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The Alistair Gush Thread: *Squee*


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#15701
Lady Jess

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Persephone wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...

Not you, honey bunch. Unless you want me to talk to you.


Er........Interesting choice of words, that. :huh:

Anyway. Back to Loghain. Or Alistair. Or maybe both? :innocent:


ROFL:O

Wedding!
*Snip*


*Swoons* Gorgeous Warden!

And what can I say? I adore them both! :wub: How does the song go? "One to make her happy, one to make her cry. One to give her good....er...cheese?" :innocent::happy::lol:


Thanks, she's had a very good day all things considered.  The wedding mod is gorgeous, and I know it's Alistair but I think my favorite moment was this moment between brother and sister. There she is, about to be Queen of Ferelden, and Teyrn of Gwaren, and he's the Teyrn of Highever, after everything they've been through, to be standing here, at this moment...a happy moment, is just awesome.
Image IPB

#15702
Jon Jern_

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Persephone wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

What Loghain and Ferelden suffered at the hands of the Orlesians is all the more reason for him not to toss away the things which make Ferelden better than Orlais - the rights of it's citizens.


Actually this is a pretty good moral argument.  What kind of Ferelden is Loghain fighting for if he turns a blind eye to slavery, rape and kidnapping? By so doing he is no better than the orleisians he so despises...


Not denying the slavery but where is he turning a blind eye on rape and kidnapping?:blink:


Pemitting Howe to lead a purge of the Alienage most likely caused rape and kidnapping.

Modifié par Jon Jern , 31 octobre 2010 - 09:33 .


#15703
Persephone

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Jon Jern wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

What Loghain and Ferelden suffered at the hands of the Orlesians is all the more reason for him not to toss away the things which make Ferelden better than Orlais - the rights of it's citizens.


Actually this is a pretty good moral argument.  What kind of Ferelden is Loghain fighting for if he turns a blind eye to slavery, rape and kidnapping? By so doing he is no better than the orleisians he so despises...


Not denying the slavery but where is he turning a blind eye on rape and kidnapping?:blink:


Pemitting Howe to lead a purge of the Alienage most likely caused rape and kidnapping.


I doubt Howe needed his permission, as Vaughn clearly did not ask first either. But maybe I'm wrong.

#15704
KnightofPhoenix

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Jon Jern wrote...
Pemitting Howe to lead a purge of the Alienage most likely caused rape and kidnapping.


" The narrow streets of the Lower Docks have an almost labyrinthine quality, and the walled-off elven Alienage is so overpopulated that several purges have been required to keep order in the last decade alone."

–– From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar, by Brother Genitivi

Maric was ruling in that last decade.
I guess he did the same as well.

#15705
Jon Jern_

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I don't think Vaughn led a purge, he was just being a drunken idiot, and decided to ruin a wedding.

#15706
Jon Jern_

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...
Pemitting Howe to lead a purge of the Alienage most likely caused rape and kidnapping.


" The narrow streets of the Lower Docks have an almost labyrinthine quality, and the walled-off elven Alienage is so overpopulated that several purges have been required to keep order in the last decade alone."

–– From In Pursuit of Knowledge: The Travels of a Chantry Scholar, by Brother Genitivi

Maric was ruling in that last decade.
I guess he did the same as well.


He probably did.

#15707
Lady Jess

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess, can I just say that Jess rage is very endearing? :P


Why thank you *curtsies*

#15708
LadyDamodred

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Ejolsin.
Very well put and that's why I sympathize with Alistair. I strongly disagree with him and I believe what he dide was immature and irrational, but understandable. It's not enough to change my mind, but for what its worth, I sympathize.

LadyDamodred wrote...

Yeah, Alistair is broken in some ways, I don't think anyone here refutes that. Maybe not as badly as some other characters, but broken nonetheless.


Not to try to generate sympathy or change anyone's mind, but I believe if there is one character who suffered the most as a child, it would be Loghain.

I do believe and can't even come close to imagining it, that the most horrifying thing one can do to a child is to force him to watch his mother get raped and killed while he is helpless and powerless to do anything about it.

A big reason why I admire Loghain is that he was not really broken by this and he never used it or told us about it, not even hinted at it, to earn sympathy. Others would have been shattered utterly by this. 


Loghain is also broken.  Many, many people in this game are broken.  Loghain is broken in different fundamental ways than Alistair is.

#15709
KnightofPhoenix

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LadyDamodred wrote...
Loghain is also broken.  Many, many people in this game are broken.  Loghain is broken in different fundamental ways than Alistair is.


My interpretation of the character is that he isn't broken, but scarred deeply, which isn't quite the same to me. But I guess it's semantics?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 octobre 2010 - 09:41 .


