39010 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

Persephone wrote...

klarabella wrote...
Nice explanation, Persephone. I agree.

OMG, Klarabella, you do realize what that means? :lol::innocent:

I had a warm fuzzy feeling for a moment.

[tuppence95]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I know that Alistair is emotionally broken (like well the rest of the companions), but I just cant agree with him leaving the whole nation to be attacked by the blight.

I would be fine if he left the wardens, because I can see from his POV that the Wardens would be tainted (pun?) by Loghain's presence.
But to leave the entire nation behind, I just cant agree with.
Sad that it comes to that, but since I also agree with freedom of choice, its his to make and I let him go.

What I do find very strange is that every companion in Dragon Age except Dog has so many issues that can break them.

I read somewhere (was it from Gaider?) that if Duncan had lived,  he most likely would have chosen to abandon Ferelden to the Blight.

I'm not saying it wasn't an awful thing for Alistair to do.  Gaider did say that Alistair would deeply regret his actions.  But I think it's worse that he left his fellow warden.  I think someone already said this in a post last night, but I'm deep into cooking now, and didn't have time to go back and check.  

Happy Thanksgiving to those in the U.S.  Yankee, LOVE the picture!  

[LadyDamodred]

*giggles madly at her desktop*

With Alistair abandoning Ferelden, it's something done in anger. We've all done things in anger that we later regret, and this is a big one. But anger, especially when you feel it's justified, can last a long time, even when logic and reason are slamming you in the face and telling you what you're doing is wrong. And then once you start to get over it, it can be hard to deal with, especially if you have no support system.

And that would be Alistair when he gets to the Free Marches. He's done something that violates what he stands for and what he believes himself to be. And he's completely alone. He has nothing. It's not surprising that he turns to drink to drown out and forget what he's done and become.

Edit:  Because I speak english good.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 25 novembre 2010 - 04:41 .

[errant_knight]

LadyDamodred wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
I should learn to step away from fanbases who can be poked to much.

Although the flaming I took for liking Ronan Dex more than Teal'C on a Stargate board is the worst I ever got.

You...what? Dude!

*joins Giggles in his corner*
Though, pretty sure Ronan's unf-worthiness is what does it for me. 

Tigress:  His reaction to sparing Loghain is the same where he's hardened or unhardened.

I can't agree, but as long as y'all leave Daniel alone, I can accept it.

Hardened Alistair does specifically say that you told him to stand up for himself, and here he is, standing. He draws a line in the sand about that.

tuppence95 wrote...
I'm not saying it wasn't an awful thing for Alistair to do.  Gaider did say that Alistair would deeply regret his actions.  But I think it's worse that he left his fellow warden.  

I don't see leaving the warden as an issue, because from his point of view, he has no reason for loyalty and no longer sees the warden as the person he thought the were if he cares about them, and has had his worst fears confirmed if he didn't. Leaving the fight against the blight, though...that's something he'd struggle with for a long time, as well as his feelings of betrayal. He'd feel that he's failed and that he can't trust anyone. Together, that's a recipe for bad.

Modifié par errant_knight, 25 novembre 2010 - 04:50 .

[Giggles_Manically]

That's what I did not like about the later seasons of Stargate.



They all started focusing on Daniel Jackson so much that it was well annoying to some extent.

Although the episodes where he plays off against Adria and the Ori or some of the better ones he does.



Yah I watch Stargate way to much.

Soon I will deliver some On-topic Alistair.



If my net connection dosent die again.

[RagingCyclone]

I think Duncan would have left Ferelden much the same way a general will leave a battlefield. I think he would make a "cut you losses and regroup" kind of decision liking to leave Ferelden to regroup other warden forces to stop the main threat which is the Blight. Alistair, while not a general, may have done the same in time as we are only left to guess at what he would have done had Archi not been killed in Denerim. His plans for where he would go are not clear AT THAT TIME. (caps for emphasis) So he may have had the same thought process as Duncan thinking he would join up with the Orlesian forces massed at the border. (Rhiordan does say they are there while in the dungeon) So assuming he was giving up completely based on that scene and the epilogue slide is arm chair quarterbacking.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:04 .

[errant_knight]

RagingCyclone wrote...

I think Duncan would have left Ferelden much the same way a general will leave a battlefield. I think he would make a "cut you losses and regroup" kind of decision liking to leave Ferelden to regroup other warden forces to stop the main threat which is the Blight. Alistair, while not a general, may have done the same in time as we are only left to guess at what he would have done had Archi not been killed in Denerim. His plans for where he would go are not clear AT THAT TIME. (caps for emphasis) So he may have had the same thought process as Duncan thinking he would join up with the Orlesian forces masses at thee border. (Rhiordan does say they are there while in the dungeon) So assuming he was giving up completely based on that scene and the epilogue slide is arm chair quarterbacking.

Yes, I agree, especially since his words make it clear that he expects Loghain to betray you. He has no reason to believe that you'll end the blight in about a week, and it will all be over by the time he even reaches another country.

