97 réponses à ce sujet

[Tokion]

The Mattock outshines the Revenant in the hands of a Soldier. But recently I started a Vanguard, put the Revenant in his hands and you can *melt face*(literally) when you charge your enemies, much better than the shotguns.

Each round of inferno ammo popping at a merc's head(point blank) is the most satisfying thing ever.

Modifié par Tokion, 12 août 2010 - 02:58 .

[Kid_SixXx]

racerfox wrote...

It just gets boring for me when the Rev, being so reliable, can be used for the entire mission. Sometimes I'm right at the end of a long mission and realise I haven't switched weapons once and have kind of sleepwalked the thing simply because the Rev has such ridiculous capacity.

Understandable because a game's adoptation to your playstyle is very important and yes, Revenant and Heightened AR really does change the tone of battle in ME.  Once I got the Revenant, I found myself taking more offensive and aggressive postures in my tactics rather than finding cover and then responding with counterfire. 

Being a Department of Army civillian logistician and having experienced two firefights while on temporary duty in Iraq a couple years ago, I just find it terribly odd that you'd consider lack of ammo capacity to be a plus.

I personally found comfort in knowing I had an extra magazine or two for my Glock for just in case.

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 12 août 2010 - 03:28 .

[racerfox]

Well, it's not that the limited ammo capacity itsellf is a plus, it's simply a byproduct of the limitation means a more dynamic play.



Not that it's really a major point as I never run out of even Mattock ammo that often.



Real life fire fights and video game fire fights don't really have any kind of parallel. Not quite sure what you're doing with that comment except showing off.

[JaegerBane]

racerfox wrote...

"its pretty much hands down the best gun in the game, as it should be"

It's so far from the best gun in the game. In fact, there is no 'best'. As the game is so easy on it's highest setting (once you're used to it), it becomes a matter of preference over any kind of DPS or number crunching worry.

And as the Rev doesn't even have the highest DPS...

I'd probably argue the Locust is bang for buck, the best gun in the game - there isn't anything that it can't really do.

Regarding the Rev... I dunno. It's a great gun but ultimately... the inaccuracy is absolutely punishing.

I like the automatic aspect but ultimately, I prefer the Mattock's accuracy and power. Functionally the Mattock is far closer to the ME1 Spectre X AR despite not being truly automatic.

[JaegerBane]

racerfox wrote...
Real life fire fights and video game fire fights don't really have any kind of parallel. Not quite sure what you're doing with that comment except showing off.

Agreed.

[Fiery Phoenix]

racerfox wrote...

Well, it's not that the limited ammo capacity itsellf is a plus, it's simply a byproduct of the limitation means a more dynamic play.

Not that it's really a major point as I never run out of even Mattock ammo that often.

Real life fire fights and video game fire fights don't really have any kind of parallel. Not quite sure what you're doing with that comment except showing off.

He was probably just making an analogy. I wouldn't call that showing off.

[Skyblade012]

Tokion wrote...

The Mattock outshines the Revenant in the hands of a Soldier. But recently I started a Vanguard, put the Revenant in his hands and you can *melt face*(literally) when you charge your enemies, much better than the shotguns.

Each round of inferno ammo popping at a merc's head(point blank) is the most satisfying thing ever.

The Mattock is easily better than every other assault rifle except the Revenant, even to Vanguards, and Vanguards can't get the Revenant without modding.

So, unless you are modding, you would never have any cause to use anything but the Mattock, since in the hands of a Soldier, it is vastly more powerful than the Revenant.

[termokanden]

The Locust doesn't have the highest dps though, does it? 24 or 25 damage per shot as I recall, and not that insane in RoF.

I'm not arguing that it isn't a good gun. It has incredibly accuracy. But the best? I would rather use the Rev personally.

If we are talking about ME1 guns, what this game is missing is the top spectre sniper rifle with two Rail Extension VIIs and High Explosive Rounds X. Most hilarious gun I've ever used in any game I think. Sure it overheats with every shot, but your target is thrown about 10 feet back and anyone around it just dies. One shot one kill indeed. All that's left is a burning corpse

Modifié par termokanden, 12 août 2010 - 04:24 .

[Kid_SixXx]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

racerfox wrote...

Well, it's not that the limited ammo capacity itsellf is a plus, it's simply a byproduct of the limitation means a more dynamic play.

Not that it's really a major point as I never run out of even Mattock ammo that often.

Real life fire fights and video game fire fights don't really have any kind of parallel. Not quite sure what you're doing with that comment except showing off.

He was probably just making an analogy. I wouldn't call that showing off.

Yep.  My point was whether in a game or real life, not running out of bullets is a good thing not a bad thing.
 
