39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Yankee23]

Hehe...here's Wynne's current ensemble.




Edit: And here's an Alistair for ToP.

Modifié par Yankee23, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:02 .

[Giggles_Manically]

@Yankee

[Gilsa]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Does Alistair have any dialouge for a mistress warden, I know he has some for a Queen warden.

I just cant make any of my wardens into a mistress though.
Too many negative connotations to that word for me.

Yes, he does, but I cannot remember what they are offhand. I DO remember that if you are a mistress while he's married to Anora and he tells you that he can't wait to see you upstairs later, you can ask about Anora and he'll reply, "Pfft, let her get her own conquering hero, I've got mine."

AAAAAAND secondly, this has been quibbled to death so I won't argue it -- just pointing out that it's technically not a "mistress" unless Anora is in the picture. If he's sole king, then you are his lover, ffs. =p The game ends there. Unless they surprise us in DA2 by saying that King Alistair eventually found someone to reproduce with, I honestly doubt that he's ever going to marry anyone past origins. So it's not a mistress ending in the real sense of the word. Is there a stigma associated with asking Leliana or Zevran to remain as lovers while the HN marries into the throne? Big deal. =p

[RagingCyclone]

Gilsa, for shame. Leliana and Alistair. No no no no no no.

[Sarah1281]

@Gilsa: Well, when he gives you his 'we need to break-up' speech he certainly talks about doing just that although if you convince him that as king he can do whatever he wants then I suppose it's possible he sees that as not needing to marry. Unless you have that conversation, though, and stay with him I'm willing to bet - from his own words - that he will get married and try to have an heir.

[Gilsa]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Gilsa, for shame. Leliana and Alistair. No no no no no no.

What I meant was, if people don't have a problem asking Leliana or Zevran to be understanding of their political marriages and to remain as their lover instead, then why can't the shoe fit on the other foot when they're in the position of having to be a mistress and/or lover? If Alistair found someone to reproduce with or to marry for heir reasons, then cross that bridge when the time comes. We don't know that Anora ever actually has a child if she is sole ruler. It's much ado about nothing until we know one way or another. Maybe DA2 will have answers then.

[Addai]

Gilsa wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Does Alistair have any dialouge for a mistress warden, I know he has some for a Queen warden.

I just cant make any of my wardens into a mistress though.
Too many negative connotations to that word for me.

Yes, he does, but I cannot remember what they are offhand. I DO remember that if you are a mistress while he's married to Anora and he tells you that he can't wait to see you upstairs later, you can ask about Anora and he'll reply, "Pfft, let her get her own conquering hero, I've got mine."

AAAAAAND secondly, this has been quibbled to death so I won't argue it -- just pointing out that it's technically not a "mistress" unless Anora is in the picture. If he's sole king, then you are his lover, ffs. =p The game ends there. Unless they surprise us in DA2 by saying that King Alistair eventually found someone to reproduce with, I honestly doubt that he's ever going to marry anyone past origins. So it's not a mistress ending in the real sense of the word. Is there a stigma associated with asking Leliana or Zevran to remain as lovers while the HN marries into the throne? Big deal. =p

Yeah the end dialogues are different, obviously.  I especially like the line when you say he'll have to get used to official functions and he says "the way I see it, I can put up with it all as long as I have you."  The "where is this going" dialogue after the Landsmeet, while the same for an HNF marrying him, only really makes sense when the Warden is mistress.  It's also very <3-worthy ("I'm not going to let you get away, if that's what you're thinking.  King or no king, I'll make it work.")

I know it's an idiosyncratic view, and I'm not going to bother to defend it, but the mistress ending is terribly romantic.    I think because he's willing to fight for you to stay together.

Modifié par Addai67, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:23 .

[inclemency]

@Sarah - Lol, yep, you know that Eamon would parade every female in Ferelden under Alistair's nose, pushing him all the way to the altar.

Modifié par inclemency, 02 décembre 2010 - 04:24 .

[Sarah1281]

I think we do know that Anora never has a child because she never marries and if she did get pregnant, I think she would get married to the father quickly to avoid a scandal and complications for her heir. I would never ask Leliana or Zevran to stay on as mistress/lover because I would never be okay with that myself and therefore wouldn't feel right asking them to do that even if they were perfectly willing.



