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[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...
 You see them as weaknesses that are hard to forgive. 

I do see it as a weakness, but I don't think they are hard to forgive. Mostly because it doesn't affect me personally, for me to forgive him for it or not.
Except maybe at the Landsmeet, but I didn't base my decision on me not forgiving his weaknesses. It was more practical than that.
I do see them as hard to ignore however. And I see them as traits that are not fit for great leadership.  

But yea indeed, that's the beauty of the game.

Unfortunately for you, KoP, David Gaider and the game writers disagree and have written both Maric and Alistair as successful kings whereas according to your philosophy, both should have crashed and burned.  Sorry buddy. 


Urgh, ToP...

Modifié par Addai67, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Briiel]

I like the story lines !!

[Brockololly]

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Esbatty wrote...

I just gotta say its not fair all the topless alistair screenies and fanart and yet I can't do the same, or the inverse, for the Morrigan thread. Thats right, Bottomless.

Once upon a time I tried to turn that into a gush thread and they were having none of it.  They wanted to be all intellectual and stuff.

For the record, I think I contributed to your efforts (posting some nekkid Loghain fan art). I'm not good at intellectual debates so a gush thread would've been better for me. 

Oh, I meant the Morrigan thread actually.  But I guess I spread fangirliness wherever I go.    Ok, probably not the Leliana thread.

Oops, I wasn't reading properly (missed Esbatty's post, guess I need some sleep) and I was remembering that time when you requested someone to post a naked Loghain and then made a comment about how "Loghain squee" was interesting or something. 

So you tried to turn the Morrigan one into a gush thread too? Sadly they don't accept that apparently. It's all about quality in there and epic posts. No room for regular gushing. Bah. <_<

BAH! There is always room for regular pic spam and gushing in the Morrigan thread! Don't let the multipage long massive posts intimidate!

[sylvanaerie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, I love Morrigan precisely because she is independent and would scoff at the idea of me teaching her actively. She of course has flaws of her own and yes, I do believe that her experience with the Warden does teach her something. But it's certainly not with the Warden hugging her and kissing her forehead and then teach her how a woman is supposed to be
It's rather something she learns on her own, I think.

hehe and the fact that 'love makes emotional pretzels of us all' has no bearing on this assessment?
I love Morrigan she's a hoot to have in your party (as I, to my joy, rediscovered my last playthrough) but she doesn't learn that much if she is romanced.  She is still focused on what she wants, PC's feelings be damned.  Or would you care to explain if she did learn anything why she is just as willing to bed Alistair (or Loghain) if your "in love PC" isn't willing to give her the OGB?  I blame Bioware, it seems the PC in love gets the same damn dialogues as a PC in friendship. 
Dude, all she wanted was your stuff for her baby ambitions.  Love wasn't in the equation.
However Morrigan as a friend, learns a TON and I get the feeling she actually regrets asking you to convince Alistair to do the DR with her, esp if you romanced him.  Doesn't stop her from wanting it, asking for it (and using emotional blackmail to get you to do it) and if refused leaving in a hissy fit...but that's beside the point. 
Some PC's I think are better written as friends than lovers.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Unfortunately for you, KoP, David Gaider and the game writers disagree and have written both Maric and Alistair as successful kings whereas according to your philosophy, both should have crashed and burned.  Sorry buddy. 

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said both should have crashed and burned and I said before, both are decent rulers. But just that, decent. I don't think either of them qualifies as a great leader and ruler. 
Furthermore, this depends heavily on what country they are in. Put Alistair in Orlais or Orzammar for instance, and he would amount to nothing at all.

And do they really disagree with me? They made Harrowmont a complete pile of fail, while Bhelen was the great king.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:25 .

[yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

Alistair fans, i face you with a difficult question.



Is Alistair really a virgin?



He wouldn't be the first guy to lie about being a virgin to get in a girls pants. He impressed Isabela, he was pretty much a chick magnet, both Leliana and Morrigan were secretly eyeballing him, and he knew what to say to a fem Warden.



If he really is a virgin then its proof heros always get the girls.

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Unfortunately for you, KoP, David Gaider and the game writers disagree and have written both Maric and Alistair as successful kings whereas according to your philosophy, both should have crashed and burned.  Sorry buddy. 

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said both should have crashed and burned and I said before, both are decent rulers. But just that, decent. I don't think either of them qualifies as a great leader and ruler. 
Furthermore, this depends heavily on what country they are in. Put Alistair in Orlais or Orzammar for instance, and he would amount to nothing at all.

