39010 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Perhaps it can reform.  Perhaps (Whomever) takes over once Bhelen is gone might be able to maintain the reforms and build on them.  Make them for the good of Orzammar.  In that I CAN see hope for the city.  I see it taking several generations though if it does.  The dwarves revere their ancestors and 'the stone' for good reason, as many of their traditions (and personalities) seem to be as if they were carved in stone.
It is said "an ill wind blows no good" and not even Bhelen (unlike Harrowmont) is that. 

Yea definitely, I personally favor slow but steady reforms anyways. Volatile reforms (often associated with revolutionary beliefs) usually do not bring the change needed and are hard to maintain.

That's what I like about Bhelen. He didn't abolish the caste system, but loosened it. He didn't redistribute wealth to the casteless and gave them rights all of a sudden, but gave them an opportunity to earn them. He didn't base his legitimacy on populism, but on House Aeducan. He didn't massacre the nobility, but abolished the assembly (Which only represents a few noble houses, and only after they tried to assassinate him several times). For all we know, Bhelen can re-institute the assembly after he passed the reforms and laws he needed (the Assembly was afterall brought back when it was first disolved). He isn't a revolutionary. He is a reformer. 

And even in the future, if Bhelen's regime does collapse (and no regime stays forever), whatever comes next will have a hard time reversing all this and they would be better served to expand on Bhelen's reforms. 

 

[Melca36]

Thread needed some Alistair and yes my male character is UGLY. 


Has anyone using Slinks ravage gotten this sort of glitch?

[sylvanaerie]

Thanks KoP that was a  pretty fun debate! 
and now a pic to be On Topic: Alistair as a 2H warrior on my last playthrough since Val was a S&S.  Finishing moves are HOT!

[KnightofPhoenix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Thanks KoP that was a  pretty fun debate!

And thank you for bearing with me and my off-topicness

So for that, I'll post a pic



By http://louvette.deviantart.com/

[Aeowyn]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I don't have a middle name.

I don't have a middle name either.
But I do have a very long full name, with father's name, the name of a one or two prominent ancestors, the name of my clan and finally the name of the tribe we originate from.

classical Arabic names are awesome, too bad we can't use them now.

Oh dear God yes. My Uncle had me memorize that whole string of names when I was 10. I remeber being annoyed because it was only men and I thought "Hey why do I have Mohammed in my name?" They also insisted on using my arabic first name, Rima, which I later found out means little ghasell. Thanks Dad...

[sylvanaerie]

I love Louvette's work. I can't get over how much like David Boreanaz (his?her?) Alistair looks. Since the last TV show I really really enjoyed watching so much I didn't like missing a single episode was Buffy the Vampire Slayer, I'm a shoe in for loving half naked Al played by DB

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aeowyn wrote...
Oh dear God yes. My Uncle had me memorize that whole string of names when I was 10. I remeber being annoyed because it was only men and I thought "Hey why do I have Mohammed in my name?" They also insisted on using my arabic first name, Rima, which I later found out means little ghasell. Thanks Dad...

Wow you memorized it? lol
I wish I could, but my line extends all the way back to Ali Ibn Abi Talib (ra) and Fatima (ra) and the Hashemites and that's huge! lol 

And Rima is a nice name! But I didn't know what it meant

[Maria13]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...
Oh dear God yes. My Uncle had me memorize that whole string of names when I was 10. I remeber being annoyed because it was only men and I thought "Hey why do I have Mohammed in my name?" They also insisted on using my arabic first name, Rima, which I later found out means little ghasell. Thanks Dad...

Wow you memorized it? lol
I wish I could, but my line extends all the way back to Ali Ibn Abi Talib (ra) and Fatima (ra) and the Hashemites and that's huge! lol 

And Rima is a nice name! But I didn't know what it meant

The Prophet's daughter?

"Rima" means rhyme or poem in Spanish so you could say it's that if you prefer.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Maria13
Yes

[inclemency]

Posting crewcut Ali in that hat again, because it made me laugh

[LadyDamodred]

I need to stop falling behind in this thread. -.-



In other news, Carys has succeeded in getting Alistair to +34 Warm! Woot!

