1133 réponses à ce sujet

[NovenseiWarden]

Ekyri wrote...

condiments1 wrote...


Hey guyz I'm playing Starcraft 2 and I sided with the PROTOSS over those lame colonists and someone is angry that I did! Choice and consquences! I'm gonna spend credits to upgrade my units. Dis is da best RPG evar!

Kinda waiting for someone to argue against this statement

You just made my day

[Jonathan Seagull]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Schuback wrote...

As the games evolve, so will the players.Someday, we think back and tell our kids ".... back in my time RPG was..." And they will laugh at us.

"You're kidding me, there was a game genre outside of shooters? HAHAHAHAHAHA"

Except shooters will then be called RPGs.  :-p  And all restaurants will be Taco Bell.

[Angel of Nessus]

Novadove wrote...
People do not design things because they feel like it.
 

This statement alone is incorrect- That is the ONLY reason people design games the way they do.  If they want to change the art style to become more, I don't know, STYLIZED, then they should do so, since this is a NEW game set in a FANTASY world.  I don't see how you can equate SOME Qunari having horns when all we saw was Sten and a few faceless Sten clone mercenaries in Origins to Ferarris coursing through Lothering.  What exactly is it about the game that is creating this skewed view of yours?

Also, the Final Fantasy games were terrible save for 6,7 and 9.  12 and 13 were of particular wretchedness.   Again, a franchise title does not dictate whether a game is good/bad or what it's style should be like (see: Final Fantasy 6 setting/Final Fantasy 7 setting).

[captain.subtle]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Is Batman "your" character? he's been around much, much longer than Dragon Age has. how much control do Batman fans have in what Batman scripts get approved? How much influence do Batman fans have on who's chosen as the next actor to play Batman, or what actor voices Batman, or who dubs him in foreign language versions of movies? How many times has DC Comics phones you to ask you what the next Batman game is going to be? Where's the website Batman fans go to in order to vote for which writer we want to write which Batman story featuring which Batman villain next?

We killed off Robin. Right? Plus If I remember correctly, We made Captain America loose against him.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 12 août 2010 - 06:11 .

[Angel of Nessus]

captain.subtle wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Is Batman "your" character? he's been around much, much longer than Dragon Age has. how much control do Batman fans have in what Batman scripts get approved? How much influence do Batman fans have on who's chosen as the next actor to play Batman, or what actor voices Batman, or who dubs him in foreign language versions of movies? How many times has DC Comics phones you to ask you what the next Batman game is going to be? Where's the website Batman fans go to in order to vote for which writer we want to write which Batman story featuring which Batman villain next?

We killed of Robin. Right? Plus If I remember correctly, We made Captain America loose against him.

This shall not stand.

[Archdemon Cthulhu]

captain.subtle wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Is Batman "your" character? he's been around much, much longer than Dragon Age has. how much control do Batman fans have in what Batman scripts get approved? How much influence do Batman fans have on who's chosen as the next actor to play Batman, or what actor voices Batman, or who dubs him in foreign language versions of movies? How many times has DC Comics phones you to ask you what the next Batman game is going to be? Where's the website Batman fans go to in order to vote for which writer we want to write which Batman story featuring which Batman villain next?

We killed off Robin. Right? Plus If I remember correctly, We made Captain America loose against him.

Only for them to bring Jason Todd back 15 years later.

[Bryy_Miller]

And that was only because they asked us. It was a PR stunt.

[Khavos]

SirOccam wrote...

filetemo wrote...

They say they want to push the rpg genre, but it's not true, what they want is to make interactive adventures.

In bioware's wildest dreams, they get rid of inventory, skills, tactical combat, leveling up, customisation options and stats. All those heavy and difficult to learn rpg things that make them unatractive to casual gamers. They can't do it yet, because hardcore rpg gamers still have power, but they really would like their games to stop getting labeled rpgs, because that's like a stigma for the fps crowd.

Bioware's perfect game would be: premade character, choices, love interests, different endings and simple combat "press A to win" they are moving slowly to that, Heavy Rain with swords and magic.

Do you remember those books of "choose your own adventure"? that's what bioware wants to do.

They are forcing us to assume slowly the changes made to dilute the rpg traits, and in 5 years we will call bioware games "adventures" because the rpgs will be no more.

Then maybe, they'll get their dream of selling 10 million units.

What gives you the slightest idea that they want to get rid of "inventory, skills, tactical combat, leveling up, customisation options and stats?" This is jumping to conclusions x 1000.

What have they actually done that indicates any of this? Not just some random thing they said that you've decided to interpret in a crazy way.

They really are "pushing the rpg genre." Unfortunately for the "purists" who refuse to change with the times, that means all or nearly all of the changes are going to be for the worse.

I'll never understand people who think things are perfect the way they are used to them, and any change is necessarily bad.

Mass Effect 2?  Dragon Age 2?

[Khavos]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And that will accomplish precisely nothing. If someone decided to make Shepard into a transvestite cocaine addict (and, of course, we thought that it would work and sell and make money), all your raging and flaming would not change the direction of the game. It would not magically change Shepard into the character you want him to be. In fact, we could do whatever we wanted with Shepard without your permission, approval, or knowledge, and you'd have precisely zero control over it. That's what people mean when they say it's not your character.

I understand that you can feel a great connection to a character, and you want him to be a certain way, but guess what? Characters can change. Look at Batman, for example, or, rather, The Bat-Man. Look at the very different ways he is written and drawn. At some point, people started drawing him a different way, people started writing him a certain way. Times changed, comics changed, the world changed, and of course, Batman's stories changed to reflect what was happening in the world.

Is Batman "your" character? he's been around much, much longer than Dragon Age has. how much control do Batman fans have in what Batman scripts get approved? How much influence do Batman fans have on who's chosen as the next actor to play Batman, or what actor voices Batman, or who dubs him in foreign language versions of movies? How many times has DC Comics phones you to ask you what the next Batman game is going to be? Where's the website Batman fans go to in order to vote for which writer we want to write which Batman story featuring which Batman villain next?

What you seem to be forgetting is that a lot of Western RPGs actually allowed you to create a character rather than having one created for you.  That's where a lot of the old-school rage comes in.  It took a lot of folks a long time to figure out that you guys started making JRPGs rather than WRPGs, apparently. 

[captain.subtle]

Khavos wrote...

What you seem to be forgetting is that a lot of Western RPGs actually allowed you to create a character rather than having one created for you.  That's where a lot of the old-school rage comes in.  It took a lot of folks a long time to figure out that you guys started making JRPGs rather than WRPGs, apparently. 

khavos,

You won't need to worry on that account except for the origin of your character which was a new thing anyway (NWN1,NWN2 and DA:O, paricularly DA:O) . I belive that we will have a comparitively good control over class, character development (choice and skills) in the game.

[Khavos]

captain.subtle wrote...
khavos,

You won't need to worry on that account except for the origin of your character which was a new thing anyway (NWN1,NWN2 and DA:O, paricularly DA:O) . I belive that we will have a comparitively good control over class, character development (choice and skills) in the game.

Why would I not need to worry?  Bioware's always been worse than everyone else with the "we're going to write your character for you" garbage, even as far back as BG.  They're only getting worse.  

[GwaR9292]

Archdemon Cthulhu :

I^a Cthulhu I^a Dagon R^yhlen

[Angel of Nessus]

Khavos wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...
khavos,

You won't need to worry on that account except for the origin of your character which was a new thing anyway (NWN1,NWN2 and DA:O, paricularly DA:O) . I belive that we will have a comparitively good control over class, character development (choice and skills) in the game.

Why would I not need to worry?  Bioware's always been worse than everyone else with the "we're going to write your character for you" garbage, even as far back as BG.  They're only getting worse.  

Then I should think that 
A) you are used to disappointment by now

and/or

you would have long ago stopped caring about something that you ultimately have no control over.

[Jigero]

Boo hoo hoo Bioware isn't making games tailored to me boo hoo I'm gonna go complain on the forum

[SirOccam]

Khavos wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

What gives you the slightest idea that they want to get rid of "inventory, skills, tactical combat, leveling up, customisation options and stats?" This is jumping to conclusions x 1000.

What have they actually done that indicates any of this? Not just some random thing they said that you've decided to interpret in a crazy way.

They really are "pushing the rpg genre." Unfortunately for the "purists" who refuse to change with the times, that means all or nearly all of the changes are going to be for the worse.

I'll never understand people who think things are perfect the way they are used to them, and any change is necessarily bad.

Mass Effect 2?  Dragon Age 2?

What does Mass Effect 2 have to do with Dragon Age 2? Yes, they are both released by BioWare, but they are separate franchises made by separate teams.

And using Dragon Age 2 as evidence for why they want to do something in Dragon Age 2 is obviously circular reasoning. Not to mention the fact that it's not even out yet.

Modifié par SirOccam, 12 août 2010 - 10:23 .

[joriandrake]

Archdemon Cthulhu wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Is Batman "your" character? he's been around much, much longer than Dragon Age has. how much control do Batman fans have in what Batman scripts get approved? How much influence do Batman fans have on who's chosen as the next actor to play Batman, or what actor voices Batman, or who dubs him in foreign language versions of movies? How many times has DC Comics phones you to ask you what the next Batman game is going to be? Where's the website Batman fans go to in order to vote for which writer we want to write which Batman story featuring which Batman villain next?

We killed off Robin. Right? Plus If I remember correctly, We made Captain America loose against him.

Only for them to bring Jason Todd back 15 years later.

but that was 15 years of victory

Captain Subtle wins this round

[Angel of Nessus]

OK, here is the issue I seem to notice most irritatingly- people seem to think that just because the main character is automatically human and has the surname Hawke that this means their character has somehow been created for them. These people are (in the nicest way I can put it) horribly misguided. A person's character is not based on their origins, it is based on the paths they choose to walk, and the choices they make. You are roleplaying a human individual named (insertnamehere) Hawke, a badass who becomes the most important person in the Dragon Age setting. If the fact that you don't seem to get as many race and origin options this time around is really worthy complaining about, you have already lost touch with what roleplaying a character is supposed to be. Sure, making a cahracter from the ground up is fun, but this is supposed to be a SPECIFIC PERSON'S STORY, a person who figures prominently in the larger scheme of things. You chose how this character interacts with the world, how they fight, and how they sculpt themselves. If that is not an RPG game, then nothing is.