And do they really disagree with me? They made Harrowmont a complete pile of fail, while Bhelen was the great king.

I meta game the crap out of that part on my non dwarves. GOD I HATE Orzammar unless I'm playing one. I swear Kasha marched in there, found Vartag and just said "we both know where this is going, STFU and give me the quest"

[sylvanaerie]

Lady Jess wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Unfortunately for you, KoP, David Gaider and the game writers disagree and have written both Maric and Alistair as successful kings whereas according to your philosophy, both should have crashed and burned.  Sorry buddy. 

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said both should have crashed and burned and I said before, both are decent rulers. But just that, decent. I don't think either of them qualifies as a great leader and ruler. 
Furthermore, this depends heavily on what country they are in. Put Alistair in Orlais or Orzammar for instance, and he would amount to nothing at all.

And do they really disagree with me? They made Harrowmont a complete pile of fail, while Bhelen was the great king.

I meta game the crap out of that part on my non dwarves. GOD I HATE Orzammar unless I'm playing one. I swear Kasha marched in there, found Vartag and just said "we both know where this is going, STFU and give me the quest"

I usually put whoever pissed me off the least on the throne (though I usually do Harrowmont's quests, the provings is the only fun part of Orzammar for me)

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...
I love Morrigan she's a hoot to have in your party (as I, to my joy, rediscovered my last playthrough) but she doesn't learn that much if she is romanced.

This is the first time she fell in love with someone, so yes she learns that.
Also when she leaves, this is the first time she experienced loss.

sylvanaerie wrote...
 She is still focused on what she wants, PC's feelings be damned.  Or would you care to explain if she did learn anything why she is just as willing to bed Alistair (or Loghain) if your "in love PC" isn't willing to give her the OGB?  I blame Bioware, it seems the PC in love gets the same damn dialogues as a PC in friendship. 

She is focued on what she wants, but she says in Origins and WH and I believe her that she wants to do the DR also to save the PC's life. So no.
And she says she would have rather done it with the PC than the other Warden.

The fact that she wants something (seemingly very important) very much does not mean she doesn't care about the PC. Whatever it is she wants, she deems as more important and why not.

sylvanaerie wrote...
Dude, all she wanted was your stuff for her baby ambitions.  Love wasn't in the equation.

Yes, it was. Not as important, but it was there. Otherwise she would not have felt regret or sadness for leaving.
Nor would she allow us to follow her in WH.

Morrigan doesn't fit the happy fantasy love thing that you experience with Alistair. And you might not like the romance as a result.
But to say there wasn't any love in the equation? Meeh.

[tuppence95]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Eh, I love Morrigan precisely because she is independent and would scoff at the idea of me teaching her actively. She of course has flaws of her own and yes, I do believe that her experience with the Warden does teach her something. But it's certainly not with the Warden hugging her and kissing her forehead and then teach her how a woman is supposed to be
It's rather something she learns on her own, I think.

I don't know David Gaider, but it's apparent that he knows something about women.  Whether or not, he's been successful at using that knowledge in his personal life, I've no idea.  But judging from the size of the Alistair thread compared to other fan threads, there are a number of women who really appreciate a man who can at times be vulnerable, not afraid to show his emotions and willing to learn from his partner.  I personally don't care for men who are cream puffs all the time.  But despite what you may think, the character of Alistair is not.  Men who are tough, manly and independent all the time, aren't always the most appealing.  

[Briiel]

yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrote...

Alistair fans, i face you with a difficult question.

Is Alistair really a virgin?

He wouldn't be the first guy to lie about being a virgin to get in a girls pants. He impressed Isabela, he was pretty much a chick magnet, both Leliana and Morrigan were secretly eyeballing him, and he knew what to say to a fem Warden.

If he really is a virgin then its proof heros always get the girls.

Yes I do believe him to be a virgin . Some guys can be naturally smooth when talking to the ladies. I know a few older gents that are quite charming and they are virgins (saving themselves for the right lady). They can be quite flirty :D. So yes I believe it can be .

[KnightofPhoenix]

tuppence95 wrote...
 Men who are tough, manly and independent all the time, aren't always the most appealing.  

Yes and I am not saying Alistair should be like this.

But for me, he took it a bit too far. But I am a guy and I don't have the same buttons as you obviously

[Maria13]

yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrote...

Alistair fans, i face you with a difficult question.

Is Alistair really a virgin?