[Addai]

Gilsa wrote...

Hi hi. This thread is making me miss Alistair -- more specifically, the whole epic ride that comes with a great romance! I've just loaded up my Netflix queue with romance movies. Glad to see most of the folks are still around -- didn't know if Witch Hunt being the last DLC along with the book closing on Alistair/Warden would put a damper on this thread.

Gilsa!!!

DA has made me do that before, too. 

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Well but it's completely your assumption that Alistair = Harrowmont and Anora = Bhelen.  I see it as the other way around. 

And where did I say that Alistair = Harrowmont?
I said what I said, to show that Bioware writers do not disagree with my philosophy.

You're implying that it is applicable to what I said about Maric and Alistair being successful kings.  But really the heart of where we will disagree is here...

Addai67 wrote...
Edit:  Also, I think the dissolution of the Assembly is a pretty big pile of fail in Bhelen's corner, especially given that that is what he was planning all along.

And that's not "fail" at all. You may not like it, but it's efficient thus is not a fail. In fact, Bhelen so easily removing a centuries old institution, after they tried to assassinate him, without so much hurting his position, shows how good he was and how useless the Assembly is.

Yes, here we are not going to agree.  The dissolution of a parliamentary body in favor of tyrannical rule is a mark of that rule's failure, not its strength.  And, irony?  LOL  The assassination attempt on Bhelen was de rigeur for Orzammar and certainly nothing he hadn't done.  I'm also quite sure it wasn't every single deshyr trying to assassinate him.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:06 .

[Yankee23]

inclemency wrote...

Posting crewcut Ali in that hat again, because it made me laugh
[snip]

Storm, where did you find that stuff??

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
You're implying that it is applicable to what I said about Maric and Alistair being successful kings.  But really the heart of where we will disagree is here...

No, I didn't. It is applicable in the sense  of why Maric and Alistair are not great kings, imo. I never said they weren't decent kings.

Yes, here we are not going to agree.  The dissolution of a parliamentary body in favor of tyrannical rule is a mark of that rule's failure, not its strength. 

Except the Assembly is not really a parliamentary body, it is an oligarchic council exclusive to a few families and that solely represents the interests of those families.
And yea, we are not going to agree, since your argument is based on principles that you think ought to be applied everywhere and at any time. The success of his rule is apparent, being a "tyrant" is not a failure, no matter how much you hate it. Tyrants can and were succesful in our own history.

And just to preempt: cunning, intelligence and ambition are not principles, they are traits that can be applied on a universal level.

I would not advocate a Bhelen for Ferelden, nor would I advocate an Anora for Orzammar. However, both share similar traits and abilities, in addition to different methods, that make them great rulers in their respective communities.

And, irony?  LOL  The assassination attempt on Bhelen was de rigeur for Orzammar and certainly nothing he hadn't done.  I'm also quite sure it wasn't every single deshyr trying to assassinate him.

Where did I say that what they did was "wrong" or that I was blaming them for it?  
However, their incompetent history and present condition, which I blame them for, is all the justification needed to shut them down.

And your last line would be meaningful if Bhelen killed all Deshyrs. Disolving the Assembly =/= killing them.
Half the Asembly was on his side, he'd find a way to include them in his new order.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:32 .

[Addai]

Bhelen was researching ways how to dissolve the Assembly before he even becomes king. 'Twas all part of the plan.

[inclemency]

Yankee23 wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Posting crewcut Ali in that hat again, because it made me laugh
[snip]

Storm, where did you find that stuff??

I'm playing the new mod:

Dark Times ACT I
http://social.bioware.com/project/2157   or  http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1882

It's been a blast, and it's huge!  Many different areas, quests, etc.  I'm having so much fun with it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

Bhelen was researching ways how to dissolve the Assembly before he even becomes king. 'Twas all part of the plan.

I don't blame him at all, they are part of Orzammar's problem.
At the end however, he waited for them to give him the justification. And it was not one assassination attempt. But several. So regardless of whether he planned it or not, he waited for them to try to kill him several times.

If he was so adamant about it, he would have disolved the assembly after the first assassination attempt.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:26 .

[tuppence95]

inclemency wrote...