That is why I find the Revenant's ammo capacity counted as a black mark against it to be odd even when based on the criteria of playstyle.

The Mattock is very accurate but if you find yourself micromanaging your ammo count then perhaps you should position your squadies so that they can optimize their fire and generate enemy casualties rather than you running low of thermal clips due to you having to get every killshot yourself?

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 12 août 2010 - 05:49 .

[Arhka]

termokanden wrote...

The Locust doesn't have the highest dps though, does it? 24 or 25 damage per shot as I recall, and not that insane in RoF.

I'm not arguing that it isn't a good gun. It has incredibly accuracy. But the best? I would rather use the Rev personally.

If we are talking about ME1 guns, what this game is missing is the top spectre sniper rifle with two Rail Extension VIIs and High Explosive Rounds X. Most hilarious gun I've ever used in any game I think. Sure it overheats with every shot, but your target is thrown about 10 feet back and anyone around it just dies. One shot one kill indeed. All that's left is a burning corpse

Shotgun is funnier due to larger impact radius from slug spread. Also makes the Shotgun an exceptional defensive weapon for non-shotgun trained classes. Very hard to miss with this gun.

[Tokion]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Tokion wrote...

The Mattock outshines the Revenant in the hands of a Soldier. But recently I started a Vanguard, put the Revenant in his hands and you can *melt face*(literally) when you charge your enemies, much better than the shotguns.

Each round of inferno ammo popping at a merc's head(point blank) is the most satisfying thing ever.

The Mattock is easily better than every other assault rifle except the Revenant, even to Vanguards, and Vanguards can't get the Revenant without modding.

So, unless you are modding, you would never have any cause to use anything but the Mattock, since in the hands of a Soldier, it is vastly more powerful than the Revenant.

Yes I run a modded loadout for my vanguard to have all guns avalible. Having previously played 2 soldiers through insanity, I think Vanguard is a breath of fresh air. The Mattock just does not have enough ammo to sustain constant charges as oppose to the machine gun, also the Revenant *really* shines in close quarter combat.

Soldier is still my fav class though, they are so effective short/medium and long range. But they just feel weak at times(in terms of roleplay) because they lack *super powers* like the Vanguard.

Modifié par Tokion, 12 août 2010 - 06:10 .

[OniGanon]

termokanden wrote...

The Locust doesn't have the highest dps though, does it? 24 or 25 damage per shot as I recall, and not that insane in RoF.

I'm not arguing that it isn't a good gun. It has incredibly accuracy. But the best? I would rather use the Rev personally.

The DPS is still pretty good. And the lower DPS is, at range, mitigated by the ridiculous lack of recoil, meaning you don't ever have to burst fire the Locust. Even at mid-long range you can empty an entire clip full auto into someone's face. That combined with the reasonably healthy ammo count, an armour modifier and a lack of major opportunity cost, and I can certainly see why some might call it the best overall weapon.

[Thompson family]

Diehard Revenant Soldier here:



There's an argument to be made that the Mattock is better until you get enough Assault Rifle and ammo upgrades -- and that you should have enough upgrades to properly use the Revenant by the time you get to the Collector ship.



For instance, the Mattock is a Vorcha-killing machine. Take one good headshot and then a quick double or triple-tap into the upper body. No Vorcha can regenerate fast enough to survive that. And with dead Vorchas' thermal clips lying about, there's not much problem finding enough ammo.

[Freakaz0idx]

The Revenant kind of goes against the whole point of being a soldier. You can just spam it in any situation and really does get boring. Mattock compliments the other guns very well.

[OniGanon]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

The Revenant kind of goes against the whole point of being a soldier. You can just spam it in any situation and really does get boring. Mattock compliments the other guns very well.

Some would say that hitting AR and spamming Rev in any situation IS the whole point of being a Soldier...

[Thompson family]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

The Revenant kind of goes against the whole point of being a soldier. You can just spam it in any situation and really does get boring. Mattock compliments the other guns very well.

There's truth in there, but not the whole truth.

There's a notable "taming of the beast" quality to using the Revenant well, if you're willing to do more than use it as a firehose. For instance, making a headshot with a Revenant is perfectly possible. It just takes the discipline to take aim and sqeeze off only a round or two. That takes practice. So does burst fire. We don't have the gun do it for us. Revenant soldiers have to do it themselves.

So why not just use a Vindicator? Because sometimes, a firehose is useful.

Like it or not, there are often enemies that just need grinding down -- and that's a lot more boring with a gun that can't sandblast away like the Revenant: Same result, less drudgery. The mass effect core in the derelict reaper, sicons, pratorians, and masses of husks are just a few examples.

