233 réponses à ce sujet

[FedericoV]

tmp7704 wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Do you really believe that with a short development cycle like DA2's one, they'll have the time to develop two completely different gameplay system for the two platform? Knowing that isometric view won't be in the pc version too? Do you understand that a different gameplay would ask them to rework each and every battle in the game? That it would costs BW a lot of money with little reward considering DA:O's sales on PC? 

Well, considering they wouldn't need to "develop two completely different systems" but rather leave the PC version the way it is and focus on changing the console version, it may be less difficult to pull off than you make it sound.

They point is that they would be two completely different games in terms of content. As I've said, they should rework each and every battle in the game: a battle that work in an action RPG like The Witcher or Kotor would not work with the tactical setting of DA:O. Not to talk about the settings of the battles: they should adjust them too. Economically and from a development point of view, it would not make any sense.

Also, i don't exactly get the hate towards this development.

No hate. I like action rpgs too if done well (even if I prefer tactical ones). But honestly I do not like the fact that the devs are turning around that issue and joking with their customer with vague description of gameplay and assurances that the PC version will hold its tactical vibe when clearly it would not be so from what they have stated so far (no iso view, press x to basic attack). Since they are confident that's the right move to do for the franchise, they should admit it so we could accept it and move on talking about other features of the game.

So console users press a button to have their character execute attack. Considering the DAO also has the player press button(s) to execute the special attacks and they do it frequently (unless you just like to leave everything up to the tactics) ... there doesn't seem to be much of practical difference, there.

For my tastes, DA:O's have too much button mashing for its supposed tactical approach. But pressing buttons even for DA:O's autoattack is a radical change in gameplay. If I remember well, even in Kotor that was a straight action game there was auto-attack...

Modifié par FedericoV, 12 août 2010 - 12:15 .

[Legbiter]

Ah, DA:O is the last of it's kind then. An end of an era that. Not better or worse mind you, just...different.



Still, it's Bioware so the story should be half-decent at least.

[tmp7704]

andar91 wrote...

The skills were assigned to controller buttons, but they had cooldowns and everything.  It wasn't like XXX equaled attack, attack, attack.  But we know that the abilities are the same in DA2 (in regards to cooldowns and that they're seperate, activated attacks) based on what we know so far (on the consoles).

Yes, but between relatively short cooldowns on most of abilities and 4 different characters to switch between, was there much time spent playing the game when the player wasn't pressing some button to trigger the attack? People are getting wrapped up in the XXXXX thing, as if it suddenly all these other more powerful and useful alternatives available under other buttons cease to exist...

[Arthur Cousland]

Interesting info.



I'm interested to see how this all works out in the end. Hopefully it's not too action based, because the tactical system is what I really liked about the DA:O, and yes I play on xbox 360. Most console rpgs feature plenty of action in combat, and the one that was different now has to go and be like everyone else.



I'm also interested to see how the appearance of our DA:O warden takes place. Will they be wearing the same gear that they had at the end of Origins? Will I be able to have a conversation with them? Will I get to see them fighting, or recruit them as a party member, whether temporary or permanent? Also, who from Origins will be making appearances?

[filetemo]

tmp7704 wrote...
People are getting wrapped up in the XXXXX thing, as if it suddenly all these other more powerful and useful alternatives available under other buttons cease to exist...

if you give a casual player the option to mash X button, he won't learn anything else, like setting tactics or combining spells

Modifié par filetemo, 12 août 2010 - 12:16 .

[joriandrake]

Legbiter wrote...

Ah, DA:O is the last of it's kind then. An end of an era that. Not better or worse mind you, just...different.

Still, it's Bioware so the story should be half-decent at least.

Well, it ain't Sonic thats for sure

[DaringMoosejaw]

andar91 wrote...

O.O I can't believe you just said that.

Oh, I'm sure he's very proud of himself.

[andar91]

tmp7704 wrote...

andar91 wrote...

The skills were assigned to controller buttons, but they had cooldowns and everything.  It wasn't like XXX equaled attack, attack, attack.  But we know that the abilities are the same in DA2 (in regards to cooldowns and that they're seperate, activated attacks) based on what we know so far (on the consoles).

Yes, but between relatively short cooldowns on most of abilities and 4 different characters to switch between, was there much time spent playing the game when the player wasn't pressing some button to trigger the attack? People are getting wrapped up in the XXXXX thing, as if it suddenly all these other more powerful and useful alternatives available under other buttons cease to exist...

