97 réponses à ce sujet

[OniGanon]

JaegerBane wrote...
I'd be more inclined to take the Mattock if the purpose is to shield strip. It's certainly not a poor choice for the task and, unlike the GPS, just requires you to have sight of your enemy - it hits more or less instantly, so range doesn't matter.

Mattock is fantastic at defense stripping, but it's a low ammo gun on a class with only 3 guns. It also requires a few shots to get the defenses down, on a class that has about the worst survivability in the game and would want to spend the least amount of time out of cover. Also,, the range where it's most comfortable to cast biotics is usually within GPS range anyway.

Most importantly though: old school Vanguard style points!

[Bozorgmehr]

OniGanon wrote...

Mattock is fantastic at defense stripping, but it's a low ammo gun on a class with only 3 guns. It also requires a few shots to get the defenses down, on a class that has about the worst survivability in the game and would want to spend the least amount of time out of cover. Also,, the range where it's most comfortable to cast biotics is usually within GPS range anyway.

Most importantly though: old school Vanguard style points!

"Worst survivability"? - What do you mean exactly? There's isn't any difference whatsoever; every class starts with 250 health and 250 shield/barrier; all classes can use the same upgrades and equipment. Only difference lies in the powers available to each class.

If you're talking about Adepts remember they're experts in controlling the battlefield and can disable multiple enemies at once. Adepts only need to walk to the enemies, take some time to aim and finish them - without even having to worry about someone fighting back.

All classes can use Barrier/GSB/Fortification which has the same shield boost as Tech Armor; providing excellent protection when needed. I use Barrier on my Adept and run around without cover pretty much all the time, tearing down everything and everyone around me and shoot the guys that somehow survived the biotic blaze. Mattock indeed is an excellent weapon for the Adept (and all other classes btw) - but Adepts can handle SG too. GPS is nice, but I prefer Claymore.

[OniGanon]

Soldiers have Adrenaline Rush to reduce damage. Infiltrators have Cloak to stop enemies targeting them. Vanguards restore their shields with Charge. Sentinel's have Tech Armour to restore shields and knock enemies away. Engineer's can send out their Drone and then spend a few seconds doing the moondance while everyone ignores them.



Adepts have Singularity to lock down one enemy.

[Bozorgmehr]

OniGanon wrote...

Soldiers have Adrenaline Rush to reduce damage. Infiltrators have Cloak to stop enemies targeting them. Vanguards restore their shields with Charge. Sentinel's have Tech Armour to restore shields and knock enemies away. Engineer's can send out their Drone and then spend a few seconds doing the moondance while everyone ignores them.

Don't see what any of this has to do with survivability - only Vanguards get some of their shields back with Charge.

Adepts have Singularity to lock down one enemy.

Singularity can lock down up to 6 enemies at once, plus Adepts are king of the Warp bomb - after getting a SG or AR Adepts can kill just as fast or even faster compared to the other classes (except Vanguard).

[khevan]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

Soldiers have Adrenaline Rush to reduce damage. Infiltrators have Cloak to stop enemies targeting them. Vanguards restore their shields with Charge. Sentinel's have Tech Armour to restore shields and knock enemies away. Engineer's can send out their Drone and then spend a few seconds doing the moondance while everyone ignores them.

Don't see what any of this has to do with survivability - only Vanguards get some of their shields back with Charge.

AR reduces damage.  Less damage means you die slower.  Dying slower means higher survivability.
Cloak keeps enemies from shooting at you for the duration.  No shooting equals no damage.  Again, more survivability.
Tech Armor makes a Sentinel a walking tank.  I've seen videos of Sentinels taking out the entire IFF mission without firing a shot or using any powers other than Tech Armor.  It's that good.

All of the above, and you can't see what this has to do with survivability?  Hmm....I realize you love biotics, but the Adepts are the squishiest class in the game, as they were in ME1 (with the exception of Engineer, but ME1 Engineer sucked, so they don't count.)

