Lady Jess wrote...
For our Skeleton companion loving friends, I discovered a spell combo last night on Caislyn (I love those little surprises)
*snip*
This will be fun!
Modifié par inclemency, 31 octobre 2010 - 06:20 .
Costin_Razvan wrote...
And it always baffles me to a level that people just use their friendship as an excuse to kill someone.
Friends do not ask friends to kill another person.
rak72 wrote...
If you excuse Loghain's actions because you honestly believe that he believed the GW's were trying to betray Fereldan, than that would make Log a completely insane, delusional nut case. The GW's never did anything to indicate they were tring to overthrow Fereldan. Why would anyone want someone with such a tenuous grasp of reality watching their back? And having someone that was there with you the whole time, ACTUALY watching your back, executed is just cold and wrong. Whether or not you are BFFs, or just mildly sociable.
Costin_Razvan wrote...
If you excuse Loghain's actions because you honestly believe that he believed the GW's were trying to betray Fereldan, than that would make Log a completely insane, delusional nut case.
Excuse Loghain's actions? When did Knight say he was excusing them for that?
Knight didn't feel Loghain's actions needed excusing for the most part ( except for a few things ).
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
LadyDamodred wrote...
I suppose, for me, it's a personality thing. I am loyal to a fault, especially to those I love and my friends. Certain traits carry over to my PCs and that's one of them. I cannot ever conceive of killing someone I love or a friend because my image might take a hit. It just.... It's not going to happen ever. I can't wrap my head around it. I know and understand logically what you're saying, but on a deeper level, it will always leave me baffled.
A belief that you are of course perfectly entitled to have.
I see it differently. When oen forfiets their loyalty to me, I do nto feel obliged to return it.
tuppence95 wrote...
How did Arcturus feel about Loghain rewarding Howe for killing your parents and claiming they were traitors?
tuppence95 wrote...
Also, we learned right at the start of the game, and apparently it is common "knowledge" that Grey Wardens are needed to end the Blight. Now, maybe that is just a story made up by the wardens to glorify themselves. But with a Blight coming, would a smart person really want to take a chance on ignoring that?
tuppence95 wrote...
Again, I say, if Loghain had been successful, he would have been responsible for the destruction of Ferelden. My warden knew that. She felt his continued attempts showed that he was not rational. Even Cauthrien admitted he was not in his right mind. To my warden, that didn't make him a trustworthy candidate and good warden material.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 octobre 2010 - 06:25 .
rak72 wrote...
KoP stated that he didn't take the assasination attempts and such personaly because Log thought he was doing what was right. Therefore, KoP excused the assasination attempts and such.
Persephone wrote...
rak72 wrote...
If you excuse Loghain's actions because you honestly believe that he believed the GW's were trying to betray Fereldan, than that would make Log a completely insane, delusional nut case. The GW's never did anything to indicate they were tring to overthrow Fereldan. Why would anyone want someone with such a tenuous grasp of reality watching their back? And having someone that was there with you the whole time, ACTUALY watching your back, executed is just cold and wrong. Whether or not you are BFFs, or just mildly sociable.
Have you read "The Calling" or played Soldier's Peak? The Wardens were guilty of treason twice.
rak72 wrote...
I'm talking about Ostagar, Log drew up the plans, the GW's were all fighting where they were suppose to be. How does Log get off saying that the GW's were in some conspiracy there. What did they do in Ostagar that justified Log hunting Al & PC down like dogs for 2 yrs?
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
rak72 wrote...
I'm talking about Ostagar, Log drew up the plans, the GW's were all fighting where they were suppose to be. How does Log get off saying that the GW's were in some conspiracy there. What did they do in Ostagar that justified Log hunting Al & PC down like dogs for 2 yrs?
Grey Wardens amassing at the borders with 4 legions of chevaliers is one reason.
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
tuppence95 wrote...
Again, I say, if Loghain had been successful, he would have been responsible for the destruction of Ferelden. My warden knew that. She felt his continued attempts showed that he was not rational. Even Cauthrien admitted he was not in his right mind. To my warden, that didn't make him a trustworthy candidate and good warden material.
Arcturus didn't know that actually, until Riordan told him. Before that, he didn't know.
So that's hindesight logic that my character could not have used.
Modifié par tuppence95, 31 octobre 2010 - 06:33 .
rak72 wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
rak72 wrote...
