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This is what bioware seems to want


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#501
Itkovian

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Khavos wrote...

Itkovian wrote...
The Game Informer article does mention those elements, or mention other elements that could not exist without those on this list still existing.

Itkovian


It doesn't, actually.


The the scans I saw must have been of some other article then. :)

At the very least, classes and talents are clearly mentionned, which in and of itself implies levels. Tactical combat is clearly mentioned for the PC, the tactics system is remaining (dev quote on this forum, no less). We know the main PC will have most customisation options aside from origin and race selection. Inventory is confirmed (and really, that's about the last thing that would go, even Diablo has inventory).

About the only thing I can't think of that is mentionned or clearly implied somewhere is stats and skills.

Itkovian

#502
Itkovian

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Khavos wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

That said, concerning DA2, no one has ever mentioned reducing or "dumbing" down basic RPG elements except for the greater restriction on character creation. And on a practical level the only restriction is that there will be only 1 origin, and you must be human.


They never came out and said they were gutting ME2 of the vast majority of its RPG elements, either. 


Oh yes they did, though they certainly didn't call it "gutting RPG elements".

All of it in fact, with blog entries and dev videos. classes and abilities were fully detailed before release, the inventory system was completely revealed. The fact you gain XP only at the end of missions was revealed. The fact that player skills only determined shooting ability was revealed very early on, for that matter.

I certainly knew about all that before I got the game on release day.

About the only thing they didn't reveal was how mind-numbingly boring scanning was. :)

Not that I expect everyone to completely scour a game's forum and website before making a purchase, but the fact is that Bioware was very transparent concerning the major changes they did in ME2. I certainly hope, of course, that they are equally honest concerning DA2 (and given that they have so far focused their marketing effort on the more controversial changes, I am quite pleased).

Itkovian

#503
maxernst

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BlackyBlack wrote...

Proposition_Joe wrote...

fast paced hack & slash game, simple to get into and simple to forget...

Are you suggesting God of War, Diablo and Devil May Cry are forgettable titles ?

They've sold more than any BioWare game so far


What does sales have to do with how memorable something is?  I haven't played the other two, but for me, Diablo is definitely forgettable.  I mean, I remember playing it, but do I have vivid memories of particular things that happened in it?  Maybe a couple, but certainly not as many as I do of Planescape: Torment, Dragon Age.  Or games like Grim Fandango and Sanitarium.

Have you seen the sheer volume of fan-fiction that has been produced about Dragon Age?  That's a clear indicator to me of a game that people continue to think about after they've stopped playing.  That means it's memorable, not the fact that they bought it.  People buy lots of things and forget about them later.

#504
Heavenblade

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You know what I would love?



I would love to play a BioWare VN. Pure storytelling and character design at work with only a basic gameplay interface to advance the game/make choices/review information. Something in the vein of Phoenix Wright (A VN that is most known by westerners.) I say go for it BioWare: Get rid of all the "musts" and go for a pure storytelling experience.



The rage on the forums would be worth it alone.


#505
BlackyBlack

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maxernst wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Proposition_Joe wrote...

fast paced hack & slash game, simple to get into and simple to forget...

Are you suggesting God of War, Diablo and Devil May Cry are forgettable titles ?

They've sold more than any BioWare game so far


What does sales have to do with how memorable something is?  I haven't played the other two, but for me, Diablo is definitely forgettable.  I mean, I remember playing it, but do I have vivid memories of particular things that happened in it?  Maybe a couple, but certainly not as many as I do of Planescape: Torment, Dragon Age.  Or games like Grim Fandango and Sanitarium.

Keyword highlighted. I personaly loathe  Diablo, but it's the majority disagrees. God of War and DMC are best selling titles 'cos the majority loves games like that and for the majority they aren't forgettable, but for YOU they might be

Same goes with ME2. A vocal minority b!tch about it, but the majority prefers it over ME1.

And BioWare makes what the majority wants 'cos they want to make money

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 13 août 2010 - 01:43 .


#506
maxernst

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BlackyBlack wrote...

maxernst wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Proposition_Joe wrote...

fast paced hack & slash game, simple to get into and simple to forget...