Posting crewcut Ali in that hat again, because it made me laugh
*snip

Instead of playing today like I planned, I went to Home Depot instead and bought lumber for a project.  <_<

So I'm not much closer to being able to see Alistair in the funny hat!  I want to see his face in it!  Maybe tomorrow.  Storm, do you think my party could handle it shortly after Lothering?

[inclemency]

tuppence95 wrote...

inclemency wrote...

Posting crewcut Ali in that hat again, because it made me laugh
*snip

Instead of playing today like I planned, I went to Home Depot instead and bought lumber for a project.  <_<

So I'm not much closer to being able to see Alistair in the funny hat!  I want to see his face in it!  Maybe tomorrow.  Storm, do you think my party could handle it shortly after Lothering?

I honestly don't know.   Requirements are that the Broken Circle quest be done already.  I'd like to be playing it then, because there are new talent trees with it, and those would be fun to have during a greater portion of Origins.  I"m Level 23 now, still playing on Nightmare with RavAGE on.  I'm thinking after Lothering might be a little soon, especially story-wise, since the warden doesn't really know anything about the taint yet, really. 

I'll probably wait and do it in my next game around Level 13.

Modifié par inclemency, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:35 .

[tuppence95]

I was actually going to try to do Orzammar right after Lothering this time to get it out of the way and get Oghren, since I haven't had him in my party for Circle or Redcliffe before.  I guess I'll do that, then Circle Tower and then this new mod.  It'll give me something to look forward to as I'm slogging through Orz.

[inclemency]

tuppence95 wrote...

I was actually going to try to do Orzammar right after Lothering this time to get it out of the way and get Oghren, since I haven't had him in my party for Circle or Redcliffe before.  I guess I'll do that, then Circle Tower and then this new mod.  It'll give me something to look forward to as I'm slogging through Orz.

Excellent idea!  I'll do that when I'm into my next game.  I've been doing the Urn quest first these days, but think I'll rearrange my play next time around.


The hat makes Jules have white hair and braids...even Alistair looks a bit shocked

Modifié par inclemency, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:43 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Bhelen was researching ways how to dissolve the Assembly before he even becomes king. 'Twas all part of the plan.

I don't blame him at all, they are part of Orzammar's problem.
At the end however, he waited for them to give him the justification. And it was not one assassination attempt. But several. So regardless of whether he planned it or not, he waited for them to try to kill him several times.

If he was so adamant about it, he would have disolved the assembly after the first assassination attempt.

He needed a pretext, obviously.  Whatever they were, they represented the only check on the king's power, just as the Landsmeet does.  So they had to go.

As I said, I still make Bhelen king.  I just hope his son by Rica becomes king someday and proves a better man than he is.

[tuppence95]

Heading out for a late dinner now.  I'm having a Buffy the Burger Slayer.  

Hopefully I'll be able to spend time with Alistair and Orzammar tonight!  I really want to check out this mod.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
He needed a pretext, obviously.  Whatever they were, they represented the only check on the king's power, just as the Landsmeet does.  So they had to go.

Don't get me wrong, as I said in the "Dealing with the Bannorn" thread, my ideal type of government would be one with checks and balances, absolutely.

However, there comes a time when a community and system can't afford having one and that's what I believe Orzammar is at. Bhelen's reforms are needed and the Assembly cannot be allowed to veto them solely because of their family interests and irrational traditions. So in this situation, I would be perfectly ok with disolving the assembly and removing all formal checks (informal checks still exist in any system. Bhelen can't do whatever he want and he doesn't have the means necessary to be an absolutist or worse totalitarian leader). And Bhelen can always keep an advisory council of some sort. Wouldn't be as powerful as the Assembly, but they can provide a moderating influence should Bhelen go too far on something.

I do hope that either Bhelen or a successor, would gradually bring back the Assembly and make it more representative (to check the power of high nobles).  But it depends, I wouldn't be adamant about it in the short run. In the long run, I would prefer if Orzammar has formal institutionalised checks and balances.

I really admire the Romans for predicting the need for dictators and institutionalising it within the frameworks of a Republican system. Could have been more refined, but I agree with the basic idea. Desperate times...