35 réponses à ce sujet

[Jians]

My apologies if a similar topic has been posted before but I can't seem to find it.

As per the topic, does the 15% power damage bonus from Commando factor into the damage bonus of Adrenaline Rush? I.e. Commando + Heightened Adrenaline Rush: 1.15 * 140% = 161% damage bonus total?

[Athenau]

Yes I've tested it and it stacks. Generic power damage bonuses affect all powers AFAICT.

Modifié par Athenau, 11 août 2010 - 10:34 .

[Super ._. Shepard]

yes it affects all powers

[ryoldschool]

I thought they were addative ( 1.4 + .15 ). But also the power damage works on ammo powers also

[Athenau]

I thought they were addative ( 1.4 + .15 ).

The weapon damage bonuses from commando and adrenaline rush are most likely additive. But the power damage bonus from commando also affects the bonus from adrenaline rush (and ammo powers, and all other powers that do or add damage in some way).

Modifié par Athenau, 11 août 2010 - 12:13 .

[termokanden]

You don't have to speculate, "All upgrades and other bonuses are added together first" as described in the "Mass Effect 2 Gameplay Data" sticky.

It doesn't explain this case, however. It makes sense that it works the way Athenau says though. It's not a damage increase, it's an percentage increase of the bonus. It still wasn't clear to me whether it affected AR though.

Modifié par termokanden, 11 août 2010 - 12:24 .

[ryoldschool]

If it affects ar then blood dragon armor (+15% power damage) should work great. But I thought power damage referred to tech and biotic only???

[OniGanon]

AFAIK 'Power Damage' (without specifying biotic or tech) affects all damage from Shepard that isn't melee or weapon damage. That includes combat powers (flash grenade, concussive shot, yeah I know loldamage), ammo powers and physical force (eg Throw).

I don't think anything actually boosts the damage bonus of Adrenaline Rush or Tactical Cloak. They just stack with it.

Modifié par OniGanon, 11 août 2010 - 05:19 .

[Athenau]

I don't think anything actually boosts the damage bonus of Adrenaline Rush or Tactical Cloak. They just stack with it.

Generic power damage definitely affects rush. In my testing with Commando + Heightened adrenaline rush I consistently got a > 2.5x damage boost, where as an unmodified rush could only grant 2.4x (+140%).

[PWENEFIED]

What I do: Commando+Adrenaline Rush+Widow= One-hit kill in Insanity (Headshots Help)

[ryoldschool]

I tested blood dragon armor with lvl2 ar on grunt recruitment and I should have seen a 15% increase on weapon damage if it affected are - but it did not. I did headshot on merchant with full shields and they still had a good bit of health left. Tried same section with armor that gives 8% weapon damage and headshot with mantis left merchant with sliver of health.

[ryoldschool]

So I am not sure what the commando power bonus affects

Would like a Dev to clarify please

[Jade Elf]

Passive abilities don't benefit from "+ % Power Damage" bonuses. It's things like AR and any ammo powers that get the bonus, if you're playing a Soldier. See the list in the sticky thread.

[ryoldschool]

This thread is about ar which is not a passive. OP questions commando affecting ar. Not clear to me if it does or not.

[Jians]

Thanks for the replies folks. It helped clear out some confusion I'd been having bout the mechanics of power damage.

The general consensus so far is that power damage does affect majority of the Soldier's abilities, specifically Adrenaline Rush and Ammo Powers.

That in turn brought up another interesting question to mind, which is, does +power damage as a stat on armor bring more benefit than +weapon damage?

I've been doing some theoretical math for this and here's what I came up with.

Assuming a base weapon damage of 100dmg, we take a +5% weapon damage vs +5% power damage. Now, I'm not sure whether or not bonus weapon damage is factored in after power bonus multipliers but I'll take a best case scenario, therefore the result is (taking to lowest possible bonus damage, i.e. hardened adrenaline rush and squad warp ammo) = (100 * (200% + 35%)) * 1.05 = 246.75.

Compared to a +5% power damage increase, 100 * (205% + 40%) = 245. Here we see assuming an equal amount of increase for a given piece of armor, +weapon damage wins out.

However, in cases where power damage has a slight edge (notably for shoulder armor, Amplifier 5% vs N7 Shoulder 3%), you'd get 100 * (205% + 40%) = 245 vs (100 * (200% + 35%)) * 1.03 = 242.05.

Thoughts, opinions, corrections?

P.S. Power Damage Mechanics Source : http://social.biowar.../index/1143264.
Equation reference quote "All upgrades and other bonuses are added together first: 50% + 15% = 65% total power damage bonus.
Base Heavy Overload damage becomes: 200 * 1.65 = 330" - Eric F agnan

Edited for structure.

Modifié par Jians, 16 août 2010 - 10:59 .

[termokanden]

If all bonuses are additive, then
(100 * (200% + 35%)) * 1.05 = 246.75
doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Wouldn't it be
(100 * (200% + 35%+5%)) = 240
instead (in which case weapon damage does NOT win )?

If weapon damage works off the BASE damage (which is what I thought) and power damage is added the way it is described in the gameplay data thread, then you don't have to do any calculations, power damage will always be better.

Edited for clarity: It seems to me from the gameplay data thread that power damage % is multiplied by the number of powers in use THEN applied to base damage, whereas weapon damage will just be applied to base damage.

However, you can't tell from that thread alone.

Modifié par termokanden, 16 août 2010 - 11:54 .

[Jians]

You forgot it add 5% power to Adrenaline Rush as well in your 2nd equation i.e. ((200%+5%) + (35%+5%)). But it doesn't really matter anyway cause the total it comes to is still lower at 245 compared to 246.75.