#15710
sabreene

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Sandtigress wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

What Loghain and Ferelden suffered at the hands of the Orlesians is all the more reason for him not to toss away the things which make Ferelden better than Orlais - the rights of it's citizens.


Actually this is a pretty good moral argument.  What kind of Ferelden is Loghain fighting for if he turns a blind eye to slavery, rape and kidnapping? By so doing he is no better than the orleisians he so despises...


To me, Loghain's (and Anora's as well, in her own way) major problem is that he believes that only he knows what's best for Ferelden.  Thus he can justify to himself abandoning the king, selling elves into slavery, allowing Howe to do some very sleazy things, blame the Wardens for everything, etc.  He did it because he had to to save Ferelden - it's a very noble idea gone very wrong because of his paranoia and inability to trust anyone else with the job.

Anora seems to have inherited this from her father, minus the Orlesian paranoia, of course.  That's the major reason why most of my Wardens pick Alistair for king - he doesn't believe the world revolves around him and is willing to ask for help in ruling.  That might argue that Anora and Alistair are an excellent pair to lead the country - certainly Ferelden prospers for it, but I just really can't stand Anora and feel bad making Alistair marry her.  :P


This. That's the reason I choose Alistair over Anora.

In regards to sparing Logahin--

I only just finished TST (and still haven't read the Calling beyond the 1st chapter or two) so nearly all my in-game choices have been without the knowledge of what occurred in them.

My first couple games I didn't even hear Alistair's little fit. I was putting Alistair on the throne and executing Loghain was very much a political decision. I didn't want to leave Loghain alive to divide the country, or challenge Alistair's throne. Which, if Alistair could do as a grey warden, I figured Loghain could too. I didn't trust Loghain enough (by game alone - not reading the forums or what David Gaider had said about the character) --- I thought if he decided we were still a threat to Ferelden he would try to take us out.

It would be a harder choice now if I was playing a politically savvy impartial type character, which for me, usually tend to be nobles (either dwarf or human). My CE's and DC's run on hot emotion, and mages--unpredictable.

If I ever played a human noble marrying Anora I might well spare him, as that makes more sense to me.

#15711
Persephone

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To be completely honest, I nearly always put Anora on the throne. She has been well trained in everything necessary to be a ruler. She has ruled the country well for years. She is smart, well educated, a great politician, excellent at representation.......she reminds me of a young Elizabeth I. A queen through and through. Alistair maybe a nicer person but IMO he is Eamon by proxy. Not a reason to make him king. Just my opinion, I know. ;)

#15712
Lady Jess

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Back to my Brosca! yay! No Alistair romance (though he is stuck on "something on your mind" which is rather creepy!) and this happens...



Image IPB



Ouch Ouch...OUCH!!!

#15713
LadyDamodred

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
Loghain is also broken.  Many, many people in this game are broken.  Loghain is broken in different fundamental ways than Alistair is.


My interpretation of the character is that he isn't broken, but scarred deeply, which isn't quite the same to me. But I guess it's semantics?


Oh, I know what you mean.  Um...how to phrase?  I don't mean broken as in they are broken men.  That have a different connotation all together.  I guess scarred is a good word.  There are aspects of themslves that are broken, that keep them from being healthy functional people unless those issues are fixed.  That's how I meant broken.

#15714
Reaverwind

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sabreene wrote...

My first couple games I didn't even hear Alistair's little fit. I was putting Alistair on the throne and executing Loghain was very much a political decision. I didn't want to leave Loghain alive to divide the country, or challenge Alistair's throne. Which, if Alistair could do as a grey warden, I figured Loghain could too. I didn't trust Loghain enough (by game alone - not reading the forums or what David Gaider had said about the character) --- I thought if he decided we were still a threat to Ferelden he would try to take us out.



Yup - that's why Loghain is executed in my games - he poses a political threat. That being said, I really hate how the Landsmeet is done, and simply have Alistair fight the duel to avoid some of the issues.

#15715
Persephone

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Reaverwind wrote...

sabreene wrote...

My first couple games I didn't even hear Alistair's little fit. I was putting Alistair on the throne and executing Loghain was very much a political decision. I didn't want to leave Loghain alive to divide the country, or challenge Alistair's throne. Which, if Alistair could do as a grey warden, I figured Loghain could too. I didn't trust Loghain enough (by game alone - not reading the forums or what David Gaider had said about the character) --- I thought if he decided we were still a threat to Ferelden he would try to take us out.



Yup - that's why Loghain is executed in my games - he poses a political threat. That being said, I really hate how the Landsmeet is done, and simply have Alistair fight the duel to avoid some of the issues.


