1133 réponses à ce sujet

[Novadove]

i am upset about this issue, but i dont play elves in DAO. so stop being generic.

and please get your facts right, DA2 is not a "whole new game" it is a sequel.

If today, DA2 is a whole new game, i won't even bother to post in this forum because i would've accept what it is.

it's the same like during the development of ME1, i do not even make a single comment on whether the direction is right or wrong.

i played ME1 and 2 once and never on it again. i played DAO 12 times and still playing now.

i have no problem with ME1 to ME2 transistion. but i have full of problems with DAO to DA2.

Modifié par Novadove, 12 août 2010 - 03:58 .

[Dave of Canada]

Nobody will get a true role playing experience as they expect, you might not think that Mass Effect is an RPG but that doesn't make it so. The definition of "RPG" is now subjective. What you're expecting is something that's impossible to accomplish due to human nature.



Do you remember when Baldur's Gate received complaints from D&D fans? Funny how it's now considered the pinnacle of RPG games by this community, isn't it?

[dheer]

Angel of Nessus wrote...
While your point is valid, it still seems to me like the only people who are really upset over this issue is the group who can't seem to play anything but elves.

I don't care if I'm an elf, dwawf or human. I'd rather play a character that I create than a stock one that everyone shares. They've decided to hand hold people that don't like to read. I understand it for the console crowd. It's the new focus.

(ie, "Oh, I can't be an elf?!?  Damn you, BioWare, I demand you change it so I can have pointy ears and feel sorry for myself!").  As such, I really can't find any sympathy for such issues.

Your avatar has emo hair. As such, I really can't find any sympathy for your elf issues.

[Angel of Nessus]

Novadove wrote...

i am upset about this issue, but i dont play elves in DA. so stop being generic.

Splitting hairs- my point remains valid, since race and SURNAME are the only things BW railroaded compared to Origins.  If it bothers you so much, go and play an action game where you have a set character.  Play it, and imagine if you were playing this character, except the setting was the Dragon Age setting, you were able to fully customize his appearance, attitude, origins and abilities, he had infinitely more kickass powers at his fingertips, and you could finetune how you TAKE OVER ZE VORLD!! or Kirkwall, or whatever it's called.  THATS the game you would be playing.  Are you telling me that this is a bad game idea, because you can't chose race?

[TSamee]

I think Garrett Hawke is a worthy tradeoff for race-locking.

[Archdemon Cthulhu]

dheer wrote...

Angel of Nessus wrote...
While your point is valid, it still seems to me like the only people who are really upset over this issue is the group who can't seem to play anything but elves.

I don't care if I'm an elf, dwawf or human. I'd rather play a character that I create than a stock one that everyone shares. They've decided to hand hold people that don't like to read. I understand it for the console crowd. It's the new focus.

(ie, "Oh, I can't be an elf?!?  Damn you, BioWare, I demand you change it so I can have pointy ears and feel sorry for myself!").  As such, I really can't find any sympathy for such issues.

Your avatar has emo hair. As such, I really can't find any sympathy for your elf issues.

While I'm with you on the race issue (especially since the ycould have easily come up wit ha backstory for a character named Hawke that was vague enough for him/her to be any of several races), the "console players are stupid" implication is silly and prejudiced.  

[Dave of Canada]

Archdemon Cthulhu wrote...

the "console players are stupid" implication is silly and prejudiced.  

If I managed to gather my info correctly, there's a greater threat to Thedas than the blight or civil war and it's console gamers. As one myself, I feel horrible and was going to jump off a cliff until I realised I wouldn't be able to play the game if I was dead.

[Angel of Nessus]

dheer wrote...

Angel of Nessus wrote...
While your point is valid, it still seems to me like the only people who are really upset over this issue is the group who can't seem to play anything but elves.

I don't care if I'm an elf, dwawf or human. I'd rather play a character that I create than a stock one that everyone shares. They've decided to hand hold people that don't like to read. I understand it for the console crowd. It's the new focus.

(ie, "Oh, I can't be an elf?!?  Damn you, BioWare, I demand you change it so I can have pointy ears and feel sorry for myself!").  As such, I really can't find any sympathy for such issues.

Your avatar has emo hair. As such, I really can't find any sympathy for your elf issues.