Yeah, I agree with you.  I was just pointing out the difference in case you hadn't played the console version.  I think it's a smart move for the console.  For the PC, I hope they keep it the same, but like I said before, it isn't anywhere near a game-breaker for me.

[SDNcN]

andar91 wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

So because they revealed that basic melee attacks would be bound to the X button on Xbox versions, combat will amount to spamming the X button, even though X is just a basic melee attack? Fantastic use of logic.

Well, I don't think we know for sure that it's only on the consoles, but I agree with your other point.  And I SUSPECT it's only on the consoles.

Even if it isn't, the use of tactics wouldn't suddenly be rendered obsolete by it.
If I remember correctly pausing and controlling party members will be avaliable in all versions. Origins already lacked an ability queue, I'd imagine unless they've developed an easier method for ordering party members mid combat, switching to different characters and pulling off a few spells or abilites won't be too different.

Modifié par SDNcN, 12 août 2010 - 12:17 .

[filetemo]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

andar91 wrote...

O.O I can't believe you just said that.

Oh, I'm sure he's very proud of himself.

paragon option: ****** together
renegade option: ****** alone and go to sleep

[joriandrake]

filetemo wrote...

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

andar91 wrote...

O.O I can't believe you just said that.

Oh, I'm sure he's very proud of himself.

paragon option: ****** together
renegade option: ****** alone and go to sleep

rofl

[filetemo]

you fereldans are so finicky!

[andar91]

filetemo wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
People are getting wrapped up in the XXXXX thing, as if it suddenly all these other more powerful and useful alternatives available under other buttons cease to exist...

if you give a casual player the option to mash X button, he won't learn anything else, like setting tactics or combining spells

I think that's a bit of (a huge) exaggeration.  I can't imagine anyone would prefer a basic attack over a special attack all of the time.  Not to mention, that's extremely insulting towards console players; it isn't as if they have no brains.

[andar91]

SDNcN wrote...

andar91 wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

So because they revealed that basic melee attacks would be bound to the X button on Xbox versions, combat will amount to spamming the X button, even though X is just a basic melee attack? Fantastic use of logic.

Well, I don't think we know for sure that it's only on the consoles, but I agree with your other point.  And I SUSPECT it's only on the consoles.

Even if it isn't, the use of tactics wouldn't suddenly be rendered obsolete by it.
If I remember correctly pausing and controlling party members will be avaliable in all versions. Origins already lacked an ability queue, I'd imagine unless they've developed an easier method for ordering party members mid combat, switching to different characters and pulling off a few spells or abilites won't be too different.

Mike Laidlaw said something in a post about looking at new types of party control but we don't know what he meant.
Edit: I share your opinions on the other points.

Modifié par andar91, 12 août 2010 - 12:21 .

[joriandrake]

andar91 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
People are getting wrapped up in the XXXXX thing, as if it suddenly all these other more powerful and useful alternatives available under other buttons cease to exist...

if you give a casual player the option to mash X button, he won't learn anything else, like setting tactics or combining spells

I think that's a bit of (a huge) exaggeration.  I can't imagine anyone would prefer a basic attack over a special attack all of the time.  Not to mention, that's extremely insulting towards console players; it isn't as if they have no brains.

I think it is more insulting if Bioware actually removes all traces of tactical game for the console

[tmp7704]

FedericoV wrote...

They point is that they would be two completely different games in terms of content. As I've said, they should rework each and every battle in the game: a battle that work in an action RPG like The Witcher or Kotor would not work with the tactical setting of DA:O. Not to talk about the settings of the battles: they should adjust them too. Economically and from a development point of view, it would not make any sense.

The logical alternative to this would be, this particular modification to gameplay system has such minor (if any) impact on overall state of things compared to the DAO model, it doesn't actually require changes of this sort.

For my tastes, DA:O's have too much button mashing for its supposed tactical approach. But pressing buttons even for DA:O's autoattack is a radical change in gameplay. If I remember well, even in Kotor that was a straight action games there was auto-attack...

As far as i can tell, the article only says that X button activates an attack. That it is auto attack rather than some ability and that it has to be pressed to have the character auto-attack, these seem to be conjectures at this point. It may be useful to wait and see if we can get more actual info regarding that.