[Tigress M]

Yankee23 wrote...

Happy Thanksgiving Alistarians! Enjoy the feast!

Woot!  A new Wallpaper!  I LOVE it!!

[Persephone]

Yankee23 wrote...

Happy Thanksgiving Alistarians! Enjoy the feast!

Now...which to ravish first? The turkey or...the dessert? 

[Sarah1281]

RagingCyclone wrote...



I think Duncan would have left Ferelden much the same way a general will leave a battlefield. I think he would make a "cut you losses and regroup" kind of decision liking to leave Ferelden to regroup other warden forces to stop the main threat which is the Blight. Alistair, while not a general, may have done the same in time as we are only left to guess at what he would have done had Archi not been killed in Denerim. His plans for where he would go are not clear AT THAT TIME. (caps for emphasis) So he may have had the same thought process as Duncan thinking he would join up with the Orlesian forces masses at thee border. (Rhiordan does say they are there while in the dungeon) So assuming he was giving up completely based on that scene and the epilogue slide is arm chair quarterbacking.

I find this highly unlikely. Alistair makes it clear that he is leaving the Wardens. He is also leaving Ferelden. We're really supposed to assume that he will join up with the Orlesian non-Wardens to save Orlais once Ferelden falls? What possible reason could he have for seeking to save Orlais after he's left Ferelden (the country that he made it clear he couldn't possibly even imagine leaving back in the Korcari Wilds) to its fate because one person didn't kill one other person that he desperately hates? Duncan would have left because he didn't think Ferelden could be realistically salvaged. Alistair left because you crossed his moral event horizen.

[Tigress M]

The turkey can wait!

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

I think Duncan would have left Ferelden much the same way a general will leave a battlefield. I think he would make a "cut you losses and regroup" kind of decision liking to leave Ferelden to regroup other warden forces to stop the main threat which is the Blight. Alistair, while not a general, may have done the same in time as we are only left to guess at what he would have done had Archi not been killed in Denerim. His plans for where he would go are not clear AT THAT TIME. (caps for emphasis) So he may have had the same thought process as Duncan thinking he would join up with the Orlesian forces masses at thee border. (Rhiordan does say they are there while in the dungeon) So assuming he was giving up completely based on that scene and the epilogue slide is arm chair quarterbacking.

I find this highly unlikely. Alistair makes it clear that he is leaving the Wardens. He is also leaving Ferelden. We're really supposed to assume that he will join up with the Orlesian non-Wardens to save Orlais once Ferelden falls? What possible reason could he have for seeking to save Orlais after he's left Ferelden (the country that he made it clear he couldn't possibly even imagine leaving back in the Korcari Wilds) to its fate because one person didn't kill one other person that he desperately hates? Duncan would have left because he didn't think Ferelden could be realistically salvaged. Alistair left because you crossed his moral event horizen.

That's assuming that Alistair sees it the same way you do. As far as he's concerned at that moment, he's standing up for his morals and not supporting your corruption of the Wardens. He says he's leaving, not what he plans to do when he gets there. He could well think that you've guaranteed your failure. That, we'll never know, because the blight is over by the time he does, and in many playthroughs, Loghain is an even bigger hero than he was before. There's no evidence as to what he planned at all, only that he wasn't going to stick around to see you dishonor what he believes in.

[mellifera]

I'll take some turkey. I'll pass on everything else >.>

[Lady Jess]

errant_knight wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

I think Duncan would have left Ferelden much the same way a general will leave a battlefield. I think he would make a "cut you losses and regroup" kind of decision liking to leave Ferelden to regroup other warden forces to stop the main threat which is the Blight. Alistair, while not a general, may have done the same in time as we are only left to guess at what he would have done had Archi not been killed in Denerim. His plans for where he would go are not clear AT THAT TIME. (caps for emphasis) So he may have had the same thought process as Duncan thinking he would join up with the Orlesian forces masses at thee border. (Rhiordan does say they are there while in the dungeon) So assuming he was giving up completely based on that scene and the epilogue slide is arm chair quarterbacking.

I find this highly unlikely. Alistair makes it clear that he is leaving the Wardens. He is also leaving Ferelden. We're really supposed to assume that he will join up with the Orlesian non-Wardens to save Orlais once Ferelden falls? What possible reason could he have for seeking to save Orlais after he's left Ferelden (the country that he made it clear he couldn't possibly even imagine leaving back in the Korcari Wilds) to its fate because one person didn't kill one other person that he desperately hates? Duncan would have left because he didn't think Ferelden could be realistically salvaged. Alistair left because you crossed his moral event horizen.

That's assuming that Alistair sees it the same way you do. As far as he's concerned at that moment, he's standing up for his morals and not supporting your corruption of the Wardens. He says he's leaving, not what he plans to do when he gets there. He could well think that you've guaranteed your failure. That, we'll never know, because the blight is over by the time he does, and in many playthroughs, Loghain is an even bigger hero than he was before. There's no evidence as to what he planned at all, only that he wasn't going to stick around to see you dishonor what he believes in.