Touche, but this hair is better than the stock hair, emo or not. 

On the issue at hand, no one Hawke will likely be the same as another- the only ultimate similarities are race, surname and being a political badass- hardly the same across everyone's individual plays. 

[FlyinElk212]

Angel of Nessus wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I have to agree on Mr. Woo on a lot of his points made in his long post. The hate and arguments over Hawke seem to be unfair, in that it is a character CREATED by Bioware for the public to enjoy. Nowhere do I see the logic in that the character is ours, and we have the right to flame and expect change.
Where I believe a more appropriate rage (if rage can even be considered appropriate) can be found is the fact that Hawke was even created in the first place. I think that a lot of people take offense to that not because of Hawke himself, but what Hawke represents. Hawke is a character created by Bioware and given to us, within a game series that encouraged the PLAYER to create their own character. Even in the advertising, Dragon Age:Origins makes sure to drive home the point, "YOU are a Grey Warden".
I understand that Hawke can still have his/her appearance, personality, and choices within the game changed, but I believe most people dislike the thought of the developers taking away the privilege of creating their own character. No matter how you spin it, you are still giving them your character, and telling them to do with that character what you want.
I have no qualms with this and don't view it as such a big issue, but I believe that people take offense to having the feature itself of creating something from scratch, something that they can call their own characters, being taken away from them. Perhaps they view it as a feature being taken away from the game.

While your point is valid, it still seems to me like the only people who are really upset over this issue is the group who can't seem to play anything but elves (ie, "Oh, I can't be an elf?!?  Damn you, BioWare, I demand you change it so I can have pointy ears and feel sorry for myself!").  As such, I really can't find any sympathy for such issues.  You are also speaking of the franchise as a single game, which, it MUST BE NOTED, it is NOT- as such, there are no features being taken from the game- DA:O is still as customizable as it ever was.

Very true--I was careless in my terminology. Yeah, I guess 1 game hardly a franchise makes. And no worries-I completely agree that DA:O is just as customizable as it was, sans not being able to be an elf/dwarf. It's merely the action of giving us a named character that initially makes the notion horrible. When you think about it though, it's not that much of a difference.

Calling the main character "Hawke" is no different from calling everyone's main character "The Warden" in DA:O. It's really just a name change--sans you can't choose your race.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 12 août 2010 - 04:12 .

[dheer]

Archdemon Cthulhu wrote...
While I'm with you on the race issue (especially since the ycould have easily come up wit ha backstory for a character named Hawke that was vague enough for him/her to be any of several races), the "console players are stupid" implication is silly and prejudiced.  

I'm not saying they're stupid at all. Console players usually play on a tv across the room. They don't like to read text like a pc player can while sitting right in front of a monitor. Keyboard + mouse vs controller isn't the only difference.

With consoles the new focus, I understand why they went with a voiced character. I don't like it but I'm not running Bioware.

[Angel of Nessus]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Angel of Nessus wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I have to agree on Mr. Woo on a lot of his points made in his long post. The hate and arguments over Hawke seem to be unfair, in that it is a character CREATED by Bioware for the public to enjoy. Nowhere do I see the logic in that the character is ours, and we have the right to flame and expect change.
Where I believe a more appropriate rage (if rage can even be considered appropriate) can be found is the fact that Hawke was even created in the first place. I think that a lot of people take offense to that not because of Hawke himself, but what Hawke represents. Hawke is a character created by Bioware and given to us, within a game series that encouraged the PLAYER to create their own character. Even in the advertising, Dragon Age:Origins makes sure to drive home the point, "YOU are a Grey Warden".
I understand that Hawke can still have his/her appearance, personality, and choices within the game changed, but I believe most people dislike the thought of the developers taking away the privilege of creating their own character. No matter how you spin it, you are still giving them your character, and telling them to do with that character what you want.
I have no qualms with this and don't view it as such a big issue, but I believe that people take offense to having the feature itself of creating something from scratch, something that they can call their own characters, being taken away from them. Perhaps they view it as a feature being taken away from the game.

