39010 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Oh, right. That one looked different than the other Witcher mods I've seen.

@errant, dynasties do come to an end.  There certainly is precedent in English history as well as other European monarchies.

Indeed they do, but this isn't history, it's an adventure story. The question is, does it suit their story to establish a line of heroic kings and then end that line in the first installment, and so soon after the throne is regained, first by Maric, and then (in many playthroughs) by Alistair? It may, but it may not. If they want the Calenhad line to play a part in future stories, given that Alistair doesn't always end up with the throne, and likely can't reproduce, the only way to leave that option open is to have another Theirin out there.

D'oh, top of page.... Okay, all I have is a rejected illustration for my story. It was abandoned early on, so the lighting and composition isn't great, but them's the breaks. (Note: they're seeing something bad.)

Modifié par errant_knight, 10 décembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Wulfram]

Addai67 wrote...
@errant, dynasties do come to an end.  There certainly is precedent in English history as well as other European monarchies.

Though they'd survive pretty well if they were allowed to continue through the female line as they apparantly do in Ferelden.

[Tigress M]

errant_knight wrote...

Tigress M wrote...
Alistair's comment I can write off as an outright lie (though I will admit it did give me pause when I first came across it). But this stuff with Loghain is more difficult to ignore, imho.
And of course, if Fiona is NOT Alistair's mother, that means there's a third heir out there somewhere which my twisted mind can't help but wonder if they could be tied into DA2, perhaps even Hawke him/herself. (I'm sure there are tons of reasons why that can't be, which, having purposely avoided the DA2 forum, I am completely oblivious to. But, it's fun to ponder, nonetheless. LOL)

That stuff with Loghain is pretty darn specific. I've never heard that, since I've never left him alive. It makes Maric's lack of acknowledgement make more sense than if it's not the case.

I have a hard time believing that they set up a Theirin dynasty that lasted 400 years, unbroken only by the Orlesian occupation, only to have the line die out with Alistair.

That's where I'm at, errant.  I understand many who believe Fiona is Alistair's mother wanting to write this off as just another plot inconsistency, but I just can't do that.  If it were more vague, I might be able to rationalize it, but it's not.  Loghain believes Alistair was a threat to Rowan and Cailan's status.  The only way I can logically see him feeling that way is if Alistair was born either before or during Rowan's marriage to Maric.  Nothing else makes sense.  

Ah well... it's fun speculating!  Alistair approves +10:

[Addai]

Tigress M wrote...
That's where I'm at, errant.  I understand many who believe Fiona is Alistair's mother wanting to write this off as just another plot inconsistency, but I just can't do that.  If it were more vague, I might be able to rationalize it, but it's not.  Loghain believes Alistair was a threat to Rowan and Cailan's status.  The only way I can logically see him feeling that way is if Alistair was born either before or during Rowan's marriage to Maric.  Nothing else makes sense.  

The game writers have said Alistair is in his early 20s and that the toolset age is incorrect, so whether or not Alistair is Fiona's son, it's not possible that he was born prior to Rowan's death.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 décembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[tuppence95]

Tigress M wrote...

That's where I'm at, errant.  I understand many who believe Fiona is Alistair's mother wanting to write this off as just another plot inconsistency, but I just can't do that.  If it were more vague, I might be able to rationalize it, but it's not.  Loghain believes Alistair was a threat to Rowan and Cailan's status.  The only way I can logically see him feeling that way is if Alistair was born either before or during Rowan's marriage to Maric.  Nothing else makes sense.  

I really don't want to get another Loghain debate started, but it seemed like he believed a lot of things.  Many of them turned out not to be true.  Seems like he had some problems with paranoia.

Edit - another great toolset picture, errant_knight!

Modifié par tuppence95, 10 décembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[Merilsell]

Sorry for derailing the thread but I'm sulking again.

So new PC is here, as said and lol things can never run as smoothly as it supposed to be with my luck. First old hag had taken my new shiny PC and now I already found a mistake. Argh. Have checked the system with everest dianostic program and I have apparently a Ram problem, sort of. I have two ram-slots a 2 GB, but only one of them is recognized and working (yes, I have Win7 64 bit) -__- It seems either the slot is broken or the ram. Great, just great. Now I need to phone them.

*sulks in a corner*

Is 2 GB RAM enough to run DA:O properly under Win7 for the moment ?

Modifié par Merilsell, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Should be if you turn a few things to lower settings.

[Merilsell]

Which ones? Elaborate please.

Alistair has a sad too that he has to wait even longer for Lenya :

[Giggles_Manically]

Uno Momento Please.

Simply turn off Anti-Aliasing
Then Reduce your Texture and Graphics detail under the options tab.

Should work your you.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 10 décembre 2010 - 09:52 .

[Merilsell]

Thanks. Will try it and phone the tech support on Monday.(No I won't open that thing myself, I would only broke more. Even if the RAM bar is just loosened... for what do I have that nice thing called warranty and costumer service if not for that?

Well, positive thing is that I can stop shovel my data on it for the time being, if I have to send it back anyway. Why me, why always meeee?

Gawd, this sucks. HARD. >__>

[nos_astra]

I'm supposed to give a prompt tomorrow and I have to friggin' idea what to choose.

Modifié par klarabella, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:26 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Use the schwartz- I mean the force!

[Skyl4rk]

Tigress M wrote...

I just dug out what I think is an interesting nugget in a conversation with Loghain.  Don't shoot me for bringing up the Fiona subject, but I'd like to hear if those who believe Fiona is Alistair's son can help me understand how Loghain's comments below fit into that theory.  

