39010 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

Aeowyn wrote...
To be fair, if there was an option to spare Loghain AND convince Alistair that it is the right thing to do without him leaving, I think more people would spare him.

Given the choice to recruit him, spare his life or kill him - how many people would spare but not recruit him?

Modifié par klarabella, 31 octobre 2010 - 01:05 .

[Persephone]

klarabella wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...
To be fair, if there was an option to spare Loghain AND convince Alistair that it is the right thing to do without him leaving, I think more people would spare him.

Given the choice to recruit him, spare his life or kill him - how many people would spare but not recruit him?

Good question there, Klarabella. Several of my Wardens would choose different options, had they been available. (A trial, telling Alistair to back off as this was not a duel to the death, exile, asking for a Landsmeet vote etc.)

[CalJones]

Ooh will it? I think I'm mostly done with Origins now - I've played through it enough that I know it by heart and I can't summon enough enthusiasm to go back through the Fade and Deep Roads again. But I'll play it again for Phaonica's mod, however long that takes.

[Aeowyn]

Persephone wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

To be fair, if there was an option to spare Loghain AND convince Alistair that it is the right thing to do without him leaving, I think more people would spare him.

Well, keeping Alistair has never been my issue, even though most of my gals usually fall for him. I suppose that is DAO's Virmire decision. Buuuuuuuuuut: Phaonica's Loghain expansion will make this possible, if my memory serves me right.

On topic: In my most recent playthrough I did not take Alistair to Redcliffe. So I won't find out just who my Warden is falling for until I awaken Eamon. Is it worth the wait? (Trying to do things I haven't done yet in this one. I.E. Killing Connor. And I may have hated Isolde before........but her pleas........DAMN!) 

Well, you still get chewed out by Alistair if he isn't there when you kill Isolde/Connor. He hears it from the other companions.

Also, Alistair will be there when Eamon wakes up, even if you didn't bring him with you. You get some new dialogue which is pretty funny to hear, but other then that it's pretty much the same.

I went to Redcliffe alone in my last playthrough. Was pretty funny. Didn't tell Teagan I was a Warden at first so they just assumed I was a random stranger who came to help lol

And yes, if I had the option to spare Loghain but not make him a Warden, I would've chosen that.

[Bratt1204]

inclemency wrote...

'Night. Reposting this because I like it and it's got rak's armour

<3<3

[Persephone]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Oh, I know why people spare him, and as the player, I could see it happening.  However, the characters in the situation don't have the same info I do.  I don't want to turn this into a debate either, but I don't think that's going to happen  We're being very civil.

1) I'd prefer to execute Loghain not in the Landsmeet chamber, but meh.  I can live with it.

2) Most of the time, I never hear Riordan's dialogue.  And when I do, Alistair's reaction sways me.  However shallow and childish people might find it, he's usually the only person I still have whom I love, and my PC is not going to let Loghain take that from her, too.

3) Not everyone deserves redemption, but if you want to consider it such, his execution can serve as that.

4) For some of my PCs, HNs in particular, there are just some things you don't do as a Fereldan and slavery is one of them.  You just...don't do it.

5)  Characters have never read the novels.

6)  Again, characters don't know all that history.

This is all RP-based, mind you.  I try not to use meta-knowledge when I play.

Did you ever get that Duncan dialogue to show up?  Sorry if you said and I missed it.

Ah, see, I TRY not to meta-game, but when it comes to certain decisions (Connor, werewolves, Loghain) it always becomes a factor. :happy:

1) I can't. I also refuse to be judge, jury and executioner all in one.

2) Loghain does not take Alistair away. Alistair makes the decision to walk out on you, despite your need of him. Now that maybe understandable (I find it to be childish and a betrayal of everything Duncan struggled to achieve, rather than the other way round) though I understand many Wardens wanting to keep your longest running companion around. But the moment he said "Have fun stopping the Blight. Or whatever!" my Warden wanted to shake some sense into him. His behavior mortified her.