While your point is valid, it still seems to me like the only people who are really upset over this issue is the group who can't seem to play anything but elves (ie, "Oh, I can't be an elf?!?  Damn you, BioWare, I demand you change it so I can have pointy ears and feel sorry for myself!").  As such, I really can't find any sympathy for such issues.  You are also speaking of the franchise as a single game, which, it MUST BE NOTED, it is NOT- as such, there are no features being taken from the game- DA:O is still as customizable as it ever was.

Very true--I was careless in my terminology. Yeah, I guess 1 game hardly a franchise makes. And no worries-I completely agree that DA:O is just as customizable as it was, sans not being able to be an elf/dwarf. It's merely the action of giving us a named character that initially makes the notion horrible. When you think about it though, it's not that much of a difference.

Exactly- all it does is increase immersion and not having to worry about all the different origin surnames.  The only thing that seems to be set in stone is the race, which seems like a horribly petty thing to be arguing about, to me (since, as the "single most important figure in the world of Dragon Age", the character should have some basic connection to canon). 

[Angel of Nessus]

Angel of Nessus wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Angel of Nessus wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I have to agree on Mr. Woo on a lot of his points made in his long post. The hate and arguments over Hawke seem to be unfair, in that it is a character CREATED by Bioware for the public to enjoy. Nowhere do I see the logic in that the character is ours, and we have the right to flame and expect change.
Where I believe a more appropriate rage (if rage can even be considered appropriate) can be found is the fact that Hawke was even created in the first place. I think that a lot of people take offense to that not because of Hawke himself, but what Hawke represents. Hawke is a character created by Bioware and given to us, within a game series that encouraged the PLAYER to create their own character. Even in the advertising, Dragon Age:Origins makes sure to drive home the point, "YOU are a Grey Warden".
I understand that Hawke can still have his/her appearance, personality, and choices within the game changed, but I believe most people dislike the thought of the developers taking away the privilege of creating their own character. No matter how you spin it, you are still giving them your character, and telling them to do with that character what you want.
I have no qualms with this and don't view it as such a big issue, but I believe that people take offense to having the feature itself of creating something from scratch, something that they can call their own characters, being taken away from them. Perhaps they view it as a feature being taken away from the game.

While your point is valid, it still seems to me like the only people who are really upset over this issue is the group who can't seem to play anything but elves (ie, "Oh, I can't be an elf?!?  Damn you, BioWare, I demand you change it so I can have pointy ears and feel sorry for myself!").  As such, I really can't find any sympathy for such issues.  You are also speaking of the franchise as a single game, which, it MUST BE NOTED, it is NOT- as such, there are no features being taken from the game- DA:O is still as customizable as it ever was.

Very true--I was careless in my terminology. Yeah, I guess 1 game hardly a franchise makes. And no worries-I completely agree that DA:O is just as customizable as it was, sans not being able to be an elf/dwarf. It's merely the action of giving us a named character that initially makes the notion horrible. When you think about it though, it's not that much of a difference.

Exactly- all it does is increase immersion without having to worry about all the different origin surnames and specific people you may not have met outside of, say, the Circle Tower, of the Denerim Alienage (though your class choices will probably have some impact on this).  The only thing that seems to be set in stone is the race, which seems like a horribly petty thing to be arguing about, to me (since, as the "single most important figure in the world of Dragon Age", the character should have some basic connection to canon). 

EDIT- meant to edit for clarity and mistakenly clicked Quote, instead.  Mea culpa.

Modifié par Angel of Nessus, 12 août 2010 - 04:17 .

[Novadove]

Angel of Nessus wrote...

Novadove wrote...

i am upset about this issue, but i dont play elves in DA. so stop being generic.

Splitting hairs- my point remains valid, since race and SURNAME are the only things BW railroaded compared to Origins.  If it bothers you so much, go and play an action game where you have a set character.  Play it, and imagine if you were playing this character, except the setting was the Dragon Age setting, you were able to fully customize his appearance, attitude, origins and abilities, he had infinitely more kickass powers at his fingertips, and you could finetune how you TAKE OVER ZE VORLD!! or Kirkwall, or whatever it's called.  THATS the game you would be playing.  Are you telling me that this is a bad game idea, because you can't chose race?

no, dont get me wrong. you gave a defnition but it is an unfair statement. i just pointed it out.

in fact, you are right about DAO is customizable. one of the best in fact.

The part where you get wrong, is that the game does not lay out like what a sequel should be.

In 1 episode, your character wears conventional medievel armor and clothings the next day, when your character woke up and looked out the window, people start wearing ultra space alien-fashioned stylish contemporary out of the world relic armor. Where is the consistency?

my point is, if merely choosing race, hair style and whatever you are wearing makes a good game, then you can play the SIMS and say it is as good as DA isn't it?

The same applies if you play disney games and say it is as good as DA.

It totally has nothing to do with playing elf or having long hair.

[zahra]

Is it just me or some people tend to refer/treat Bioware like its an ex-girlfriend/ex-wife/person they are in a "Its Complicated-kind-of-Facebook-status" relationship with?



On a more interesting level, if Bioware had a gender it would definitely be a hot cosplay chick.

[Angel of Nessus]

Novadove wrote...

Angel of Nessus wrote...

Novadove wrote...

i am upset about this issue, but i dont play elves in DA. so stop being generic.

Splitting hairs- my point remains valid, since race and SURNAME are the only things BW railroaded compared to Origins.  If it bothers you so much, go and play an action game where you have a set character.  Play it, and imagine if you were playing this character, except the setting was the Dragon Age setting, you were able to fully customize his appearance, attitude, origins and abilities, he had infinitely more kickass powers at his fingertips, and you could finetune how you TAKE OVER ZE VORLD!! or Kirkwall, or whatever it's called.  THATS the game you would be playing.  Are you telling me that this is a bad game idea, because you can't chose race?

no, dont get me wrong. you gave a defnition but it is an unfair statement. i just pointed it out.

in fact, you are right about DAO is customizable. one of the best in fact.

The part where you get wrong, is that the game does not lay out like what a sequel should be.

In 1 episode, your character wears conventional medievel armor and clothings the next day, when your character woke up and looked out the window, people start wearing ultra space alien-fashioned stylish contemporary out of the world relic armor. Where is the consistency?

my point is, if merely choosing race, hair style and whatever you are wearing makes a good game, then you can play the SIMS and say it is as good as DA isn't it?

The same applies if you play disney games and say it is as good as DA.

It totally has nothing to do with playing elf or having long hair.

You seem to think that the "2" means that it is a sequel in the traditional sense, which it is not.  What makes a DA game a DA game is not being able to chose your race or how one race looks compared to itself in a alter installment of the franchise.  

Different parts of the world have different aesthetic styles, and maybe some creatures in these different parts of the world are naturally different looking (see real world human races).  If this is about some Qunari having horns or the darkspawn of the Free Marches being devoid of deep angler teeth, then it's hardly worth arguing about.

Modifié par Angel of Nessus, 12 août 2010 - 04:37 .

[Schuback]

As the games evolve, so will the players.Someday, we think back and tell our kids ".... back in my time RPG was..." And they will laugh at us.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Schuback wrote...

As the games evolve, so will the players.Someday, we think back and tell our kids ".... back in my time RPG was..." And they will laugh at us.

yep

[Novadove]

Angel of Nessus wrote...

Novadove wrote...

Angel of Nessus wrote...

Novadove wrote...

i am upset about this issue, but i dont play elves in DA. so stop being generic.

Splitting hairs- my point remains valid, since race and SURNAME are the only things BW railroaded compared to Origins.  If it bothers you so much, go and play an action game where you have a set character.  Play it, and imagine if you were playing this character, except the setting was the Dragon Age setting, you were able to fully customize his appearance, attitude, origins and abilities, he had infinitely more kickass powers at his fingertips, and you could finetune how you TAKE OVER ZE VORLD!! or Kirkwall, or whatever it's called.  THATS the game you would be playing.  Are you telling me that this is a bad game idea, because you can't chose race?

no, dont get me wrong. you gave a defnition but it is an unfair statement. i just pointed it out.

in fact, you are right about DAO is customizable. one of the best in fact.

The part where you get wrong, is that the game does not lay out like what a sequel should be.

In 1 episode, your character wears conventional medievel armor and clothings the next day, when your character woke up and looked out the window, people start wearing ultra space alien-fashioned stylish contemporary out of the world relic armor. Where is the consistency?

my point is, if merely choosing race, hair style and whatever you are wearing makes a good game, then you can play the SIMS and say it is as good as DA isn't it?