Are you suggesting God of War, Diablo and Devil May Cry are forgettable titles ?

They've sold more than any BioWare game so far


What does sales have to do with how memorable something is?  I haven't played the other two, but for me, Diablo is definitely forgettable.  I mean, I remember playing it, but do I have vivid memories of particular things that happened in it?  Maybe a couple, but certainly not as many as I do of Planescape: Torment, Dragon Age.  Or games like Grim Fandango and Sanitarium.

Keyword highlighted. I personaly loathe  Diablo, but it's the majority disagrees. God of War and DMC are best selling titles 'cos the majority loves games like that and for the majority they aren't forgettable, but for YOU they might be

Same goes with ME2. A vocal minority b!tch about it, but the majority prefers it over ME1.

And BioWare makes what the majority wants 'cos they want to make money


But again, memorable has little to do with liking something.  You can remember something because you hated it.

#507
Khavos

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BlackyBlack wrote...
Same goes with ME2. A vocal minority b!tch about it, but the majority prefers it over ME1.


What evidence do you have to support that claim, out of curiosity? 

#508
BlackyBlack

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Khavos wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Same goes with ME2. A vocal minority b!tch about it, but the majority prefers it over ME1.

What evidence do you have to support that claim, out of curiosity? 

http://social.bioware.com/5596/polls/1670/
http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/
http://social.biowar...596/polls/4081/

GameSpot User Scores:
ME1: 9.1 360, 8.9 PC
ME2: 9.4 360, 9.2 PC
(you can also check out other sites if you want, in every last one ME2 has a higher user score)

Sales

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 13 août 2010 - 02:00 .


#509
Itkovian

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Khavos wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...
Same goes with ME2. A vocal minority b!tch about it, but the majority prefers it over ME1.


What evidence do you have to support that claim, out of curiosity? 


Well, there would be the widespread critical acclaim it earned, its phenomenally high sales.

By all accounts, ME2 was a much more successful game than ME1, and appealed to a larger audience.

To be fair, that's not all due to its "streamlining". The fact is that ME2 greatly improved the major innovative feature introduced in ME1: the cinematic dialogue. Regardless of how action-oriented ME2 was compared to ME1, the fact remain that the "acting" and "directing" in ME2 was far superior.

In that area, at least, ME2 undisputably unleashed its full potential.

Itkovian

#510
Novadove

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no wonder dragon age 2 is degrading so much, because it has to be simplified to suit the majority of the forum people here or else people wouldn't know how to play.



i will stress again these:



1) did anyone complain DAO graphics, mechanism, character design, world design sucks, so much so that bioware HAS TO change the design?



2) what is the notion of adding a pair of horns on the qunari has anything to do with the world other than setting a 5 sec impression to players indicating "oh, soooooo that's why qunari grow horns!" ??



3) Changes is great. Designs by nature Should be innovative. BUT again, what's wrong with DAO that deserves a change? EVEN IF DAO deserves a change because bioware felt compelled to,

shouldn't bioware make changes according to what people complains about DAO?



now, i want to talk about why i love DAO



1) among so many fantasy themed RPG, MMORPG, adventure, whatever you call it here, DAO has the highest realism that matches many people's expectation of what a true medievel world setting is. This realism is what propells us past the "always brownish" armor mentality and plays on. Fueled by "knowing that there is a great story ahead", it makes the game so fun. It is because people can relate to the world setting and not the addition of qunari.



2) Designs. Aion has better armor design than DA2. or would you play DA2 with your character wearing Aion armor? Console rpg characters never changes clothes. Yet people plays on.

Most people still play Lightning till the end even tho she never showers. So who cares if qunari grows horns. Unless bioware is planning to tell me, qunari grows horns because they were evolved from arch demons. Even so, does that make an impact to you to the point that you refuse to equip spellward necklace on him?



3) About owning character, by real life LEGALITY, we do not own the creation because he or she belongs to bioware, period.