3) I believe everyone deserves redemption. People who have done far worse redeemed themselves. And his path to redemption is beautifully poignant IMO.

4) Duly noted.

5) No, but esp. HN should know the history, no? 

6) Ah. True again.

And thanks for asking, yes, I got it to show up at camp. I was very happy. :happy:

[Persephone]

Aeowyn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

To be fair, if there was an option to spare Loghain AND convince Alistair that it is the right thing to do without him leaving, I think more people would spare him.

Well, keeping Alistair has never been my issue, even though most of my gals usually fall for him. I suppose that is DAO's Virmire decision. Buuuuuuuuuut: Phaonica's Loghain expansion will make this possible, if my memory serves me right.

On topic: In my most recent playthrough I did not take Alistair to Redcliffe. So I won't find out just who my Warden is falling for until I awaken Eamon. Is it worth the wait? (Trying to do things I haven't done yet in this one. I.E. Killing Connor. And I may have hated Isolde before........but her pleas........DAMN!) 

Well, you still get chewed out by Alistair if he isn't there when you kill Isolde/Connor. He hears it from the other companions.

Also, Alistair will be there when Eamon wakes up, even if you didn't bring him with you. You get some new dialogue which is pretty funny to hear, but other then that it's pretty much the same.

I went to Redcliffe alone in my last playthrough. Was pretty funny. Didn't tell Teagan I was a Warden at first so they just assumed I was a random stranger who came to help lol

And yes, if I had the option to spare Loghain but not make him a Warden, I would've chosen that.

OH, LOL, I have to try that! :lol: Yeah, he chewed me out alright. BUT: High cunning showed him that this was about HIS issues with the Arl and not so much about my Warden. (Very poignant moment, that.)

[Aeowyn]

Hehe yeah. I always choose that option. Just think the whole thing is stupid.

[sabreene]

@CalJones -- I don't think I ever saw the original unmorphed picture! It makes it even funnier to see it.



@LadyD - I'll be interested to read your AU Loghain story! After reading TST I became more interested in him.



Loghain doesn't usually get spared in my games, since my wardens tend to be the suspicious type that don't believe he's actually given in and don't trust him to not put a knife in their back, whether he's gone through the joining ritual or no.



But I do think there are good reasons on each side to spare or not to spare, it really just depends on your RP.

[Maria13]

I don't think I would spare Loghain even if I didn't have to recruit him. He is an impediment he has done several immoral things and he needs to be removed.



Re LD's list above one of my main reasons for executing Loghain of which the characters are aware is that he attempted to blame the GWs for the Ostagar debacle and hunted them down. He cannot even assume responsibility for his own actions.

[tuppence95]

I did spare Loghain twice, and I agree that his dialogue is very poignant.

I spared him with my power-hungry HNM who married Anora and with my cold-hearted female human blood mage.  Those will probably be the only times he gets spared in my games, even though I still think he's one of the most fascinating characters in the game.

Many, but not all of my characters are either in love with or best friends with Alistair, but that's not the reason I usually won't spare Loghain.  Aside from the obvious issues like that he sold elves into slavery, and he aligned with the man who killed my HN's family and then rewarded him for it, I mostly execute him for his crimes against Ferelden.  His obsession about Orlais drives him to do everything in his power to destroy and kill the wardens, thus preventing the Blight from being stopped from overtaking the country.  That's kind of a deal breaker for the majority of my characters.  I don't like killing him in front of his daughter.  That's pretty awful.  But I can't just let him go unpunished for what is basically treason.

I do think he's probably the best written character in the game after Alistair.  But what's with the stupid braids?   Why would a tough man like that walk around in public with those silly things hanging from his head?  Same with Teagan!  I adore him, but hate his hair.  To me, the only male braids that don't look stupid are the Maric braids.


*edited because my original sentence about the Blight made no sense.  

Modifié par tuppence95, 31 octobre 2010 - 02:36 .

