being back! (Still hoping for more Loghain in DA2, but that won't happen, I fear....)

Personally, I don't see a need for redemption in that ending. But then I think  he was betrayed (winks at Zjarcal). It is brutally sad, though. I'd like to see him find someone/something he cares about and can believe in again.

Like lady!hawke and whatever she will be up too!

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Personally, I don't see a need for redemption in that ending. But then I think  he was betrayed (winks at Zjarcal). It is brutally sad, though. I'd like to see him find someone/something he cares about and can believe in again.

Well I have to agree with those, including David Gaider, who say that while Alistair's reaction at the LM is understandable, his complete abandonment of Ferelden and the Blight is not, and is something he will come to regret.  Since he regrets it (according to the writer), obviously Alistair thinks he needs redemption.  To me that is the saddest part about his drunk ending, because while feeling betrayed by your closest companions is bad enough, it is hardest to pick yourself up when you've let yourself down.

This pinpoints exactly where we disagree. I do agree that he will come to regret it, and that he might well consider it a personal failiure. In fact I agree with everything you've said except that regret equals a need for redemption. Now, a less strong word, I might be able to agree with agree with. I see Loghain actions as needing redemption, and I don't equate Alistair's act of leaving during the blight to them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yankee23 wrote...
Like lady!hawke and whatever she will be up too!

You wouldn't mind if he fell in love with Lady Hawke and started using the exact same tricks to woo her?

[mellifera]

Lol, Alistair romancing Hawke? That'd be boring, to be honest. As a temp companion or someone you talk to, fine. But I kind of don't want the same people to romance as a different character.

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...
Like lady!hawke and whatever she will be up too!

You wouldn't mind if he fell in love with Lady Hawke and started using the exact same tricks to woo her?

Heh, he's still him, on some level. A bitter, bitter him, but still the same guy with the same repertoire. If he's still capable of falling in love, that would be a wonderful thing--with whomever it was.

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

This pinpoints exactly where we disagree. I do agree that he will come to regret it, and that he might well consider it a personal failiure. In fact I agree with everything you've said except that regret equals a need for redemption. Now, a less strong word, I might be able to agree with agree with. I see Loghain actions as needing redemption, and I don't equate Alistair's act of leaving during the blight to them.

Okay, that seems like a semantic quibble but whatever.  What I meant is that he needs to pull himself up from whatever gutter he's landed in.

[KnightofPhoenix]

yukidama wrote...

Lol, Alistair romancing Hawke? That'd be boring, to be honest. As a temp companion or someone you talk to, fine. But I kind of don't want the same people to romance as a different character.

I was just teasing, yea I know.

And your and Errant's reactions are actually quite mature.
Ask me what I would think of Morigan and Hawke together and that's what you get

[Yankee23]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...
Like lady!hawke and whatever she will be up too!

You wouldn't mind if he fell in love with Lady Hawke and started using the exact same tricks to woo her?

Why not? He uses the same tricks on all my wardens.   I'd probably do a run through with a male that spares Loghain if that were the case in DA2. 

[Addai]

yukidama wrote...

Lol, Alistair romancing Hawke? That'd be boring, to be honest. As a temp companion or someone you talk to, fine. But I kind of don't want the same people to romance as a different character.

I'll be interested in whatever interaction they decide to give him, but yeah I agree it's not something that appeals to me.   I mean, if we get a roll in the hay with him, not to say I wouldn't... 

Same with Nathaniel Howe, who IMO is a more likely candidate for the hit it and quit it that David Gaider mentioned.  In my mind he's already destined for my Orlesian elf chick in my game, but if I end up playing DA2, Marian whatsherface can give him some aid and comfort and I won't mind.

[Giggles_Manically]

Or you could wait for a DA save site to go up like they do for ME.

I had to use it because I lost my old PC with all my saves.

[Lady Jess]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

This pinpoints exactly where we disagree. I do agree that he will come to regret it, and that he might well consider it a personal failiure. In fact I agree with everything you've said except that regret equals a need for redemption. Now, a less strong word, I might be able to agree with agree with. I see Loghain actions as needing redemption, and I don't equate Alistair's act of leaving during the blight to them.

Okay, that seems like a semantic quibble but whatever.  What I meant is that he needs to pull himself up from whatever gutter he's landed in.

I go with redemption too. And the dictionary agrees with it's use, in the sense of the DG info as well as whatever gutter he landed in. Both are definitions of Redemption and suit the situation.

re·demp·tion noun
1. an act of redeeming or the state of being redeemed.
2. deliverance; rescue.
3.Theology. deliverance from sin; salvation.
4. atonement for guilt.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 21 octobre 2010 - 04:10 .

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

This pinpoints exactly where we disagree. I do agree that he will come to regret it, and that he might well consider it a personal failiure. In fact I agree with everything you've said except that regret equals a need for redemption. Now, a less strong word, I might be able to agree with agree with. I see Loghain actions as needing redemption, and I don't equate Alistair's act of leaving during the blight to them.

Okay, that seems like a semantic quibble but whatever.  What I meant is that he needs to pull himself up from whatever gutter he's landed in.

Semantics matter, otherwise we could throw out half the english laguage. But I can agree with that completely.

[errant_knight]

Lady Jess wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

This pinpoints exactly where we disagree. I do agree that he will come to regret it, and that he might well consider it a personal failiure. In fact I agree with everything you've said except that regret equals a need for redemption. Now, a less strong word, I might be able to agree with agree with. I see Loghain actions as needing redemption, and I don't equate Alistair's act of leaving during the blight to them.