Stop complaining about the race and the name already- you sound like spoiled whiners when you do. This is not Origins; it is a different game in the same setting. It is not required to be the same as Origins to be awesome- so it is based around a minimally set character this time around to tell a much more specific and cinematic story. Just because Origins was done one way doesn't mean that DA2 has to follow the exact same formula and still feel like a Dragon Age game, and the notion that does is nothing short of stupid.

*steps off soapbox*

Modifié par Angel of Nessus, 12 août 2010 - 10:27 .

[Jigero]

Khavos wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...
khavos,

You won't need to worry on that account except for the origin of your character which was a new thing anyway (NWN1,NWN2 and DA:O, paricularly DA:O) . I belive that we will have a comparitively good control over class, character development (choice and skills) in the game.

Why would I not need to worry?  Bioware's always been worse than everyone else with the "we're going to write your character for you" garbage, even as far back as BG.  They're only getting worse.  

Says you, because your butthurt bioware diddn't make the game with you in mind.

[Altima Darkspells]

Jigero wrote...

Khavos wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...
khavos,

You won't need to worry on that account except for the origin of your character which was a new thing anyway (NWN1,NWN2 and DA:O, paricularly DA:O) . I belive that we will have a comparitively good control over class, character development (choice and skills) in the game.

Why would I not need to worry?  Bioware's always been worse than everyone else with the "we're going to write your character for you" garbage, even as far back as BG.  They're only getting worse.  

Says you, because your butthurt bioware diddn't make the game with you in mind.

Yes, because it's entirely unreasonable to feel betrayed by a company that a person helped become famous because said company decides to **** themselves out to the lowest common denominator in order to eek out just a tiny bit more profit.

Which they'll then use to put out another similar, mediocre game.

And so on, and so forth, ad nauseam.

On a side note, please refrain from acting like an ass.  There is already too much tension, frustration, and hostility on the boards without you adding to it.

[Khavos]

Jigero wrote...

Says you, because your butthurt bioware diddn't make the game with you in mind.

Actually, I was pointing out that Bioware's been at this for quite some time, so I've come to expect it.  That's essentially the opposite of what you're (or is it "your"?) saying. 

[joriandrake]

Altima Darkspells wrote...



On a side note, please refrain from acting like an ass.  There is already too much tension, frustration, and hostility on the boards without you adding to it.

this

[DaringMoosejaw]

Ironically, the entitlement complexes being shown here by those standing against the new wave of 'console kiddies', people merely who don't mind the way gaming is going, are purely products of the new age we live in. My granddaddy would never release this sort of rage about ANYTHING he thought people 'owed' to him, especially not about a video game or a book. That's not the way the world works, despite how many times they were told otherwise, and they'll come to realize it eventually.

Modifié par DaringMoosejaw, 12 août 2010 - 11:01 .

[Khavos]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Ironically, the entitlement complexes being shown here by those standing against the new wave of 'console kiddies', people merely who don't mind the way gaming is going, are purely products of the new age we live in. My granddaddy would never release this sort of rage about ANYTHING he thought people 'owed' to him, especially not about a video game or a book. That's not the way the world works, despite how many times they were told otherwise, and they'll come to realize it eventually.

What a story. 

[Mornmagor]

To be honest,the only prefixed about Hawke is the name.

In the same way,why didn't anyone rage in Baldur's Gate for being a child of Bhaal?Wasn't that a prefixed affliction for their character?

In Planescape Torment you had a prefixed character that was Nameless One,you could only control his class.All the weapons in the game looked like one hand axes,there was no armor,although there was dialogue and choice element,although somewhat simplified.

Still it's probably the greatest RPG to date,story wise(that's subjective).

Anyway,RPG is not something set in stone.Every JRPG has a prefixed character that you don't even have a say in his dialogue,you just play through a story and level up.

Still a role playing game is about taking a role.

Even if that role is a prefixed character you didn't design.Some flavor,is sure nice,like getting to decide what he says,his impact on the world etc.

RPGs have the following things common : 1)a Role(either class or something prefixed),2)Leveling up,3)Getting equipment(although in some jrpgs it doesn't even show),4)party system,either solo with ai party,or bg like party(and some banter between it).Yeah these are your 4 pillars,setting the story aside.

How complex is the role,the lvl up system or the stats if any,or the equipment management,or the party system,is of no importance to define an RPG.Still,the more simplified these 4 elements are,the more badass the story needs to be,since you'll need something to keep the gamers playing.

In the end,i care about playing a good game with these elements,which i hope will be set in high standards.I don't really care if it feels like Baldur's Gate.since i only liked it because it was something new,a breakthrough for the time.

I can assure you these 4 pillars will be intact,i just want to play a good game.