[Briiel]

Happy Halloween Alistairians and friends!!!

For me the whole Lohgain thing is blah. While I don't like having to behead a guy in the landsmeet. I am not given much options to work with.

For me I always side with Alistair.I have traveled with him for over a year (in a rp sense),I have bonded with him. I have loved him.He was there through everything.

I also think how would I feel if the person I loved with all my heart decided to side with someone I had so much hatred for?? ME personally, I would be broken like I had just been stabbed in the chest with a dull blade.My characters are emotionally attached to their little band of misfits.

Now if there was a option to spare Lohgain and throw him in the dungeon til after we handle the blight. So he could have a trial amongst his peers. Lohgain would get spared more by me. I have not read the books. Tho I have talked a great deal with others about him. I think he is a tragic person in this story because they don't give him much options.

*edit*
I agree with Tuppence on the last part. I have not spared him as of yet and it's really hard for me to not side with Alistair. I might have to put a Hideous morph on AListair so that when he's angry all I feel like doing is .Or maybe my mage can quickly go thru it and if I hit esc alot :crying:because making Alistair hurt would make me :crying:

Modifié par Briiel, 31 octobre 2010 - 02:47 .

[Persephone]

Well, I've said my piece when it comes to Loghain vs. Alistair. I could of course argue in more detail as to why I make that choice and why Alistair won't corner me into killing someone I do not wish to kill, but I believe I made my point. I still love Alistair a lot and I HOPE that DA2 will make my decision worthwile regarding his character development.

[Yankee23]

tuppence95 wrote...

I did spare Loghain twice, and I agree that his dialogue is very poignant.

I spared him with my power-hungry HNM who married Anora and with my cold-hearted female human blood mage.  Those will probably be the only times he gets spared in my games, even though I still think he's one of the most fascinating characters in the game.

Many, but not all of my characters are either in love with or best friends with Alistair, but that's not the reason I usually won't spare Loghain.  Aside from the obvious issues like that he sold elves into slavery, and he aligned with the man who killed my HN's family and then rewarded him for it, I mostly execute him for his crimes against Ferelden.  His obsession about Orlais drives him to do everything in his power to destroy and kill the wardens, thus preventing the Blight from being stopped from overtaking the country.  That's kind of a deal breaker for the majority of my characters.  I don't like killing him in front of his daughter.  That's pretty awful.  But I can't just let him go unpunished for what is basically treason.

I do think he's probably the best written character in the game after Alistair.  But what's with the stupid braids?   Why would a tough man like that walk around in public with those silly things hanging from his head?  Same with Teagan!  I adore him, but hate his hair.  To me, the only male braids that don't look stupid are the Maric braids.


*edited because my original sentence about the Blight made no sense.  

This.

His Orlesian obsession and and everything he does after Ostagar convince my wardens that he needs to face his crimes. If there were an option to lock him up for trial I would probably take it on some of my playthroughs but the choices your are given in game are kill him or basically let him go unpunished, so...

As far as Alistair is concerned, I may not like it but I do understand his reaction, but for me, the ONLY role Alistair plays in my decision to kill Loghain is a metagame reason as the player...why would I want to loose my favorite companion by making a choice I don't like anyway?

[tuppence95]

Persephone wrote...

Well, I've said my piece when it comes to Loghain vs. Alistair. I could of course argue in more detail as to why I make that choice and why Alistair won't corner me into killing someone I do not wish to kill, but I believe I made my point. I still love Alistair a lot and I HOPE that DA2 will make my decision worthwile regarding his character development.

I love this game because it has such a variety of paths and it has things that appeal to so many different types of personalities.  It's always interesting how we can each look at it and see completely different things.  As long as we all remain civil to each other, it's fun to discuss our differences of opinions.  

[LadyDamodred]

sabreene wrote...
@LadyD - I'll be interested to read your AU Loghain story! After reading TST I became more interested in him.

