39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Jon Jern_]

Hey guys is this another Loghain argument? I want in.

Anyways Mass Effect 2 is okay, mostly it has been "COVER SHOOT COVER SHOOT OH AND MORAL CHOICES". I'll still play it and enjoy it though. I guess I should've looked onto it more.

[Bruddajakka]

You know the one thing that always gets me during the scene where you decide to spare Loghain is how damn much Alistair acts like a petulant four year old having a temper tantrum even if you've hardened him. His behavior is actually the whole reason I decide to spare Loghain, and put Anora on the throne.

[Jon Jern_]

Bruddajakka wrote...

You know the one thing that always gets me during the scene where you decide to spare Loghain is how damn much Alistair acts like a petulant four year old having a temper tantrum even if you've hardened him. His behavior is actually the whole reason I decide to spare Loghain, and put Anora on the throne.

Yes, you are totally the first person ever to mention Alistair's distaste for Loghain.

[Persephone]

Jon Jern wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

You know the one thing that always gets me during the scene where you decide to spare Loghain is how damn much Alistair acts like a petulant four year old having a temper tantrum even if you've hardened him. His behavior is actually the whole reason I decide to spare Loghain, and put Anora on the throne.

Yes, you are totally the first person ever to mention Alistair's distaste for Loghain.

Let's not ruin the friendly atmosphere of this discussion, please.

[Tigress M]

inclemency wrote...

Omg, tuppence, I'm on Nightmare with Difficulty on 3, ExtraDifficulty on 2. I've done all the treaties, now it's time for Redcliffe...I'm so not looking forward to that battle

You're way better than me!  I'm only up to Nightmare, Diff 1, no extra... I'm not THAT good by a long shot.  

[Bruddajakka]

Jon Jern wrote...

Yes, you are totally the first person ever to mention Alistair's distaste for Loghain.

I get that he dislike Loghain but I can't stand how he acts during that particular scene. 

Edit: And to clarify I like Alistair most of the time. He's very sweet, and charming with a pretty good sense of humor, and he does end up making a good King when you do put him on the throne. It's just that I find how he acts there really hard to take.

Modifié par Bruddajakka, 31 octobre 2010 - 07:00 .

[Jon Jern_]

Sorry I was trying to be snarky. Not so good at that I suppose.

Anyways I need to spare Loghain some time soon. It's just that when I'm playing through a roleplay perspective, I always try to find ways for my character to take revenge on Loghain. Easy to find loopholes with a Human Noble and a City Elf, not so easy with Dalish and Dwarf origins.

[inclemency]

Tigress M wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Omg, tuppence, I'm on Nightmare with Difficulty on 3, ExtraDifficulty on 2. I've done all the treaties, now it's time for Redcliffe...I'm so not looking forward to that battle

You're way better than me!  I'm only up to Nightmare, Diff 1, no extra... I'm not THAT good by a long shot.  

I had a nightmare of a battle on the bridge in the Deep Roads, but got through everything eventually.  I am, however, debating whether to lower the difficulty for the Redcliffe battle, but then I talk myself out of it, then flip-flop again.  The result being I've not fired up the game yet today!

Here's another screen of that battle...at least a dozen darkspawn mages of every sort, with multiple Inferno and earthquake spells, and Maker knows what else...

[KnightofPhoenix]

tuppence95 wrote...

And btw, I think KoP already knows this, but Costin and Persephone, I have no hard feelings about your ingame choices differing from mine. I enjoy a good debate, and I'm not going to take anything personally. :-)

Yes, I do know this and I appreciate it
It's been fun, writing the post for an hour or so. You guys made it feel it was worth it. 

[Lady Jess]

Jon Jern wrote...

Bruddajakka wrote...

You know the one thing that always gets me during the scene where you decide to spare Loghain is how damn much Alistair acts like a petulant four year old having a temper tantrum even if you've hardened him. His behavior is actually the whole reason I decide to spare Loghain, and put Anora on the throne.

Yes, you are totally the first person ever to mention Alistair's distaste for Loghain.

This isn't an argument it's a discussion. A very civil discussion, as usual in this thread. If you can't do anything but snark at the participants, please stay out of it completely.

[Jon Jern_]

Sorry.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's been fun, writing the post for an hour or so. You guys made it feel it was worth it.

Do I detect sarcasm?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

It's been fun, writing the post for an hour or so. You guys made it feel it was worth it.

Do I detect sarcasm?

Naa, it was genuine.