He wouldn't be the first guy to lie about being a virgin to get in a girls pants. He impressed Isabela, he was pretty much a chick magnet, both Leliana and Morrigan were secretly eyeballing him, and he knew what to say to a fem Warden.

If he really is a virgin then its proof heros always get the girls.

I'd say he is.

Being a virgin is not something that males tend to boast about, neither does Alistair he justs flags it up when he gets close to the warden because, I think, he doesn't want to disappoint her.

All the stuff you mention happens after he leaves the Templars until then it is not hard to imagine that he led a pretty sheltered and unhappy life in an mostly male environment. 

In any event Morrie loathes him and he loathes her in return, they have major philosophical differences.

Leli and Isabela both know a handsome man when they see one.

BTW Ali is not a hero, just a very confused young man trying to do the right thing in difficult circumstances.

[Brockololly]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Or would you care to explain if she did learn anything why she is just as willing to bed Alistair (or Loghain) if your "in love PC" isn't willing to give her the OGB?  I blame Bioware, it seems the PC in love gets the same damn dialogues as a PC in friendship. 

Yes, its because BioWare nerfed the dialogue in the DR scene- Gaider has said before that there was supposed to be more in that scene if you were romancing Morrigan and as Terra_Ex could point out, a lot of the dialogue in the DR scene that would pertain to a romancing Warden is all over the place, hidden down bizarre dialogue paths.

The dialogue for the romancing Warden in the DR scene is rubbish- there are some differences- but not enough. But that doesn't mean that Morrigan hasn't changed at that point or isn't in love with the Warden, just that she is able to put aside her feelings and do something she feels is of greater significance than her own personal feelings. If you check in the toolset for much of that dialogue, there are numerous notes where  it clearly states how Morrigan is in love with the Warden and the fact that she is leaving is ripping her up inside. But whatever it is she has to do with the Old God Baby is just that important to her. Not to mention the DR being a legitimate way to keep her lover/friend alive and how she states that even if there were a thousand Wardens, she would want to do it with the Warden thats romancing her.

sylvanaerie wrote...
Dude, all she wanted was your stuff for her baby ambitions.  Love wasn't in the equation.

If you're saying that Morrigan was just romancing the Warden to get his genetic material for Old God Baby, thats just not correct. Love absolutely was in the equation, otherwise you wouldn't see her become an emotional trainwreck after the Warden has sex with her the first time before the DR. Its because she realizes she is falling in love with the Warden and doesn't know what to do with those foreign emotions, knowing full well that she'll have to offer up the DR and leave after the battle, even though deeep down she might want to stay with the Warden.

And Witch Hunt just reaffirms the fact that she does indeed love a romancing Warden- she could just as easily have left, but she allows romancing Wardens to follow her through the Eluvian.

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 novembre 2010 - 05:40 .

[tuppence95]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...
 Men who are tough, manly and independent all the time, aren't always the most appealing.  

Yes and I am not saying Alistair should be like this.

But for me, he took it a bit too far. But I am a guy and I don't have the same buttons as you obviously

No, but it never hurts to find out what works with large numbers of women.  *finds enough self-discipline to refrain from making button comments.*  

[KnightofPhoenix]

tuppence95 wrote...
No, but it never hurts to find out what works with large numbers of women.  *finds enough self-discipline to refrain from making button comments.*  

Well if Morrigan is the ideal type for me, being like Alistair is precisely what I should not do

[Maria13]

tuppence95 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...
 Men who are tough, manly and independent all the time, aren't always the most appealing.  

Yes and I am not saying Alistair should be like this.

But for me, he took it a bit too far. But I am a guy and I don't have the same buttons as you obviously

No, but it never hurts to find out what works with large numbers of women.  *finds enough self-discipline to refrain from making button comments.*  

Affection and emotional honesty are usually up there for me.  Oh, and good looks...

[adneate]

For all you malcontents that use my Warden banner I have an important announcement, first of all it gets mad views and is way more popular than I ever thought it would be. On the downside everyone is linking the bloody thing to my account and it's slaughtering my bandwidth on photobucket. At almost 100,000 times as many views as anything else I can't host it from there much longer. So I'm switching it to it's own address on tinypic.



[*IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/2enntjr.jpg[/IMG*]







So I'll be pulling the image by the end of the day, just a heads up if you want to keep using it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...
But that doesn't mean that Morrigan hasn't changed at that point or isn't in love with the Warden, just that she is able to put aside her feelings and do something she feels is of greater significance than her own personal feelings.