Doesn't he say he's no longer a warden if he marries Anora? That's strong reason to believe he'd feel the same way if he didn't really.

[Lady Jess]

Have to show off Ximena's awesome work, my prize for the Cousland Contest in Highever Born!



Kasha!

[Sarah1281]

That's assuming that Alistair sees it the same way you do. As far as he's concerned at that moment, he's standing up for his morals and not supporting your corruption of the Wardens. He says he's leaving, not what he plans to do when he gets there. He could well think that you've guaranteed your failure. That, we'll never know, because the blight is over by the time he does, and in many playthroughs, Loghain is an even bigger hero than he was before. There's no evidence as to what he planned at all, only that he wasn't going to stick around to see you dishonor what he believes in.

How am I seeing it that Alistair might not? I didn't even say he was wrong in leaving or pass any judgement on his actions, just saying that he left not because he does not think Ferelden can be saved (which we know is true as he will stay if you do not spare Loghain) but because you do something he can't live with.



We know that Alistair says he is leaving the Wardens. I think that's a pretty big indication that his plans involve NOT joining up with Orlesian Wardens. If he's not even going to end up fighting with Orlais, it makes the most sense to do it as a Warden because otherwise he's really not going to be all that important and it's not like Orlais is really lacking for men like Ferelden is.



I know the epilogue never says "And Alistair had always intended to go off and become a drunkard" and Alistiar never says "So I'm going off to Kirkwall" but there are things that are realistic for him to do and then there's "Alistair wants to go off and save a country he's never expressed any particular interest in while leaving behind the country of his birth and that he's spent his entire life in because you and Loghain are just horrible people that Ferelden deserves to be ravaged by the Blight."

[Giggles_Manically]

Nice Lady Jess.



I think we should all stop the merri go round of Ali/Loghain debate though.

I am sorry for opening that can of worms.



Now back to trying not to laugh playing a 2H Dalish girl who hates Shems.

I love the smell of racism in the morning smells like well stupidity to me.

[errant_knight]

One thing that the debate brings up that I think is a really interesting point that I'd never considered, and may be possible to discuss without going down the road 'o doom, is that we tend to look at his leaving as something instantaneous, like he teleported out of the country and could have been thinking only one thing the entire time. But he must have come up some kind of plan, some course of action as to how to proceed, and I doubt it was parking himself in a tavern and drinking himself to death. That's the kind of thing that happens over time, not in a week.

[Gilsa]

@yukidama -- It's all about the pumpkin pie for meeee!

@Lady Jess -- OH WOW. Score!!

[Skyl4rk]

Nice Lady Jess! She looks good! Kudos to Ximena for doing an awesome job on her

@Giggles: I prefer my mornings sans ignorami stench, so have fun with that 

Modifié par Skyl4rk, 25 novembre 2010 - 06:05 .

[errant_knight]

Does Ximena have an art page? I think I should check it out.

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

Does Ximena have an art page? I think I should check it out.

http://ximena07.deviantart.com/

[mellifera]

Yeah, she has a really good Morrigan/Cousland comic, which says a lot since I am actually not keen on romancing Morrigan xD http://ximena07.deviantart.com/

[Giggles_Manically]

If I had to guess I think that this is a fairly close timeline:

Landsmeet Happens >Day 0 >Denerim Palace.

-During this time frame Alistair probably sells most of his possesions (armour, etc)

-Using the time frame Eamon uses its a four day round trip to Denerim and back. However using Dagna's timeline a round trip between the Circle and Orzamar is 2 weeks. So I would place the whole time between Redcliffe and Denerim at being more than a month total time.



Attack on Denerim >Day 30

-While it is not indicated Alistair would not have been inside the city before the attack and more than likely had already departed on a ship. Which we have to assume is what many people did. This explains why people lose track of him if they were watching since he would be lost in a crowd fleeing onto ships.



There is as much as a month between when the Landsmeet happens and when he probably leaves. During this time he would more than likely be keeping a low profile along the docks, and in that time he might enter a tavern and decide to get drunk one night, He learns that drinking makes him forget his pain and feeling of loss so he keeps doing that. This starts him down the road toward alcholism.



At some point he probably saw or heard of the darkspawn army advancing but decided to leave. Or he had already left on a ship since it was to painful to stick around Denerim. His ending slide indicates he hires a Rivani ship to take him north. So maybe he heard of the attack later and how the Warden/Loghain saved the city and that Loghain either died a redeemed hero, or is still alive.



That more than likely seals the last nail in that coffin and pushes him over into the broken drunk who claims to be a prince and a grey warden.



Thats just my theory though.

[errant_knight]

Thanks for the link, guys!

@Giggles. A month seems like a really long time, but I suppose it's possible. To me that makes it even less likely that Alistair came up with no plan at all in that time, and I see him as likely leaving immediately. He's writing everything off, and sticking around would just make it even more painful.