Okay, that seems like a semantic quibble but whatever.  What I meant is that he needs to pull himself up from whatever gutter he's landed in.

I go with redemption too. And the dictionary agrees with it's use, in the sense of the DG info as well as whatever gutter he landed in. Both are definitions of Redemption and suit the situation.

re·demp·tion noun
1. an act of redeeming or the state of being redeemed.
2. deliverance; rescue.
3.Theology. deliverance from sin; salvation.
4. atonement for guilt.

Hmmm. I don't think regret and guilt are the same thing, either. He can feel guilt without bearing guilt. If he'd left when there were no other wardens, or when the PC was the only one, then okay, redemption would be required, but I still think it's too strong a word for leaving them with exactly the same numbers they had before the PC chose to recruit Loghain.

[tuppence95]

I also agree that Alistair would come to deeply regret leaving the Grey Wardens, which is probably why he becomes a drunk.  And I think he'd feel that he needed redemption.  Maybe some of his party members would agree.  I've never done that ending with a female warden.  My male warden felt that Alistair's departure was a betrayal, but he never really took the time to get to know him, so he didn't really understand how sparing Loghain was like turning on Alistair and killing off what little he had left in his life.  He was too busy politicking and arranging himself in a position of power.

I don't think I'd like to see Alistair as a LI with a new character.  Sure I (the player) would enjoy spending time with that character, but it would feel odd and wrong for my current character and the ones I've left behind.

But I always enjoy listening to that voice, so I'm looking forward to whatever they come up with for him.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...
re·demp·tion noun
1. an act of redeeming or the state of being redeemed.
2. deliverance; rescue.
3.Theology. deliverance from sin; salvation.
4. atonement for guilt.

If you consider the Warden cause / order / belief (that Alistair knows and shared), then number 3 might apply as well, since turning one's back to the Blight would probably be regarded as a "sin" or a betrayal.

Not a perfect analogy since there is no Warden theology. But from a purely Warden perspective, what Alistair did might be seen as a very bad thing to do, so somewhat like sin without religious / spiritual connotation.

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

This pinpoints exactly where we disagree. I do agree that he will come to regret it, and that he might well consider it a personal failiure. In fact I agree with everything you've said except that regret equals a need for redemption. Now, a less strong word, I might be able to agree with agree with. I see Loghain actions as needing redemption, and I don't equate Alistair's act of leaving during the blight to them.

Okay, that seems like a semantic quibble but whatever.  What I meant is that he needs to pull himself up from whatever gutter he's landed in.

I go with redemption too. And the dictionary agrees with it's use, in the sense of the DG info as well as whatever gutter he landed in. Both are definitions of Redemption and suit the situation.

re·demp·tion noun
1. an act of redeeming or the state of being redeemed.
2. deliverance; rescue.
3.Theology. deliverance from sin; salvation.
4. atonement for guilt.

Hmmm. I don't think regret and guilt are the same thing, either. He can feel guilt without bearing guilt. If he'd left when there were no other wardens, or when the PC was the only one, then okay, redemption would be required, but I still think it's too strong a word for leaving them with exactly the same numbers they had before the PC chose to recruit Loghain.

How many people do YOU know that don't feel guilt when they regret something? Honestly you are being way too fussy about the words here, even wqhen they come from the writer himself.

[Wulfram]

errant_knight wrote...

Hmmm. I don't think regret and guilt are the same thing, either. He can feel guilt without bearing guilt. If he'd left when there were no other wardens, or when the PC was the only one, then okay, redemption would be required, but I still think it's too strong a word for leaving them with exactly the same numbers they had before the PC chose to recruit Loghain.

I think he would need redemption in his own eyes, no matter his actual guilt.

[mellifera]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Lol, Alistair romancing Hawke? That'd be boring, to be honest. As a temp companion or someone you talk to, fine. But I kind of don't want the same people to romance as a different character.

I was just teasing, yea I know.

And your and Errant's reactions are actually quite mature.
Ask me what I would think of Morigan and Hawke together and that's what you get

LOL. It's not out of selfishness or possessiveness over Alistair, I just don't want him again :innocent:

[Addai]

tuppence95 wrote...

But I always enjoy listening to that voice, so I'm looking forward to whatever they come up with for him.

Agreed, Steve Valentine FTW 

And who am I kidding, if it is confirmed that Alistair is in DA2, I'm gonna be buying it on release date, and the squee is going to hit the fan the minute I hear SV's voice coming out of the speakers.  I've already gotten the eyeroll from the male side of Addai67 over this.

Him:  I thought we weren't getting DA2.
Me:  But, Alistair!
Him:  ....

Ok, more nekkidity... it's Maricstair, get over it...

[errant_knight]

Wulfram wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Hmmm. I don't think regret and guilt are the same thing, either. He can feel guilt without bearing guilt. If he'd left when there were no other wardens, or when the PC was the only one, then okay, redemption would be required, but I still think it's too strong a word for leaving them with exactly the same numbers they had before the PC chose to recruit Loghain.

I think he would need redemption in his own eyes, no matter his actual guilt.

That I agree with completely!

[KnightofPhoenix]

yukidama wrote...

I just don't want him again :innocent:

You're too busy enjoying nutella smothered Hawke, right?

But yea I am looking forward to new romances!
Hopefully we get a male LI for Lady Hawke that I would like more than those in Origins.