I'm talking about Ostagar, Log drew up the plans, the GW's were all fighting where they were suppose to be. How does Log get off saying that the GW's were in some conspiracy there. What did they do in Ostagar that justified Log hunting Al & PC down like dogs for 2 yrs?
Grey Wardens amassing at the borders with 4 legions of chevaliers is one reason.
And they were obviously needed since Log quit the field sincee didn't have the manpower himself to defeat the DS. Just would have been nice if he told everyone else that he wasn't going to be sticking around.
tuppence95 wrote...
Ok, I'm willing to buy the fact that your warden believed the answers you gave me in my other questions. But even though we did now know how to kill an archdemon, we knew that our one purpose was to defeat the blight.
tuppence95 wrote...
His daughter tells us he is obsessed. She tells us he might have had her killed. She and Cauthrien both tell us he is not rational. His daughter tells the landsmeet that his man is no longer the Hero of River Dane. All these things are not hindsight. They happen before we must make a decision about Loghain's fate at LM. For my wardens, these things all chalk up to a person who is not a person I would want watching my back.
tuppence95 wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
tuppence95 wrote...
Again, I say, if Loghain had been successful, he would have been responsible for the destruction of Ferelden. My warden knew that. She felt his continued attempts showed that he was not rational. Even Cauthrien admitted he was not in his right mind. To my warden, that didn't make him a trustworthy candidate and good warden material.
Arcturus didn't know that actually, until Riordan told him. Before that, he didn't know.
So that's hindesight logic that my character could not have used.
Ok, I'm willing to buy the fact that your warden believed the answers you gave me in my other questions. But even though we did now know how to kill an archdemon, we knew that our one purpose was to defeat the blight. At least my wardens didn't believe that it was an old wives tale that Duncan told for entertainment value. We believed that was our sole purpose. And we knew that Loghain made one move after another that would prevent us from doing that. Maybe his withdrawal from Ostagar could have been chalked up to a tactical decision, but his lying about the wardens being responsible and his attempts to have us killed were not.
His daughter tells us he is obsessed. She tells us he might have had her killed. She and Cauthrien both tell us he is not rational. His daughter tells the landsmeet that his man is no longer the Hero of River Dane. All these things are not hindsight. They happen before we must make a decision about Loghain's fate at LM. For my wardens, these things all chalk up to a person who is not a person I would want watching my back.
tuppence95 wrote...
And btw, I think KoP already knows this, but Costin and Persephone, I have no hard feelings about your ingame choices differing from mine. I enjoy a good debate, and I'm not going to take anything personally. :-)
tuppence95 wrote...
And btw, I think KoP already knows this, but Costin and Persephone, I have no hard feelings about your ingame choices differing from mine. I enjoy a good debate, and I'm not going to take anything personally. :-)
Lady Jess wrote...
to Add to KoP's points about the order, later you find this, tucked in a book in your Vigil's Keep throne room...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Lady Jess wrote...
to Add to KoP's points about the order, later you find this, tucked in a book in your Vigil's Keep throne room...
Yes, it's clear the Wardens are not as politically neutral as they like us to believe.
Again, I am refering to Ostagar. If you believe Log's good intentions, he retreated because he did not have the manpower at Ost to defeat th DS. The extra GWs would have come in very handy there. It was Logs decision not to let them in, then it was HIS decision to leave when he was out numbered. Where is the logic in blaming ANY of the GWs, let alone PC & Al, for any of what happened?Persephone wrote...
rak72 wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
rak72 wrote...
I'm talking about Ostagar, Log drew up the plans, the GW's were all fighting where they were suppose to be. How does Log get off saying that the GW's were in some conspiracy there. What did they do in Ostagar that justified Log hunting Al & PC down like dogs for 2 yrs?
Grey Wardens amassing at the borders with 4 legions of chevaliers is one reason.
And they were obviously needed since Log quit the field sincee didn't have the manpower himself to defeat the DS. Just would have been nice if he told everyone else that he wasn't going to be sticking around.
Were they? I surely never used them. And the decision to retreat was not made in advance. (As confirmed by David Gaider)
Persephone wrote...
KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Lady Jess wrote...
to Add to KoP's points about the order, later you find this, tucked in a book in your Vigil's Keep throne room...
Yes, it's clear the Wardens are not as politically neutral as they like us to believe.
Yep. Soldier's Peak illustrated that rather nicely. I love taking Loghain along for this. His comment to Leliana about Maric and his compliment to my Warden once the Keep is secure are awesome.
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