BUT for gamers, we plays a character and spiritually assumes we are the character because that is what role playing is about. Those people who said they should "owned" the game character means they want to temporary assumes the identity of the said game character. The pride of building that character comes from i) gathering items, ii) great solid story progression, iii) sense of achievement.



i cant believe i have to explain this simple concept to people who doesnt understand.

The problem is everyone just keep talking about their own opinion and in the end, failed to state a fair, partial opinion. They are so blinded by their own ego that they dont care what people says.



Even tho i complain so much, i will still buy DA2, not because it is awesome, but because the credit came from DAO, its predecessor; an origin so successul that i want to try out DA2.

However, none of the reason is because bioware has EVOLVED the game to a greater height.






#511
sanadawarrior

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Khavos wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...
Same goes with ME2. A vocal minority b!tch about it, but the majority prefers it over ME1.


What evidence do you have to support that claim, out of curiosity? 


Probably because everywhere you go other than these forums people love ME2. Case in point, on the Red Dead Redemption gamefaqs forums, people asked if it was going to win GOTY. More people said Mass Effect 2 deserved it.

http://www.gamefaqs....mption/55065978

#512
Khavos

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Itkovian wrote...

Well, there would be the widespread critical acclaim it earned, its phenomenally high sales.

By all accounts, ME2 was a much more successful game than ME1, and appealed to a larger audience.

To be fair, that's not all due to its "streamlining". The fact is that ME2 greatly improved the major innovative feature introduced in ME1: the cinematic dialogue. Regardless of how action-oriented ME2 was compared to ME1, the fact remain that the "acting" and "directing" in ME2 was far superior.

In that area, at least, ME2 undisputably unleashed its full potential.

Itkovian


Most EA games tend to get pretty good reviews.

Also, ME2 sales don't, I think, qualify as phenomenally high.  DA:O has outsold it thus far, after all.  

#513
Khavos

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sanadawarrior wrote...
Probably because everywhere you go other than these forums people love ME2. Case in point, on the Red Dead Redemption gamefaqs forums, people asked if it was going to win GOTY. More people said Mass Effect 2 deserved it.

http://www.gamefaqs....mption/55065978


And here I thought you were just going to produce some anecdotal evidence.  

#514
Novadove

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i think blackyblack's sales link clearly answered this thread.

It is clear that bioware wants DA2 to be like ME2 so that it can reach a better sales figure of selling another 200,000 copies more.

Modifié par Novadove, 13 août 2010 - 02:18 .


#515
BlackyBlack

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Khavos wrote...

Also, ME2 sales don't, I think, qualify as phenomenally high.  DA:O has outsold it thus far, after all.

DAO was released on 3 different systems and has been out for nearly a year, while ME2 was released on 2 systems and out 6 months. Even so:

Posted Image

And don't forget devs said DAO sold more on consoles

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 13 août 2010 - 02:20 .


#516
sanadawarrior

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Khavos wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Well, there would be the widespread critical acclaim it earned, its phenomenally high sales.

By all accounts, ME2 was a much more successful game than ME1, and appealed to a larger audience.

To be fair, that's not all due to its "streamlining". The fact is that ME2 greatly improved the major innovative feature introduced in ME1: the cinematic dialogue. Regardless of how action-oriented ME2 was compared to ME1, the fact remain that the "acting" and "directing" in ME2 was far superior.

In that area, at least, ME2 undisputably unleashed its full potential.

Itkovian


Most EA games tend to get pretty good reviews.

Also, ME2 sales don't, I think, qualify as phenomenally high.  DA:O has outsold it thus far, after all.  


I'm sorry you can't grasp the possible difference in sales that a pre Christmas vs. a January release can have on games. This is also without taking into account the fact that alot of games where moved into spring (to get out of Modern Warfare 2's way), making it one of the most packed and competetive quarters of any year, there was a big new release almost every week for 3 months...

#517
Khavos

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BlackyBlack wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Also, ME2 sales don't, I think, qualify as phenomenally high.  DA:O has outsold it thus far, after all.

DAO was released on 3 different systems and has been out for nearly a year, while ME2 was released on 2 systems and out 6 months. Even so:

Posted Image

And don't forget devs said DAO sold more on consoles


Devs also said less than a month ago that DA:O was Bioware's best-selling game.  Ever.  