Regarding weapon damage, that's the biggest unknown factor so far(for me as I did not derive anything about it from the gameplay data data thread). Interestingly enough, I too believed that if +weapon damage worked off the BASE damage, it is obvious that +power damage will win flat out. However, after doing the math I was proved otherwise.

Below are the equations I used.

+5% base weapon damage for weapon with 100 base damage :
((100 * 1.05) * (200% + 35%)) = still 246.75! (vs 245)

On a higher spectrum ... taking a base damage of 200:
((200 * 1.05) * (200% + 35%)) = 493.5
versus a +5% power damage:
(200 * (205% + 40%)) = 490

Even if you change the 5% base weapon damage back into total damage:
(200 * (200% + 35%)) * 1.05 = 493.5.
This means +weapon damage is no longer a factor because it doesn't matter when or where you put it into the damage calculation.

What's intriguing, is the exponential increase in favour of weapon damage bonus as the weapon's base damage increases. At a weapon base damage of 100, we get a total of 246.75 vs 245 after bonuses ... but at 200, we get 493.5 vs 490. That's a 100% increase in differential at double the base weapon damage (!)

Edited for grammar and spelling.

Modifié par Jians, 16 août 2010 - 12:41 .

[termokanden]

Jians wrote...

Regarding weapon damage, that's the biggest unknown factor so far(for me as I did not derive anything about it from the gameplay data data thread). Interestingly enough, I too believed that if +weapon damage worked off the BASE damage, it is obvious that +power damage will win flat out. However, after doing the math I was proved otherwise.

Below are the equations I used.

+5% base weapon damage for weapon with 100 base damage :
((100 * 1.05) * (200% + 35%)) = still 246.75! (vs 245)

You have the math wrong. This is not "working off the base damage". This multiplies the weapon bonus damage with the other bonuses. That is:

((X * 1.05) * (200% + 35%)) = (X * (200% + 35%)) * 1.05
based on the fact that multiplication is commutative.

Working off the base damage means simply adding the 5% to the other bonuses, i.e.:

X * (200% + 35% + 5%) = X * 240%

So if X = 100, you get 240, which is definitely lower than 245

What's intriguing, is the exponential increase in favour of weapon damage bonus as the weapon's base damage increases. At a weapon base damage of 100, we get a total of 246.75 vs 245 after bonuses ... but at 200, we get 493.5 vs 490. That's a 100% increase in differential at double the base weapon damage (!)

I can't help commenting on this as well. In one case you multiply base damage by 2.4675. In the other by 2.45. That is, in one case you have 2.4675 * X and in the other you have 2.45 X, i.e. two lines. The difference is .0175 X. That means the difference grows linearly with the base damage, not exponentially.

Also, edited for spelling again. I CAN'T SPELL.

Modifié par termokanden, 16 août 2010 - 01:09 .

[Jians]

Ah, my bad. Misread your first couple of sentence and thought you were comparing my 2 equations. Need moar coffee!



Anyway, that's a sound theory you have there. I'm honestly hoping you're right cause I personally am in favour of +power damage as my main stats. Although it is odd to be having mainly a biotic/tech stats as a solder's main too. Just need a dev to confirm it or something

[termokanden]

It's not really a biotic/tech thing. It's even built into the soldier's passive skill if you choose Commando.



Probably worth mentioning that power damage has the added bonus of working for your whole squad if you have any squad ammo powers.

[Jians]

So, does this mean that I should go +power damage even in a situation where I have an armor piece with +5% weapon damage vs one with +3% power damage?

[ryoldschool]

I contacted Eric ****nan with this question:



Eric and Christina, we have a post up right now where two guys are saying the 15% power damage in commando passive of soldier affects AR. Based on my in-game testing I see Blood Dragon Armor does not affect AR. In your sticky on the thread it does not say if AR is affected or not by Power Damage. What is the story.



Here is what he told me in response:



"Adrenaline Rush only gives a weapon damage bonus. It does not affect power damage at all. Hope that clears things up. I'll try updating the sticky thread."



So that would mean to me that the power damage passive in commando does not affect the damage done by Adrenaline Rush because it is weapon damage, not power damage - so bonuses about power damage would not apply.



I guess what the power damage increase in commando is good for a biotic power like reave, or your ammo powers.

[termokanden]

ryoldschool wrote...

"Adrenaline Rush only gives a weapon damage bonus. It does not affect power damage at all. Hope that clears things up. I'll try updating the sticky thread."

That wasn't the question at all. The question is whether power damage affects AR, not whether AR affects power damage. It's pretty obvious it does not

I guess what the power damage increase in commando is good for a biotic power like reave, or your ammo powers.

Power damage definitely also increase weapon damage by boosting ammo powers. People are saying it also boosts AR, but they have not confirmed this.

Like I said, weapon damage VS power damage boils down to whether weapon damage affects base damage (which I think it does) or if it doesn't. Then if power damage affects AR, power damage is better. If not, they are equally good.

If it should be the case that weapon damage is applied after other bonuses, well then it varies a bit.

Modifié par termokanden, 17 août 2010 - 08:40 .

[ryoldschool]

termokanden - I know eric did not phrase his answer the way that directly answered the question - that is why I posted the question I put to him. I have asked him again to clarify, but I think the answer is clear enough. If the 15% power damage did affect AR then it would lead to an increase of 21% weapon damage ( or 15% if you go hardned ) which you should be able to see by Horizon. I hope he will clarify, but if it did affect AR his answer is really off target.

[Eric Fagnan]

No bonuses affect the AR weapon damage increase. You always get 100% from the base AR and 140% from Heightened AR.



Hope that clears things up.