Indeed and she says in WH "What I want...is not important now" in a sad tone.
She is doing something beyond her own personal feelings and whatever it is, it sounds pretty darn important.

I do not believe in the idea that love should be the most important thing. And she doesn't either.

[tuppence95]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...
No, but it never hurts to find out what works with large numbers of women.  *finds enough self-discipline to refrain from making button comments.*  

Well if Morrigan is the ideal type for me, being like Alistair is precisely what I should not do

Ha!  Fate can surprise you.  The man that I ended up falling in love with and marrying was so not the type that I always thought was mine.  I always used to have such a weakness dark-haired, brooding, angst-filled, artsy types.  And I ended up falling for a blonde, athletic, goofy guy with a few self-confidence problems.   

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
But that doesn't mean that Morrigan hasn't changed at that point or isn't in love with the Warden, just that she is able to put aside her feelings and do something she feels is of greater significance than her own personal feelings.

Indeed and she says in WH "What I want...is not important now" in a sad tone.
She is doing something beyond her own personal feelings and whatever it is, it sounds pretty darn important.

I do not believe in the idea that love should be the most important thing. And she doesn't either.

Caislyn wanted to HUG HER when she said that.

[yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo]

Maria13 wrote...

yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrote...

Alistair fans, i face you with a difficult question.

Is Alistair really a virgin?

He wouldn't be the first guy to lie about being a virgin to get in a girls pants. He impressed Isabela, he was pretty much a chick magnet, both Leliana and Morrigan were secretly eyeballing him, and he knew what to say to a fem Warden.

If he really is a virgin then its proof heros always get the girls.

I'd say he is.

Being a virgin is not something that males tend to boast about, neither does Alistair he justs flags it up when he gets close to the warden because, I think, he doesn't want to disappoint her.

All the stuff you mention happens after he leaves the Templars until then it is not hard to imagine that he led a pretty sheltered and unhappy life in an mostly male environment. 

In any event Morrie loathes him and he loathes her in return, they have major philosophical differences.

Leli and Isabela both know a handsome man when they see one.

BTW Ali is not a hero, just a very confused young man trying to do the right thing in difficult circumstances.

just saying Alistair is a pimp, if he wasnt a templar he would prolly be like Henry the VIII minus killing his wives.  I bet a hardened Alistair without the fem warden woulld have more mistresses then his father.  lol

[Lady Jess]

Errr his father had three women. Katriel before Rowan, then Queen Rowan, and after she died Fiona. Mistresses weren't exactly his thing. And I believe Alistair was born well after Rowan died.

[Maria13]

yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

yo broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wrote...

Alistair fans, i face you with a difficult question.

Is Alistair really a virgin?

He wouldn't be the first guy to lie about being a virgin to get in a girls pants. He impressed Isabela, he was pretty much a chick magnet, both Leliana and Morrigan were secretly eyeballing him, and he knew what to say to a fem Warden.

If he really is a virgin then its proof heros always get the girls.

I'd say he is.

Being a virgin is not something that males tend to boast about, neither does Alistair he justs flags it up when he gets close to the warden because, I think, he doesn't want to disappoint her.

All the stuff you mention happens after he leaves the Templars until then it is not hard to imagine that he led a pretty sheltered and unhappy life in an mostly male environment. 

In any event Morrie loathes him and he loathes her in return, they have major philosophical differences.

Leli and Isabela both know a handsome man when they see one.

BTW Ali is not a hero, just a very confused young man trying to do the right thing in difficult circumstances.

just saying Alistair is a pimp, if he wasnt a templar he would prolly be like Henry the VIII minus killing his wives.  I bet a hardened Alistair without the fem warden woulld have more mistresses then his father.  lol

Pimp? Would not the more precise term be "babe magnet"?

It's not at all clear that Maric had many mistresses.

But I won't disagree with your  last point.  You know what they say about Chantry boys and late starters...

Modifié par Maria13, 06 novembre 2010 - 06:07 .

[Maria13]

tuppence95 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...
No, but it never hurts to find out what works with large numbers of women.  *finds enough self-discipline to refrain from making button comments.*  

Well if Morrigan is the ideal type for me, being like Alistair is precisely what I should not do

Ha!  Fate can surprise you.  The man that I ended up falling in love with and marrying was so not the type that I always thought was mine.  I always used to have such a weakness dark-haired, brooding, angst-filled, artsy types.  And I ended up falling for a blonde, athletic, goofy guy with a few self-confidence problems.   

Uh... Did his name begin with A?