The reason I think Alistair would get married no matter what is that it's one thing to stay with someone you love and put your happiness above a sense of propriety but Alistair's the only living Theirin. His being hardened doesn't mean he no longer cares at all for duty or he never would have agreed to take the throne in the first place (obviously, imo). There's not much of a chance he'll be able to have an heir either way but knowingly not even trying for one despite knowing what Cailan's lack of an heir led to? I do not see that happening though others have made it clear that they can.

[Giggles_Manically]

Yeah I cant see Alistair staying with a mistress very easily.

He may be convinced in the short run, but in the end he would probably hate lying to whoever he married.



Alistair just does not seem like the type of person who could hold a secret like that from someone.



@inclemecy

That is another issue, since he WILL have to marry, and like I pointed out I doubt that he has the ability to have a mistress if he is married to someone else.

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
That is another issue, since he WILL have to marry, and like I pointed out I doubt that he has the ability to have a mistress if he is married to someone else.

Unless, of course, he finds a bi wife cool with threesomes.

[Giggles_Manically]

@Sarah



I doubt many women in Fereldan would be open to that though.

As Zevran puts it: You Fereldans are such prudes.

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...
I know it's an idiosyncratic view, and I'm not going to bother to defend it, but the mistress ending is terribly romantic.    I think because he's willing to fight for you to stay together.

You know, that brings up an interesting point. Will Alistair need to fight for you to stay together and, if so, how hard? He seems to think so but no one else mentions anything in the game about Alistair needing to. Eamon and Anora can both tell if you're with him and if you suggest a marriage between Alistair and Anora they both ask about you. Anora, of course, isn't thrilled to be going into a marriage where her future husband will have someone on the side before they even get married but just wants it to be kept quiet. Eamon doesn't try to warn you that you'll have to step aside once Alistair is king and only expresses concern once Anora is brought up as a potential wife as if Alistair's marriage to Anora might threaten your relationship but Alistair being king might not be.

Loghain mentions that origin-age-Alistair had to be kept secret because otherwise Rowan would have looked like a concubine but that was when a child was involved. If it's a mistress who never gets pregnant and doesn't flaunt the fact that she's sleeping with the king (they're just friends, people of Ferelden! They ended the Blight together!), would there be a problem? What is Ferelden's attitude towards mistresses? Would they even be expected to hide it? 

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Yeah I cant see Alistair staying with a mistress very easily.
He may be convinced in the short run, but in the end he would probably hate lying to whoever he married.

Alistair just does not seem like the type of person who could hold a secret like that from someone.

@inclemecy
That is another issue, since he WILL have to marry, and like I pointed out I doubt that he has the ability to have a mistress if he is married to someone else.

Who says you have to lie?  He makes a political marriage and it's all on the table.

But I said I wasn't going to defend it.  *shuts up*

[Jon Jern_]

Thanks alot guys, now whenever I make Alistair king I will think about this.

I JUST WANTED TO HEAR HIS SPEECH, BUT IT HURTS NOW MAN.

[RagingCyclone]

Being the Hero of Ferelden I am sure would have it's perks. Why would Alistair have to hide anything where the Hero is involved?

[Sarah1281]

People have short memories? I've certainly seen fanfics take that route on numerous occasions.

[Giggles_Manically]

As much mad props as the warden gets people would not like an elf or mage being known as the kings mistress.



People see race before they will ever see reason.

Popular demand which Alistair would follow, might make it hard to keep the mistress around.

Or Anora could make things so bad that the warden might leave.

OR <insert random Soap Opera plot>



Yeah I just dont see it as romantic, or something that can last for very long.

I did read a fanfic once though that had Eamon assassinate an City Elf mistress since Alistair was not interested in marrying anyone. Wish I could find it again since it was well done.

[Sarah1281]

I've seen several fanfics where Alistair falls in love with his wife and so either ends things with the Warden or the Warden sees him getting too guilty or distant and ends things, one where the Warden left because everyone knew she was the mistress and she didn't like how she was viewed, one where Eamon talked the Warden into ending it because the rumors were getting really bad and hurting the monarchy and people still call the Warden a 'knife-ear', and one where the evil queen has the Chantry declare that Alistair is under the influence of a blood mage because he's decided to resume his relationship with the Warden and his young half-dwarven daughter with the Warden happens to be a mage so she must be the one responsible.

[Giggles_Manically]

I liked the fic I was reading though.

After the Warden dies, Zevran is able to follow some leads and learn that Eamon did it, but Alistair could not do anything since it looked like she had died in her sleep, plus no one knew she was his lover.
Alistair wanted to kill Eamon but Eamon was very well protected and then Eamon tried to force Alistair to marry some young noble that would help advance his cause.