So why not use a heavy weapon? Take the mass effect core in the derelict reaper, for instance. You don't want to switch between weapons while surrounded by husks. Same goes for the passageway getting to that chamber. You can fight husks and sicons with equal effectiveness without switching.

The "whole point of being a soldier" is to complete the mission while taking as few casualties as possible. You pick the best tool, and that varies from player to player.

Besides, when some charging Krogan shouts out "Try a real man's weapon," I give him a facefull of Revenant fire. Shuts him up every time.

Modifié par Thompson family, 12 août 2010 - 08:33 .

[racerfox]

Kid_SixXx wrote...


The Mattock is very accurate but if you find yourself micromanaging your ammo count then perhaps you should position your squadies so that they can optimize their fire and generate enemy casualties rather than you running low of thermal clips due to you having to get every killshot yourself?

Pretty much.

Squad members are nowhere near reliable enough in Insanity mode (where most of us will end up playing for the need of the challenge) to not be taking the kill shots yourself.

No matter how well you place them, you cannot force them to fire their weapons at the crucial moments. And often the battles are so intense that you absolutely need to control the kills.

I love tactical shooters, but the squad members in Mass Effect are hardly top of the line examples of AI.

And I'm not micro managing my ammo. As I said, I very rarely run out of Mattock ammo. However, the knowledge that it does chew ammo causes me to consider my armoury a lot more than it does when I take the Rev. 

As I said, it's a flaw in my way of thinking more than anything. I'm just as capable as switching from the Rev as i am with any other rifle, regardless of ammo count.

[racerfox]

OniGanon wrote...

Freakaz0idx wrote...

The Revenant kind of goes against the whole point of being a soldier. You can just spam it in any situation and really does get boring. Mattock compliments the other guns very well.

Some would say that hitting AR and spamming Rev in any situation IS the whole point of being a Soldier...

The whole point of the soldier to me is to be a master of all arms.

I'm actually getting used to the Rev now after forcing myself to take it to a few of the longer missions since making this post, and to not sit back on it for extended periods.

Indeed, unloading the thing into an enemy at close range is one of the most satisfying kills I've found in game.

[termokanden]

For me that's what the choice on the Collector ship is all about. You pick the Widow if you want to be the weapons specialist that always has the right weapon for the job. You pick the Revenant if you want to be Rambo.



Both options fit the soldier.

[tmk]

 You could also pick the Revenant for being the only specialist weapon whose recoil won't shatter your arm every time you shoot it 

[lizzbee]

racerfox wrote...

 I mean, its high ammo capacity is wonderful. And once you learn to burst fire with it it can be fun. But, to me, the other rifles just feel more enjoyable to use.

The major downside I find is its main draw: its massive ammo capacity.

It's great if you're a sucky shot like me.

[termokanden]

tmk wrote...

 You could also pick the Revenant for being the only specialist weapon whose recoil won't shatter your arm every time you shoot it 

Heavy Bone Weave to the rescue. Shepard is certainly part cyborg by the end of the game. It's even funnier with a high Renegade score and no medbay fixes.

[Arhka]

termokanden wrote...

For me that's what the choice on the Collector ship is all about. You pick the Widow if you want to be the weapons specialist that always has the right weapon for the job. You pick the Revenant if you want to be Rambo.

Both options fit the soldier.

I prefer the Claymore for that. Viper can surpass the Widow in AR, and Mattock is just the icing on the cake. 

[Homebound]

For normal people who dont buy game items, Revenant is the final stop for Rifles.

Modifié par Just_mike, 13 août 2010 - 03:55 .

[tommyt_1994]

The Revenat isfun to use. This is a vidoe game is it not?Isn't being fun enough reason to love it? I admit that it isn't as effective as the mattock, and arguably the vindicator, but some people find having a bullet hose is fun. This isn't competitive online game, and insanity becomes quite easy once you've beaten it enough times. So you're not really crippling yourself by using the Revenant inseatd of the superior Mattock. This game is relatively easy either way. In the end it comes down to what people find fun.

Oh and to comment on the "not using the Rev the whole mission is hard" topic, I admit I fell to this on my first soldier playthrough. Unless something is far away, rushing forward and using the Revenant is almost always the most effective/fun play. You have to train yourself to change to other weapons. The GPS is a ton of fun to use if you cann pull yourself away from the Rev.

And, funnily, despite this whole post which would make me appear to be a die-heard Rev supporter, I haven't yet decided which weapon I'll take on the collector ship. I'll probably save before, and beat the ship with the Rev/Viper and Widow/Mattock and see which I ultimately find more fun.

Edited for corrections

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 13 août 2010 - 04:41 .