Understandable. This makes sense IMO. Even if I doubt that Loghain has anything to gain by opposing you once he is a Warden.

Modifié par Persephone, 31 octobre 2010 - 09:53 .


#15716
KnightofPhoenix

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LadyDamodred wrote...
Oh, I know what you mean.  Um...how to phrase?  I don't mean broken as in they are broken men.  That have a different connotation all together.  I guess scarred is a good word.  There are aspects of themslves that are broken, that keep them from being healthy functional people unless those issues are fixed.  That's how I meant broken.


Yea, I guess we are in agreement again ^_^


And yes definitely there are a lot of practical considerations in executing Loghain that I can sympathize with. My 2nd favorite character, Dain Aeducan whom I really enjoyed playing as, executed Loghain for pragmatic and sensible reasons. And I didn't regret it, but the scene was still moving to me.

Heck, I even argued why stabbing Morrigan in Witch Hunt can have rational and pragmatic reasons behind them, which I can respect. So yea....hardest argument in my life :crying:

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 31 octobre 2010 - 10:02 .


#15717
Jon Jern_

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I planned my Warden to marry Alistair, so I figured that letting him fight Loghain in the duel would be the way to that route. As soon it was over he executed Loghain and Eamon decided that Alistair should take the throne by himself. I wasn't amused.

Modifié par Jon Jern , 31 octobre 2010 - 09:59 .


#15718
Persephone

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Jon Jern wrote...

I planned my Warden to marry Alistair, so I figured that letting him fight Loghain in the duel would be the way to that route. As soon it was over he executed Loghain and decided to take the throne by himself. I wasn't amused.

Ah, you hardened him before? I think if you do that, you won't be asked to choose.

#15719
Jon Jern_

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Yes. I thought Alistair would say something like "If I have to rule, I won't rule alone" or something equally as cheesy.

#15720
Briiel

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Briiel wrote...
Agreed! I ask this question then to Costin and KoP. You will execute Alistair for desertion but not Lohgain ??


I delt with that in my humongus post.


I appologize :). I had to go back a few pages to catch up . :)

Ok here is my view on this . My family comes from a long line of military. My sister is 7th generation in the armed forces. I grew up for 20 yrs along side military obligations. As a military dependant I knew where I stood in the bigger scheme of things.I also know that the military goes by a certain creed. "Leave No Man BEHIND"
To me that is exactly what Lohgain did.He Left his fellow man at arms to die. General or not.

Because this had me into think mode I contacted a friend of my family's who is a General for the United States Air Force. I explained to him the discussion going on. He said while in some points he can see what Lohgain did as tactical. Other things he did would have had him removed from post because he is not in his right mind because he is letting  past views dictate his command. Therefore jeopordizing his command.

I hope I stated this correctly. :)

#15721
CalJones

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I still can't get my head around that one. I watched the stabbing scene on YouTube and couldn't understand why someone would do that. But this is an Alistair thread, not a Morrigan thread.

For the record, I always make Anora queen. Sometimes she is married to Alistair, sometimes to my MCousland, sometimes on her own. She's got experience and a level head, both of which are needed at such a difficult time. Plus, I can't stand Eamon and there's no way I'd let Alistair rule alone with Eamon pulling the strings. If I'm not playing MCousland I'll quite often make my character chancellor simply to get Eamon out of the way. I hate that SOB.

#15722
sabreene

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Lady Jess wrote...

Back to my Brosca! yay! No Alistair romance (though he is stuck on "something on your mind" which is rather creepy!) and this happens...

*snip*

Ouch Ouch...OUCH!!!


lol, Jess! It looks like they're tumbling down the side of a mountain.

#15723
Jon Jern_

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This is alot of Arl Eamon hate. Did I oversee his dialogue or something? Because I like him.

#15724
Lady Jess

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Persephone wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...

I planned my Warden to marry Alistair, so I figured that letting him fight Loghain in the duel would be the way to that route. As soon it was over he executed Loghain and decided to take the throne by himself. I wasn't amused.

Ah, you hardened him before? I think if you do that, you won't be asked to choose.


You actually should get the choice as a Human Noble, but no other Origin.

#15725
Persephone

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Lady Jess wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...

I planned my Warden to marry Alistair, so I figured that letting him fight Loghain in the duel would be the way to that route. As soon it was over he executed Loghain and decided to take the throne by himself. I wasn't amused.

Ah, you hardened him before? I think if you do that, you won't be asked to choose.


You actually should get the choice as a Human Noble, but no other Origin.


Ah. I haven't done it in a while. Can you tell?:whistle: