1133 réponses à ce sujet

[wowpwnslol]

AlanC9 wrote...

How could combat get easier, anyway?

They could probably make it like The Witcher.

[Heimdall]

wowpwnslol wrote...

All I know if DA2 is as much of a disgrace to the RPG genre as ME2 , Bio will lose many fans. The complexities give the game replayability - I played ME2 exactly once because it's nothing but a shooter/interactive movie with no stats, horrendous "skill" selection, no inventory, bland classes and premade character. I easily put in 200+ hours into DA - Number of hours I put in ME2? 37. Just as much as it took to finish it.

The problem comes when you try to judge ME2 as an RPG.  It is an RPG shooter hybrid just like it's predecesser.

In this gamer's opinion ME1 was too close to the RPG side with far too clunky combat among other issues.  ME2 was too close to the shooter side of the fence.

balance for ME3

[In Exile]

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

There is an entire market consisting of people who like simple games: The casual gamer market.

And that market is the Nintendo Wii. Seriously. They are the casual gamers, and if anything kills gaming, it will be them, for who you can design a super cheap game and make hundred of millions. Halo, MW2, these are niche games compared to truly casual games.

[Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens]

Sidney wrote...

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...
Edit: To you and the person that posted the comment above this one:

No one in their right mind plays RPGs expecting not to interact with the game by killing enemies for experience and hunt for items and what not. Go play a different type of game, duh.

Also: RPGs /= Books /= Movies

That argument doesn't make any sense.

No, you fail to grasp the notion that what is interesting in one medium is still interesting in others. What isn't, isn't. No one breaks up a good story with shopping. No one has a great action scene and punctuates it with an exciting bout of corpse robbing before moving on to the next action scene.

So because these are traditional elements they must always be? It also isn't true that I expect either of those things. I was perfectly content in Jade Empire to not hunt for items - in fact it was quite liberating to play the game and not a street sweeper. I also found ME2's mission based XP to be vastly more interesting that watching meaningless killing making me a better person in every other RPG.

Your problem is that you blithely accept what you are used to without asking "Why the heck is this crap in my game?" Instead you've used all that filler to create some vision of what a game should be and any variation from that is heresy and people should just be stamping out variations on the same theme over and over and over.

So am I to assume you've played an RPG where you don't level up, don't fight for experience, don't loot, don't buy items and don't stat build? Was this "RPG" Halo? Lol

Seriously, why do you play Dragon Age if these elements are crap? They are the basic elements of the game. I don't get it.

Am I being trolled?

[DarkSpiral]

wowpwnslol wrote...

All I know if DA2 is as much of a disgrace to the RPG genre as ME2 , Bio will lose many fans.

If DA2 is the same kind of "disgrace" to the RPG genre that ME2 was, then it will lose far fewer fans then it will gain.  A sad thing perhaps, but almost a certainty.

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 19 août 2010 - 03:09 .

[deathhawk2]

I have most of bioware's games, and countless others including sequels to them, just about every game has changed some aspect fromt he predecessor. DA2 might be a different style of a game from DA:O, but, they are still rpg, they still have story being told in it, you are just playing an importatnt figure from that story, instead of someone that wasn't known before hand.



In case of people bringing up the me1 to me2 games, as someone else pointed out they are a hybrid game, they are not a pure rpg, what they are is a rpg/fps, and in both accounts are good games, did they change to much in the second one for some people, probably, hence the dicussions going on on those forums, and feedback being given to that development team.



There has been other very popular hybrid rpg games in which case the first one did alot more rpg elements then the second one, One game for example of this is the spellforce series, which is a rpg/rts game, first one was heavy on the rpg elements, where as the second one has a great story still, and other rpg elements, but has way more strategy to it.

[Bryy_Miller]

DarkSpiral wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

All I know if DA2 is as much of a disgrace to the RPG genre as ME2 , Bio will lose many fans.

If DA2 is the same kind of "disgrace" to the RPG genre that ME2 was, then it will lose far fewer fans then it will gain.  A sad thing perhaps, but almost a certainty.

Seriously. If ME2 is a disgrace, then I'd love to see what an Absolute Failure is.

In Exile wrote...

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

There is an entire market consisting of people who like simple games: The casual gamer market.

And that market is the Nintendo Wii. Seriously. They are the casual gamers, and if anything kills gaming, it will be them, for who you can design a super cheap game and make hundred of millions. Halo, MW2, these are niche games compared to truly casual games. 

Oh please. Casual games will never be a threat to "harcore" gamers.

[wowpwnslol]

Bryy_Miller wrote...



Seriously. If ME2 is a disgrace, then I'd love to see what an Absolute Failure is.

Almost every RPG since Baldur's Gate 2. Even Awakenings expansion, which was deemed poor in comparison to DA, blows out of  water 99% of today's RPGs as far as quality is concerned and that's embarrassing.

Modifié par wowpwnslol, 19 août 2010 - 03:58 .

[pprrff]

I am actually a little disappointed that no one has figured out a character progression system that do away with the levels and stat build and what not. I understand that those things are traditionally used and work well enough for every game that uses them, but damn it we can do better. Oblivion was stepping in the right direction with the whole skill system, and you improve particular skill by using them i.e. attacking with swords would increase your skill at using swords, and you will do more damage. It is alot more realistic than pumping stat points into strength as if somehow your PC doubles or triple his/her muscle mass as you kill baddies.

The Oblivion system still sucks because it tries to combine the traditional level and stat build with the skill system, and the outcome is a cluster****.

For DA2, they can institue something like what Oblivion had, but without the levelst, and let the skill/talent tree be much more important. Player will pick a weap skill and stick with it, and each enemy kill slightly increases your proficiency, and thus increase your damage, and maybe dodge and defense since you also gain agility as you become familiar with the weapon. This can replace the Str, Dex, Cun stat that we have right now. The same for magic users, using the same spell over and over should let you increase damage, mana consumption  rate and overall effectiveness while reducing cast time. So it will replace the Mag stat.

As for Will and Con, they can be replaced with magical potion or item. Like everyonce a while, a mob will drop a potion that will increase hitpoint and mana permanently, or they can be given after certain quests. Which is less arbitrary then giving you stat points

Ofcourse we will still have gears and armor that will modify damages and hitpoints and what not, those will become more important if we get rid of the stupid character levels.

Modifié par pprrff, 19 août 2010 - 04:09 .

[Gatt9]

DarkSpiral wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

All I know if DA2 is as much of a disgrace to the RPG genre as ME2 , Bio will lose many fans.

If DA2 is the same kind of "disgrace" to the RPG genre that ME2 was, then it will lose far fewer fans then it will gain.  A sad thing perhaps, but almost a certainty.

I bought ME2 expecting the RPG the box promised me,  the sequel the box promised me.  What I got was a really crappy version of Quake.

I expect there's more than a few people like me,  and I expect we haven't seen the end result yet.  Another company made the same mistake,  they failed to sell half of their initial shipment of the second game before they dropped off the charts.  Generally,  it's a very bad thing when your initial shipment sits on shelves,  and it still sits on shelves today over a year later.  I walked past a copy of the collector's edition just last week.

So yes,  Bioware should be worried at this point,  it's a definitive sign of the coming market crash that they aren't.  Too much "We'll make every game a shooter!" out there now.

[Bryy_Miller]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...



Seriously. If ME2 is a disgrace, then I'd love to see what an Absolute Failure is.

Almost every RPG since Baldur's Gate 2.

Funny, I don't see BioWare going bankrupt. If every game Bio made was a disgrace, don't you think they wouldn't have even made it to ME1?

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 19 août 2010 - 04:25 .

[Merced256]

Well i had high that this thread had died, but since it hasn't and the same ole rpg debate is still going then let me ask this:



Is Starcraft 2 a RPG and not a RTS? I mean you "roleplay" as Jimmy Raynor, you can even pick which missions you take and generally what order you take them in. Sure theres no levels, inventory, skills, but i'd argue that ME2's equivalent of those things were largely worthless anyway. So how does ME2 get called a RPG and SC2 not? Lets not be biased and stuff.

[Merced256]

Oh please. Casual games will never be a threat to "harcore" gamers.

Idunno.. i mean.. Look at World of Warcraft. Yea, i'd say casual games are a clear and present danger.

edit: To elaborate just a bit...

WoW was tremendously casual compared to say EQ, but in mostly good ways. However, they stepped out on to a very slippery slope and have slidden down it quite a ways now. All the while catching casuals, retards, 10 year olds, and everything in between on its way down. Now maybe thats not such a horrible thing but consider this: Nearly every major MMO that will come out in the next 10 years will be essentially a WoW clone. Look at ToR even and everything that came out after TBC and tell me this isn't true.

That is why casual games are a very real danger to hardcore gamers.

Modifié par Merced256, 19 août 2010 - 05:10 .

[pprrff]

Merced256 wrote...

Oh please. Casual games will never be a threat to "harcore" gamers.

Idunno.. i mean.. Look at World of Warcraft. Yea, i'd say casual games are a clear and present danger.

edit: To elaborate just a bit...

WoW was tremendously casual compared to say EQ, but in mostly good ways. However, they stepped out on to a very slippery slope and have slidden down it quite a ways now. All the while catching casuals, retards, 10 year olds, and everything in between on its way down. Now maybe thats not such a horrible thing but consider this: Nearly every major MMO that will come out in the next 10 years will be essentially a WoW clone. Look at ToR even and everything that came out after TBC and tell me this isn't true.

That is why casual games are a very real danger to hardcore gamers.

Just out of curiousity, if WoW players are casual, what do you mean by 'hardcore' gamer. Do you judge by gaming design or player's dedication. I always thought WoW was as hardcore is it can get by the way it takes over people's life.

[Merced256]

pprrff wrote...

Merced256 wrote...

Oh please. Casual games will never be a threat to "harcore" gamers.

Idunno.. i mean.. Look at World of Warcraft. Yea, i'd say casual games are a clear and present danger.

edit: To elaborate just a bit...

WoW was tremendously casual compared to say EQ, but in mostly good ways. However, they stepped out on to a very slippery slope and have slidden down it quite a ways now. All the while catching casuals, retards, 10 year olds, and everything in between on its way down. Now maybe thats not such a horrible thing but consider this: Nearly every major MMO that will come out in the next 10 years will be essentially a WoW clone. Look at ToR even and everything that came out after TBC and tell me this isn't true.

That is why casual games are a very real danger to hardcore gamers.

Just out of curiousity, if WoW players are casual, what do you mean by 'hardcore' gamer. Do you judge by gaming design or player's dedication. I always thought WoW was as hardcore is it can get by the way it takes over people's life.

WoW is an obsession for some, and i would go so far as to say there is a very real rift in WoW's subscription base thant can be defined as hardcore vs casual. But seeing how WoW has been made more and more casual friendly with literally every major content patch then i think its safe to assume more "casuals" play WoW than anything else.

However i suspect the definition of hardcore gamer is as transient as RPG's. My definition of hardcore isn't based on how much time one invests, but more of how much they know of the game and their particular skill. Most hardcore WoW players are extremely knowledgible of their class and many others as well as raid boss strategies, leveling, you name it and most of them will know it. Casuals being defined as joe sickpack who just wants to collect epics in his mailbox every tuesday(which isn't far off from reality in WoW) and be on his way.

Modifié par Merced256, 19 août 2010 - 05:25 .

[steelfire_dragon]

to make something great, one must make it so that you'd play with it, and not for somone else.

[wowpwnslol]

Bryy_Miller wrote...


Funny, I don't see BioWare going bankrupt. If every game Bio made was a disgrace, don't you think they wouldn't have even made it to ME1?

A disgrace to RPG genre, not financial failure. Bioware is slowly starting to cater to Johnny the console kid. who has an attention span of a housefly and wants to "win" all the time. There can be no complexities - anything other than point and shoot frustrates people like him. Sadly, like other posters have already said, this is the majority of the modern gamers. Can't really blame Bio, they are just out there to make money. Enjoy Dragon Age. Possibly the last RPG that will come close to being "old school". Gaming is mainstream these days and since most people are dumb, guess which type of gameplay will appeal to most people? Complexity is dead. Consoles are a plague. Old school RPG will never be the same again.

[Massadonious1]

If Origins was complex, then tying my shoes is complex.

[wowpwnslol]

Massadonious1 wrote...

If Origins was complex, then tying my shoes is complex.

And yet many people still complained about its complexity.

[Massadonious1]

If only that was the point.

[Daur]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...


Funny, I don't see BioWare going bankrupt. If every game Bio made was a disgrace, don't you think they wouldn't have even made it to ME1?

A disgrace to RPG genre, not financial failure. Bioware is slowly starting to cater to Johnny the console kid. who has an attention span of a housefly and wants to "win" all the time. There can be no complexities - anything other than point and shoot frustrates people like him. Sadly, like other posters have already said, this is the majority of the modern gamers. Can't really blame Bio, they are just out there to make money. Enjoy Dragon Age. Possibly the last RPG that will come close to being "old school". Gaming is mainstream these days and since most people are dumb, guess which type of gameplay will appeal to most people? Complexity is dead. Consoles are a plague. Old school RPG will never be the same again.

*sigh* consoles won't be the death of RPG's....

[Daur]

Massadonious1 wrote...

If Origins was complex, then tying my shoes is complex.

It's complex at first glance when you first pick up the game and start playing it, it becomes quite simple once you play it for a bit....not retardedly simple but not OMFG complex. I felt like it was a good balance

Modifié par Daur, 19 août 2010 - 06:16 .

[Tarmack]

Some people take the directions companies go with their games too personally. Doesn't anyone just play em for fun anymore? *chuckles*

Modifié par Tarmack, 19 août 2010 - 06:37 .

[Massadonious1]

Games? For fun?



Pshaw. I play RPG's to feel superior.

[Daur]

Tarmack wrote...

Some people take the directions companies go with their games too personally. Doesn't anyone just play em for fun anymore? *chuckles*

Exactly, people need to calm down a bit and wait till solid gameplay comes out at least.

Or they can do what Im going to do, buy the game day 1 and love it...and if I dont I will MAKE myself love it