Adepts have Singularity to lock down one enemy.

Singularity can lock down up to 6 enemies at once, plus Adepts are king of the Warp bomb - after getting a SG or AR Adepts can kill just as fast or even faster compared to the other classes (except Vanguard).

Singularity can lock down 6 enemies if they have no protection.  On insanity, it's RARE to have 6 vulnerable enemies in range of a Singularity.  Singularity will really only lock down one enemy with protection.  It works well in choke points and what-not, but it really doesn't add to survivability of the Adept except in certain places, whereas the above mentioned powers work anywhere.

Modifié par khevan, 14 août 2010 - 10:07 .

[JaegerBane]

OniGanon wrote...

Soldiers have Adrenaline Rush to reduce damage. Infiltrators have Cloak to stop enemies targeting them. Vanguards restore their shields with Charge. Sentinel's have Tech Armour to restore shields and knock enemies away. Engineer's can send out their Drone and then spend a few seconds doing the moondance while everyone ignores them.

Adepts have Singularity to lock down one enemy.

I'm not sure survivability and damage mitigation are the same thing.

Both Engineers and Adepts are casters and hence prefer to lock down enemies rather than absorb shots. While Drone has a slight advantage in number of enemies it can lock away, Singularity is virtually 100% reliable and recharges in about the same amount of time it takes to reach for the key to use it with full upgrades.

Krogan have a nasty habit of ignoring drones and slamming shotgun-first into moondancing shepards, after all.

That said... Adepts really need to take Barrier if they're going to be anything more than cowering at the back throwing Warps.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 14 août 2010 - 10:15 .

[JaegerBane]

khevan wrote...
 It works well in choke points and what-not, but it really doesn't add to survivability of the Adept except in certain places, whereas the above mentioned powers work anywhere.

This is one of the things that annoys me about the class balance in the game.

Whoever on the design team thought that giving some classes what are effectively one-size-fits-all super powers like AR and cloak, which work no matter what, and other classes casting powers which sometimes work and sometimes don't (assuming a vulnerable target presents itself) needs to take a Sabbatical in Blizzard to learn a thing or two about balance.

If Singularity was it's ME1 incarnantion I could understand it... but let's face it, Singularity vs a 3 second recharge bullet-time that boosts accuracy, damage and armour to boot? Please... there's no way anyone honestly thought that was balanced... No wonder Adepts are getting an upgrade...

Modifié par JaegerBane, 14 août 2010 - 10:16 .

[Bozorgmehr]

AR and Cloak do nothing to an enemy - it only helps Shep (aim, more damage etc) - Singularity and Drones are offensive powers and they'll increase survivability - if they don't fire; you're not getting hurt.



Tech Armor isn't that good; Assault Armor is, but it offers less protection than Heavy Barrier/GSB - it will knock down enemies and, more importantly, recharges some of Shep's shield. I think I saw the same vid you're mentioning Khevan.



AR and Cloak are great powers, but both Soldier and Infiltrator lack versatility, they'll just spam their unique power; not to mention their other powers suck (Ammo powers are not that useful and you can bring squadies; though I do love Cryo Ammo)



I believe ME2 is reasonably balanced, it's just easier to play effectively with Soldier (just shoot everything in bullet time) - but I think its much more enjoyable to play with the non-combatants classes and once you know how to use all of their powers effectively - you'll be a beast on the battlefield.

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
I believe ME2 is reasonably balanced, it's just easier to play effectively with Soldier (just shoot everything in bullet time) - but I think its much more enjoyable to play with the non-combatants classes and once you know how to use all of their powers effectively - you'll be a beast on the battlefield.

I've played too much Starcraft 2. I wantz myself a psychic sniper ninja.