[andar91]

joriandrake wrote...

andar91 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
People are getting wrapped up in the XXXXX thing, as if it suddenly all these other more powerful and useful alternatives available under other buttons cease to exist...

if you give a casual player the option to mash X button, he won't learn anything else, like setting tactics or combining spells

I think that's a bit of (a huge) exaggeration.  I can't imagine anyone would prefer a basic attack over a special attack all of the time.  Not to mention, that's extremely insulting towards console players; it isn't as if they have no brains.

I think it is more insulting if Bioware actually removes all traces of tactical game for the console

Absolutely.  But we know that they can use tactics, issue commands to companions, and perform abilities such as Fireball or Shield Bash or whatever that are different than the standard attack.  Sounds about as tactical as the first console version was to me.

[Kritanakom]

ENCHANTMENT

[rexil]

joriandrake wrote...

I

andar91 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
People are getting wrapped up in the XXXXX thing, as if it suddenly all these other more powerful and useful alternatives available under other buttons cease to exist...

if you give a casual player the option to mash X button, he won't learn anything else, like setting tactics or combining spells

I think that's a bit of (a huge) exaggeration.  I can't imagine anyone would prefer a basic attack over a special attack all of the time.  Not to mention, that's extremely insulting towards console players; it isn't as if they have no brains.

I think it is more insulting if Bioware actually removes all traces of tactical game for the console

Press A to badass.
I still think the button mash should be a feature of easier difficulties and a more tactical play for higher difficulties.
IF there will really be any button mashing. 

[FedericoV]

tmp7704 wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

They point is that they would be two completely different games in terms of content. As I've said, they should rework each and every battle in the game: a battle that work in an action RPG like The Witcher or Kotor would not work with the tactical setting of DA:O. Not to talk about the settings of the battles: they should adjust them too. Economically and from a development point of view, it would not make any sense.

The logical alternative to this would be, this particular modification to gameplay system has such minor (if any) impact on overall state of things compared to the DAO model, it doesn't actually require changes of this sort.

I respect your opinion and I could be wrong, but if I add that info with the removal of the iso view (that is not needed for PC too) I think that there is not a lot to talk about. I'm pretty sure that the differences between PC and consolle will be mostly cosmetic. We'll see.

For my tastes, DA:O's have too much button mashing for its supposed tactical approach. But pressing buttons even for DA:O's autoattack is a radical change in gameplay. If I remember well, even in Kotor that was a straight action games there was auto-attack...

As far as i can tell, the article only says that X button activates an attack. That it is auto attack rather than some ability and that it has to be pressed to have the character auto-attack, these seem to be conjectures at this point. It may be useful to wait and see if we can get more actual info regarding that.

No, the article states clearly that for each action you'll have to push a button. I would like too some kind of feedback on that issue but honestly... at that point I'm only waiting for an actual gameplay video coverage.

PS: Quote from the OP. "The decision to allow melee attacks to be activated by continually
striking X is an inspired decision too, in spite of how derivative some
may claim it is... the power to be responsible for each and every blow
is much more satisfying."

Modifié par FedericoV, 12 août 2010 - 12:38 .

[UberDuber]

- When you're not using them, the rest of your companions won't just sit around at camp. When they're not with you other things are happening.





Hmm... very interesting...so there is a party camp after all!

[tmp7704]

FedericoV wrote...

No, the article states clearly that for each action you'll have to push a button. I would like too some kind of feedback on that issue but honestly... at that point I'm only waiting for an actual gameplay video coverage.

PS: Quote from the OP. "The decision to allow melee attacks to be activated by continually
striking X is an inspired decision too, in spite of how derivative some
may claim it is... the power to be responsible for each and every blow
is much more satisfying."

Well, it says "allow" rather than "require" so i still wouldn't mind a clarification. A requirement could potentially feel odd if it resulted in something like character going entirely limp the moment you switch to them in combat and then just sitting there like a dummy geting whacked on by the bad guys if you don't tell them to do something because they no longer auto-attack on their own.

edit: that said, if it turns out there is actual requirement to hit a key to trigger basic attacks, can't say it'd exactly bother me. It worked decently both in the pointed out Witcher and in Alpha Protocol to name more recent title and it does create feeling of having more control over the character, which can be welcome effect. Heck, or even BioWare's own Jade Empire.

Modifié par tmp7704, 12 août 2010 - 12:58 .

[Rubbish Hero]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

Still waiting for some PC news...

Back to there roots got dropped as soon as dollar signs were flapping in the wind.
You will hear very little pc news and all review copies sent out to the gaming media will be the console version because thats what they want you to buy. Game over.