[CalJones]

The first time I saw Alistair's outburst at the Landsmeet I was quite horrified, actually. Up until that point I really liked him as a character (not so much as a romance - I like him better as a friend), and it took a long while before I was able to like him again.

But, the outburst is understandable if you consider that he is a very young man - one suffering from survivor's guilt and abandonment issues. I get the sense that his hatred of Loghain is actually him projecting. He has been rejected by his father, then by Arl Eamon, so his self worth at that point isn't high. Then he is finally accepted by Duncan and feels a dispoportionate sense of gratitude towards him due to his earlier rejections (the subsequent rejection by Goldanna doesn't help much, either). When Duncan is killed, he lashes out at the man he perceives to be responsible, but actually, he also hates himself a little bit for living while Duncan died. This is born out by his lack of confidence to lead and that fact that all his humour is self-deprecating. He appears funny and charming, but deep down he is quite damaged.

Then you get to Landsmeet, and the Warden spares Loghain. Suddenly, Alistair is being rejected again, or at least, that is how it feels to him. He goes nuclear.

It's not a nice thing to witness but I understand it. (It doesn't change my decision to spare Loghain, mind you...but then I'm more of a Loghain fan so no surprise there).

[Jon Jern_]

I don't see how Loghain is a likable character to an average player who just started Dragon Age, and didn't read any of the books or looked at any of the lore of the game. The only time you ever see the "good" side of him, minus accepting his fate if you choose to execute him, is if you spare him. Plus, most of the characters like Eamon and Alistair are pushing you to execute Loghain, so to them it would seem the best choice.

Unless something happened at the landsmeet that I forgot about. I know there was something. It involved Riordan. Oh well.

Modifié par Jon Jern , 31 octobre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Yankee23]

@CalJones...I think that is an excellent explaination of Alistair's state of mind. It's because of these reasons that I in no way see his reaction as selfish.

[nos_astra]

@CalJones

Excellent summary of Alistair's issues.

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't see how Loghain is a likable character to an average player who just started Dragon Age, and didn't read any of the books or looked at any of the lore of the game.

There isn't much we see of Loghain, but personally I liked him talking to Eamon and refusing to accept the bull**** the Arl of Redcliff was selling, and the whole idea of Warden political neutrality was so laughable that I discarded it the moment I heard of it.

Then there was Eamon himself talking with respect about him and the conversation I had with Anora, so yes I did come to respect Loghain before the Landsmeet, and when surrendered and compared me to Maric I was a bit taken aback. It had figured Maric had been a very close friend of Loghain's ( a lot in the game mentions it ).

Personally I just didn't care that much about his so called crimes. I didn't know who Howe was or what he did, nor did I care that much about slavery given that he was using it to finance his war ( which I would have done as well ). The fact he outlawed the Grey Wardens and sent Assassins after me didn't matter that much. Revenge is a feeling I personally find completely useless.

My biggest reason for sparing him ( among many other political ones ) was that I believe in mercy and respecting an opponent in War. When Napoleon lost he wasn't murdered, he was exiled and only so that he wouldn't raise another Empire ( which he would have done without a shred of doubt ).

The whole idea of Orlais rushing to aid Fereldan was also so laughable that It sealed my belief about the so called neutrality of the Wardens ( since the Wardens where in charge of that army apparently ). 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 31 octobre 2010 - 08:02 .

[LadyDamodred]

Yeah, Alistair is broken in some ways, I don't think anyone here refutes that. Maybe not as badly as some other characters, but broken nonetheless.

[Lady Jess]

Dum Dum de Dummmm





The most powerful siblings in Ferelden...



The Happy Groom...





The Happy Bride...





"say man and WIFE already!..."





Finally...

[rak72]

Realy, slavery to finance a war is acceptable?

[Costin_Razvan]

rak72 wrote...

Realy, slavery to finance a war is acceptable?

Have you ever opened a history book in your entire life?

[Yankee23]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Realy, slavery to finance a war is acceptable?

Have you ever opened a history book in your entire life?

That shouldn't make it acceptable.

[nos_astra]

rak72 wrote...
Realy, slavery to finance a war is acceptable?

Humans, no.
Elves, maybe.

It's a fantasy world and Fereldan people abhor slavery, at least they believe they are above slavery. They are, however, pretty racist, so selling elves to finance a war would be a minor issue to most of them.

[Costin_Razvan]

It has been perfectly acceptable for most of our known history, and was one of the many reasons why Stalin's armies crushed the Germans in WW2.

In Thedas slavery is quite common. The Imperium does it, Antiva does it and Orlais did it until Celene came along.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 31 octobre 2010 - 08:09 .