DA:O sold unquestionably more on consoles than it did on the PC, but I'm fairly sure the PC sales numbers for DA:O are well above ME2's, which is what I think makes up the difference.  There is, of course, PS3 sales in there as well.  Pretty sure vgchartz has 'em all.  

#518
sanadawarrior

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Khavos wrote...

sanadawarrior wrote...
Probably because everywhere you go other than these forums people love ME2. Case in point, on the Red Dead Redemption gamefaqs forums, people asked if it was going to win GOTY. More people said Mass Effect 2 deserved it.

http://www.gamefaqs....mption/55065978


And here I thought you were just going to produce some anecdotal evidence.  


Just saying, most of the people that I find disliked this game are here.

#519
Novadove

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please do not compare diablo1 or 2 to all these.

Try compare the sales figure of diablo 3 to ME series and DA series later.

#520
sanadawarrior

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Khavos wrote...

BlackyBlack wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Also, ME2 sales don't, I think, qualify as phenomenally high.  DA:O has outsold it thus far, after all.

DAO was released on 3 different systems and has been out for nearly a year, while ME2 was released on 2 systems and out 6 months. Even so:

Posted Image

And don't forget devs said DAO sold more on consoles


Devs also said less than a month ago that DA:O was Bioware's best-selling game.  Ever.  

DA:O sold unquestionably more on consoles than it did on the PC, but I'm fairly sure the PC sales numbers for DA:O are well above ME2's, which is what I think makes up the difference.  There is, of course, PS3 sales in there as well.  Pretty sure vgchartz has 'em all.  


Can you link that please, if it is the same on that was being linked a month ago you are mistating what was said. They claim AT RELEASE Dragon Age was their most succesful game, and as we know ME2 was not out in November of last year.

#521
Khavos

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sanadawarrior wrote...
I'm sorry you can't grasp the possible difference in sales that a pre Christmas vs. a January release can have on games. This is also without taking into account the fact that alot of games where moved into spring (to get out of Modern Warfare 2's way), making it one of the most packed and competetive quarters of any year, there was a big new release almost every week for 3 months...


I'm arguing with other people about sales.  You're supposed to be linking me to random forum posts as incontrovertable proof that the majority prefered ME2 to ME1.  

#522
sanadawarrior

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Khavos wrote...

sanadawarrior wrote...
I'm sorry you can't grasp the possible difference in sales that a pre Christmas vs. a January release can have on games. This is also without taking into account the fact that alot of games where moved into spring (to get out of Modern Warfare 2's way), making it one of the most packed and competetive quarters of any year, there was a big new release almost every week for 3 months...


I'm arguing with other people about sales.  You're supposed to be linking me to random forum posts as incontrovertable proof that the majority prefered ME2 to ME1.  


Couldn't argue my points?

#523
Lidieh

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... ... ... I hate to interrupt this ridiculously loooong debate here, but... who cares what they intend to do?

Don't like it? Don't buy it.

They won't do it again.

Problem solved.

#524
sanadawarrior

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Lidieh wrote...

... ... ... I hate to interrupt this ridiculously loooong debate here, but... who cares what they intend to do?
Don't like it? Don't buy it.
They won't do it again.
Problem solved.


Good point, but im bored at work.Posted Image

#525
BlackyBlack

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Khavos wrote...

Devs also said less than a month ago that DA:O was Bioware's best-selling game.  Ever.

Again, DAO was on 3 different systems and has been out for nearly a year. You can't really compare the sales to KOTOR or BG2 when the RPG gaming industry wasn't very good back then. And I can't say I'm surprised it sold more than ME1, DAO is the better game, and EA pushed a much bigger marketing (and again, DAO came out on 3 systems)

Pretty sure vgchartz has 'em all. 

No, they lack the PC sales and their numbers are very unrealible. For one, ME2 lacks Japan's sales

Anyway, the only article about DAO sales I've read is the one at RELEASE (before ME2 came out), can I have a link to this new one?

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 13 août 2010 - 02:30 .