I'm thinking Infiltrator with Warp Ammo, Slam and Reave for my next playthrough

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

If Singularity was it's ME1 incarnantion I could understand it... but let's face it, Singularity vs a 3 second recharge bullet-time that boosts accuracy, damage and armour to boot? Please... there's no way anyone honestly thought that was balanced... No wonder Adepts are getting an upgrade...

Which upgrade exactly are we talking about? Any information about this yet?

[Bozorgmehr]

Dunno, the devs mentioned something like this - guess we'll have to wait and see. I consider the Adept to be powerful enough already, but upgrades are always a good thing.

[tmk]

termokanden wrote...
Which upgrade exactly are we talking about? Any information about this yet?

Christina Norman mentioned on her twitter that she can't wait for LotSB to be released so she could start her Adept insanity playthrough. So people are speculating that it could mean some sort of Adept-related changes in the DLC. Or it could just mean that she wants to do an Adept insanity playthrough, but is too busy working on LotSB to do it.

Of course I'm not sure why the Lead Gameplay Designer for ME2 would need to wait for the official DLC release to start whatever playthrough she feels like doing, so it's not like it makes much sense to begin with...

Modifié par tmk, 15 août 2010 - 05:36 .

[termokanden]

Wild speculation then



I'll be trying LotSB in any case. Just wish we had a higher level cap with all this content.

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...

Wild speculation then

I'll be trying LotSB in any case. Just wish we had a higher level cap with all this content.

Yeah, it's a myth based on conjecture.

Still, since I'm playing another game at the mo, I might as well cling to the hope of an upgrade to give me a reason to halt my next Adept playthrough

I'm somewhat in the same boat as bozorgmehr, though - at least up until Veteran, I don't honestly feel the Adept needs an upgrade. Not my modded one packing Mattocks, Scimitars and Widows, anyway, but an upgrade would be nice

Modifié par JaegerBane, 15 août 2010 - 08:54 .

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

Yeah, it's a myth based on conjecture.

Still, since I'm playing another game at the mo, I might as well cling to the hope of an upgrade to give me a reason to halt my next Adept playthrough

I'm somewhat in the same boat as bozorgmehr, though - at least up until Veteran, I don't honestly feel the Adept needs an upgrade. Not my modded one packing Mattocks, Scimitars and Widows, anyway, but an upgrade would be nice

I think Adepts could use biotic upgrade (Singularity should be more powerful), but what do you need so much firepower for? I have one Viper SR Adept and  one shotgun (Evi, GPS) Adept and I never felt like using Widow/Revenant/Mattock is gonna help me further at all

Modifié par Kronner, 15 août 2010 - 08:59 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

I think Adepts could use biotic upgrade (Singularity should be more powerful), but what do you need so much firepower for? I have one Viper SR Adept and  one shotgun (Evi, GPS) Adept and I never felt like using Widow/Revenant/Mattock is gonna help me further at all

I use 3 weapons max, so I don't have to pause the game to switch. Switching weapons is pretty time consuming, don't like doing it a lot during a fight. I can understand why JaegerBane carries all weapons, so no need to change it every mission or so.

My favourite setup is long/medium range weapon and a SG for close combat, used to be Viper for long range, but Mattock is great too (miss stunning effect Viper though) - Claymore for up close. I never use the other weapons with this setup, not even when playing solo.

[tmk]

Personally, one thing I'd love to see implemented would be some sort of Shockwave-related combo. Maybe some sort of warp-style detonation when the target is hit with two Shockwaves in quick succession. Could give Jack a boost...



But it's getting off-topic here...

[Bozorgmehr]

tmk wrote...

Personally, one thing I'd love to see implemented would be some sort of Shockwave-related combo. Maybe some sort of warp-style detonation when the target is hit with two Shockwaves in quick succession. Could give Jack a boost...

But it's getting off-topic here...

If you use Shockwave on ragdolled enemies (Singularity) - they will be sent into orbit. Very cool to watch and one of the most effective attacks up to Veteran level. Shockwave is not that useful on Insanity though.