It was very interesting than I deleted the link when cleaning up my faveourites.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 02 décembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[Sarah1281]

I didn't say the ones I mentioned were bad, just that they involved Alistair/mistress not working out.

[LadyDamodred]

It seems to me that if Alistair has an Antivan Crow at his disposal, Eamon's protection shouldn't really matter.



I think, in the long run, it might be very difficult for Alistair to keep a mistress if he marries. Especially if he has a good relationship with the woman he marries. It's all up for debate, and people will see it differently, but I think his inherent sense of rightness would create problems down the line.

[Gilsa]

@Giggles -- I had two mistress ending playthroughs (one got deleted), but with different scenarios. The first was a DC that romanced Alistair. Since Rica was the mistress of a dwarven king, the DC had no issues being a mistress of a human king either. Pretty sure I married Alistair off to Anora because better that he be married to the devil you knew instead of the one you didn't. =p

The second scenario was completely inspired by KoP's dwarf run. He kept a weak Alistair on the throne so he could run Ferelden as a chancellor while Bhelen controlled the dwarven empire so I modeled my game after his, only with the romance angle worked in. Obviously my game had a hardened Alistair so the DN stayed on as his lover and chancellor so she could work with both Alistair and Bhelen to have a stronger empire. I know that human nobles only marry other human nobles, but considering the DN was royalty of sorts, I can't quite rule out a future possibility that Alistair marrying a dwarf noble would make the two kingdoms stronger. (Hey, it could happen. Not ruling anything out!) I don't think she'd have a problem with Alistair having to take a wife for a heir though because the breeding and lineage issue is pretty similar in Orzammar. (She couldn't openly be with Gorim either so this is something that they're already accustomed to.) I have no idea how I'd approach this with an elf though. Never thought about it from their perspective.

Modifié par Gilsa, 02 décembre 2010 - 08:26 .

[nos_astra]

I have changed my Queen ending to a mistress ending, with Alistair married to Anora. My Cousland is Arlessa of Amaranthine and Commander of the Grey, she's human, she's a noble, marriage is not an issue for her (she could marry for reputation but since she can't provide an heir there's no point). She's a perfectly acceptable mistress.

I think, such a relationship could go on for years, but not forever. The distance and the fact that Alistair is married to someone else would probably be a strain on the relationship.
I'm not fond of the "if Alistair is worthy of her he's going to fight for their relationship" take, either they make it work or they don't. It's a bit more complicated than that, I think. Being a king and living under the close scrutiny of the nobility, the Landsmeet, the people, while trying to rule a poor country that is in a fragile state, always verging on civil war, there are some things that seem more important than his relationships.

I also think the political marriage is a very interesting thing, especially with Anora, especially if there's a mistress, especially if the monarchs take their marital duties seriously. I doubt you can be married to someone and sleep with them without forming some kind of bond, at the same time I doubt this bond is necessarily going to be a cutesy, fluffy romance full of happiness.
Yes, I have very detailed thoughts about what happens, when the Warden has to go and live at Amaranthine.

Modifié par klarabella, 02 décembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[Maria13]

I so regret being European sometimes.

My take on this is that after all he has been through with the Warden to end the Blight Alistair works out that the important thing in life is to be happy.  This does not turn him into an out an out hedonist but rather a hedonist with a tricky conscience. He decided he should do what he likes within certain constraints those being, don't harm other people if you can possibly help it and sometimes duty has to come first (but not always).  He also concludes it is pointless having a child with someone he does not love because the child will be unhappy (and of course, he has already done that, his potential heir is in Morrie's belly) and an unhappy child will make an unhappy adult which will make an unhappy monarch... In fact, he's starting to have second thoughts about the heir thing... Being king does not make him automatically happy, why on earth should he force that on his children? 

If he has anymore, of course.

Additionally, I think he shows a healty scepticism about the Theirin blood thing, he may not think that Cailan or Maric were actually such shining examples as monarchs he may not think that of himself, he could come to the conclusion that a talented commoner would make an equally good a king as a spoilt noble... Alistair being a bastard and having the upbringing that he did has his feet in two camps and is in a position to question assumptions both about marriage/partnership/love and power.

It is Thursday, right?

Modifié par Maria13, 02 décembre 2010 - 11:57 .