PC:  How well did you know King Maric?
Loghain:  He was my friend. If he'd wanted to conquer the Fade, I would have led the charge.
PC:  Why didn't he acknowledge Alistair?
Loghain:  He nearly did.  Maric was never one to avoid his duty, and given his preference he would have acknowledged his son no matter the circumstance. But he had more than his honor to think of.  It would have ruined Rowan, after all. She'd be reduced to a concubine in the eyes of our neighbors, and put Cailan's status as heir in question.  So Maric made the hard choice. Eamon offered to raise the boy, and that was that.

Why, on two counts?  Why would it have ruined Rowan since she's dead.  How could having a relationship after her death change her status as lawful wife?  And, why would it put Cailan's status as heir in question?  

Not to necro an already dead discussion and regurgitate what others have already responded...but I just wanted to express my opinion as well.  So please, bear with me...or just ignore 
 
From that line, I’ve always thought that it was only playing to Loghain’s emotional attachment to Rowan. Maybe he only meant that her memory deserved much better than being labeled as just one of the lovers that Maric had taken.  Even though he was not the promiscuous type, we all know how gossip tend to get embellished and completely branch out from the truth, and I think that was how Loghain saw it and feared. 
 
As for the “ruin” of Rowan, I didn’t think he was speaking of Rowan herself. It was more like (once again) her image/memory. Consider how Fiona had 3 strikes against her: Orlesian, Elf, and Mage.  If Maric had acknowledged Alistair as his own, what kind of message would that give to the people of Ferelden? This is of course looking through Loghain’s logic (and most likely the majority of the Orlesian-hating, Elven-prejudice, Mage-fearing populace’s as well).
 
For Cailan’s status as heir, if the people knew about Alistair as an acknowledged son of Maric, it’s only natural to follow the stronger leader. And we all know what kind of king Cailan was. 

Anyway, just my own interpretation on it. 

[Skyl4rk]

You're safe Klarabella.  Tomorrow is Tigress' turn

[nos_astra]

Oh, really? Good thing I said something. One more week to think then.

Modifié par klarabella, 10 décembre 2010 - 10:27 .

[Wulfram]

[Tigress M]

@Sky - You have good logic. But she was queen when she died, so I'm not sure how Maric taking a lover and fathering a child after her death would demote her to a concubine.

As for the stronger leader, that would make sense if Alistair had remained the hard personality the writers originally intended. And in that light, I can see how he would have been a threat to Cailan, thereby making it easier to write Loghain's comments off as a continuity issue where they didn't clean up his dialog after Alistair underwent a character change.

Now, you do have an excellent point in regards to who/what Fiona was. Having taken an Orlesian Elven Mage as a lover would most certainly put Maric in a bad light, and I can see Loghain coming up with some story about Rowan's honor to cover what would most certainly be a smear on Maric's memory. THAT right there could be the answer to it all... more cover up regarding Alistair's heritage.

So, while I'm still not QUITE convinced Fiona's his mother, if it turns out to be true, I can understand why Loghain lied about it. Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[Sarah1281]

Did Loghain lie? He never said anything about who Alistair's mother was or when he was born.

[Giggles_Manically]

That would be BAD for Alistair if people found out about Fiona being his mother if he is King.

An Orlesian would be bad enough, but a elven mage added to that?



Big trouble right there.

[Addai]

Except there's no indication that Loghain knew who the mother was. In The Calling, Maric was taking pains to conceal it from him.

[Tigress M]

Yes, I have the prompt for tomorrow. I hope it will be a fun one!

@Sarah - We don't know, that's the million dollar question. By the dialog (you can see it in a quote in Sky's post above), he makes it sound as if Alistair were born while Rowan was still alive.

@Giggles - Very bad. But then the question arises, IF that were true, would Loghain have revealed that at the LM in an attempt to keep Anora on the throne, or would he have kept quiet, out of respect for Maric. Interesting question, don't you think?

And now to completely change the subject, here's some more Bera and Alistair... I seem to have a lot of them kissing. I must have been subconsciously storing up kisses for when he left.

[Tigress M]

Addai67 wrote...

Except there's no indication that Loghain knew who the mother was. In The Calling, Maric was taking pains to conceal it from him.

He doesn't know about Fiona... doesn't mean he doesn't know who Alistair's mother is, if she isn't it. 

[Sarah1281]

@Sarah - We don't know, that's the million dollar question. By the dialog (you can see it in a quote in Sky's post above), he makes it sound as if Alistair were born while Rowan was still alive.

By why would it be so out there for Maric to have made Loghain think that Alistair was older than he actually was and born while Rowan was still alive to conceal the fact that Fiona was his mother? If Alistair had been born before Maric had so much as heard of Fiona, there's no way she could have been his mother and so that would be the best way for Maric to keep it a secret like Fiona wanted. If Loghain was told that Alistair was born or at least conceived at the end of Rowan's life than Loghain wouldn't want to know any more about it and once Alistair started getting older, it would be harder to tell just how old he was by sight.



I think Loghain was telling the truth as he knew it but Maric made sure to deliberately mislead him.

[nos_astra]

The strongest point against another Theirin bastard is: A unknown guy comes up and claims to be Maric's third son. How does he know? How is he going to prove it? Who's going to believe him?

Maric is dead, Duncan is dead, Fiona is an Orlesian Elven Warden Mage.

Modifié par klarabella, 10 décembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[Wulfram]

klarabella wrote...

The strongest point against another Theirin bastard is: A unknown guy comes up and claims to be Maric's third son. How does he know? How is he going to prove it? Who's going to believe him?

Maric is dead, Duncan is dead, Fiona is an Orlesian Elven Warden Mage.

If he looks as similar as Alistair and Cailan, people might believe him.  A lot of people would likely want to believe him, if it's the only way the bloodline survives