[Athenau]

AR and Cloak are great powers, but both Soldier and Infiltrator lack versatility, they'll just spam their unique power; not to mention their other powers suck (Ammo powers are not that useful and you can bring squadies; though I do love Cryo Ammo)

You don't really need dedicated crowd control when you can slowmo shoot everyone in the face. Cloak and AR give you a lot of options in how you want to approach a fight, and having all weapons gives the soldier tremendous versatility.

[termokanden]

Yeah, that's what I found missing on my other characters after playing soldier. I can't just switch to shotguns, can't switch to sniper rifles, can't switch to assault rifles. I don't count modding the game here.



As for adepts, I'm not sure why they'd need an upgrade. Isn't it particularly good on insanity that Singularity works through protections and sets up Warp explosions as well? I always thought that's what makes adepts good. Never actually played one on insanity though. But for my engineer on insanity, all I needed was to lock down the most dangerous enemy and the rest was pretty easy.

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...
I think Adepts could use biotic upgrade
(Singularity should be more powerful), but what do you need so much
firepower for?

Because I like having all those guns?

Seriously though, having a Mattock and a Widow to hand really allows you to smash targets that are too far away to practically deal with biotics. Makes the Adept feel a lot more flexible.

termokanden wrote...
As for adepts, I'm not sure why they'd need an upgrade. Isn't it particularly good on insanity that Singularity works through protections and sets up Warp explosions as well? I always thought that's what makes adepts good. Never actually played one on insanity though. But for my engineer on insanity, all I needed was to lock down the most dangerous enemy and the rest was pretty easy.

If it set off Warp Explosions while defences were still up, I think that would solve a lot of balance arguments.

I mean, you'd still have to set up the combo... and compared to stuff like AR setting off huge explosions isn't that OP

[Bozorgmehr]

Athenau wrote...

You don't really need dedicated crowd control when you can slowmo shoot everyone in the face. Cloak and AR give you a lot of options in how you want to approach a fight, and having all weapons gives the soldier tremendous versatility.

What I meant with versatility is using different powers/abilities/combos etc. Adepts can use multiple superb powers, Soldiers/Infiltrators/Vanguards just spam one (very powerful) power and using a different power is almost always a worse option compared to using the unique ability. Adepts spamming Singularities are fools - Adepts using all powers in the right circumstances are very deadly.

Having more guns is great, though switching will waste precious time. When I play soldier I only use SR once or twice, using SG when reaching enemy ranks (pretty fast with AR). Adepts (Sentinels and Engineers) can use all guns except one, after Collector ship - just/almost on par with combat classes. I believe combat classes are having an advantage early game due to better weapon selection (though Locust is an excellent alround killing machine) - casters catch up on Collector ship, providing a huge increase in firepower on top of their other skills.

Playing one of the caster classes provides better and/or more enjoyable character development - you're really getting more and more powerful (in the (fire)power department(s)) - combat classes are somewhat lacking. Sure, they get better guns along the way, but it more or less makes up for enemy health and defense bonusses (Mantis can 1S1K early game, but you'll need Widow to do the same later.

JaegerBane wrote...

If it set off Warp Explosions while defences were still up, I think that would solve a lot of balance arguments.

I mean, you'd still have to set up the combo... and compared to stuff like AR setting off huge explosions isn't that OP [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Singularityis good defense stripper. One Singularity, used against a normal enemy, will remove defenses completely. Use it, ignore the target(s) and focus on the other guys. When you hear enemies are starting to scream, turn around and Warp 'm [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 16 août 2010 - 10:12 .

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Singularityis good defense stripper. One Singularity, used against a normal enemy, will remove defenses completely. Use it, ignore the target(s) and focus on the other guys. When you hear enemies are starting to scream, turn around and Warp 'm [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Good on Normal, perhaps... I didn't think too much of it on Insanity for defence stripping. Locust was much better