It's more an Alistair/Maric AU, so not Loghain centric.  However, he's in it.  Trying to pull from the good parts we see in game with what we saw in the books and putting them all together in this AU universe.  It's going to be a little challenging, since I'll confess I'm not very comfortable writing the man, but I think it'll work.  I have a couple scenes in my head that are nice. 

Persephone:  Yay for dialogue that appears!  Also, I like being able to hold discussions without things falling into chaos. \\o/  And lot of the controversy surrounding Loghain at the Landsmeet can be avoided by having Alistair duel him.  Handy, that. 

[Tigress M]

Believe it or not, I don't spare Loghain because of Alistair. My reasons are all about my PCs feeling like Loghain betrayed the Wardens. The only time I've spared Loghain is on my DN playthrough because she understood battle tactics and could see Loghain's retreat was a reaction to impossible odds.

Perhaps my HNs might know that as well, but with them there is always the fact that knowingly or unknowningly, he worked with the man who killed my Warden's family.

But as for the rest of my Wardens, they know nothing of battles on a grand scale and cannot see past Loghain's retreat as a death sentence for the Wardens, this Order that for whatever reason, they have joined and therefore feel a loyalty to.

[Briiel]

LadyDamodred wrote...

sabreene wrote...
@LadyD - I'll be interested to read your AU Loghain story! After reading TST I became more interested in him.

It's more an Alistair/Maric AU, so not Loghain centric.  However, he's in it.  Trying to pull from the good parts we see in game with what we saw in the books and putting them all together in this AU universe.  It's going to be a little challenging, since I'll confess I'm not very comfortable writing the man, but I think it'll work.  I have a couple scenes in my head that are nice. 

Persephone:  Yay for dialogue that appears!  Also, I like being able to hold discussions without things falling into chaos. \\\\o/  And lot of the controversy surrounding Loghain at the Landsmeet can be avoided by having Alistair duel him.  Handy, that. 

what happens if you let Alistair duel him ??

[Tigress M]

Briiel wrote...
what happens if you let Alistair duel him ??

If Alistair duels Loghain, he will turn right around and kill him, without any other convos.  

[LadyDamodred]

I should point out that I don't execute Loghain b/c Alistair wants me to, but that when I have to put them on the balance scales, Alistair is worth more to me than Loghain. By a lot.

[tuppence95]

Tigress M wrote...

The only time I've spared Loghain is on my DN playthrough because she understood battle tactics and could see Loghain's retreat was a reaction to impossible odds.
 

I've heard people discussing his retreat as a necessary tactical choice.  This might have been acceptable to my wardens, if he didn't turn around immediately and blame it on her and try repeatedly to have her killed for it.

[Briiel]

@Tigress:

@Lady D: I feel much the same way...Even my male cousland Mac think's Alistair is a awesome frat buddy ...
Mac got the line about Alistair in a dress and their dialogue had me rolling in stitches . Specially when Duncan groans at the both of them. Alistair to me is a likeable fellow.

*edit*
@Tuppence: See that's how I view it. He had tried to kill me several times. It's like using a uneven scale where the balance tips against Lohgain.
Alistair tried to kill me how many times ?? 0
Lohgain tried to kill me how many times ?? 8453 (exaggerated number i know:P)

Modifié par Briiel, 31 octobre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Yankee23]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I should point out that I don't execute Loghain b/c Alistair wants me to, but that when I have to put them on the balance scales, Alistair is worth more to me than Loghain. By a lot.

I feel the same way but I knew absolutely nothing about this game the first time I played and saw no reason to spare Loghain and have yet to find one. Alistair is definitely more important to me than Loghain and I don't want to lose him, but that doesn't influence my decision...probably because it doesn't need to, Loghain has done enough to warrent execution even without adding Alistair to the equation.

[Briiel]

I agree Yankee!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Why is it I always miss the good discussions?! And always end up in naughty ones?

....Is it too late if I expain my rational for sparing Loghain and executing Alistair....?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 octobre 2010 - 04:08 .