The same applies if you play disney games and say it is as good as DA.

It totally has nothing to do with playing elf or having long hair.

You seem to think that the "2" means that it is a sequel in the traditional sense, which it is not.  What makes a DA game a DA game is not being able to chose your race or how one race looks compared to itself in a alter installment of the franchise.  

Different parts of the world have different aesthetic styles, and maybe some creatures in these different parts of the world are naturally different looking (see real world human races).  If this is about some Qunari having horns or the darkspawn of the Free Marches being devoid of deep angler teeth, then it's hardly worth arguing about.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry but i have to say the things you pointed out is incorrect.

Hawke is a refugee in lothering. so what you mean by "different parts of the world have different looking..." analogy? definitely it will not be the case that all the alienated armor parts are so convieniently found everywhere right? i can give it to darkspawn because they might eat different species of people to evolve more undead like.

Personally i don't give a care to whether qunari have horns or not. 

The only thing i question and challenge is the notion of the reason why.

People do not design things because they feel like it. Things are drawn for a reason. Things are decided for a reason. The reason should be sensible and accurate. Especially so, if there is already a reference point.

If it is a 1st creation, then you can do all you want with it. However, DA2 is in the same dragon age era, people should look more different because our real life graphic card engine is getting better.

It shouldn not be the case of :  "ok, i create DAO to look like this.. hmmm but now, i want it to look like [whatever you insert here] because i think it should look like this just because it should and i feel like it"

the only series that deviates very successfully but still carries the same name is finaly fantasy.

If DA2 is to be like final fantasy series, then don't tell us that hawke is a refugee from lothering.

you mean what, lothering now has ferrari running around on the street?
 

[Dave of Canada]

Schuback wrote...

As the games evolve, so will the players.Someday, we think back and tell our kids ".... back in my time RPG was..." And they will laugh at us.

"You're kidding me, there was a game genre outside of shooters? HAHAHAHAHAHA"

[The Edge]

I can understand educated guesses, but we don't really have enough info on DA2 to know how much it will change, or whether or not it'll be ME2-ish.



We are left to assume, and we all know what that means, right?

[Ekyri]

condiments1 wrote...


Hey guyz I'm playing Starcraft 2 and I sided with the PROTOSS over those lame colonists and someone is angry that I did! Choice and consquences! I'm gonna spend credits to upgrade my units. Dis is da best RPG evar!

Kinda waiting for someone to argue against this statement

[Blastback]

This thread hurts my brain.



filetemo, you say that only people ranting will change the course Bioware is on. Well, your ranting in a forum about a game that hasn't been released yet. Bioware does value feedback. But it's hard to take very seriously when that feedback is about a game that you havn't played. Plus, even if you scream and rage and flame that Bioware's direction is bad, if more people decide that they like whatever direction Bioware takes is good, who should Bioware listen to?

[sporky1]

condiments1 wrote...

How in the world did we start arguing over comic superhero consistency? This hardly applies to game genre classification....

Yes it does. They're both styles of art in popculture. Batman and Hawke are both characters that can changed based on the POV put in charge of them.

[SirOccam]

Ekyri wrote...

condiments1 wrote...

Hey guyz I'm playing Starcraft 2 and I sided with the PROTOSS over those lame colonists and someone is angry that I did! Choice and consquences! I'm gonna spend credits to upgrade my units. Dis is da best RPG evar!

Kinda waiting for someone to argue against this statement

Kind of hard when there's no thesis.

If I had to make a bunch of assumptions, I would guess his point is that because it features choices, consequences for those choices, and the ability to upgrade, it should be considered an RPG, yet it is not an RPG, therefore the assertion that "any game featuring those 3 things is by definition an RPG" (which I have yet to hear someone make) is false. Is that right?

I haven't played SC2 so I have no idea what it features or doesn't feature; just guessing.

[Spinnazie]

I'll reserve my judgment until DA2 actually is released.



As much as I hated Bioware getting in bed with EA and some of their new ideas, Dragon Age is probably my favorite RPG ever and I won't give up on Bioware just yet.