162 réponses à ce sujet

[Itkovian]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Two points:
1- Your Warden has an ending already, or at least a climax: you saved Thedas. Stopped the 5th Blight. You are now numbered amongst the greatest heroes in history.
That was your story. Regardless of whether he/she died in doing so or lived to go on his Calling, stopping the Blight was his major achievement, and anybody would be hard pressed to top that.
2- Your decisions as a warden WILL matter. That's why we get to import our DAO savegame in DA2, even though we're playing a completely different character.
3- Awakenings did not screw the Ultimate Sacrifice ending. In DA2 we will still be able to import the DAO savegame with our choices from there. They are not making Awakenings critical to maintaining the storyline into DA2. So when I play DA2, it will be with my DAO savegame, where my warden died stopping the blight and set Alistair on the throne. And Morrigan is off eating puppies in Orlais somewhere.
So yeah, there is no need to keep going with our Wardens. He's done, and it's time for new heroes.
Itkovian

I didn't realize that Anora Cousland's hubby became irrelevant upon taking the throne

I didn't realize that I wrote your Warden was now irrelevant.

If that's the path you chose, then you finish your days as king (or consort to the queen) of Ferelden. You may, or may not, be a good king, but that does not change the fact that your greatest achievement was stopping the 5th Blight.

Being a king doesn't mean you get to go on to do greater things. In fact, I'd say your chances of going off to save the world are significantly lower if you are busy sitting on a throne (especially if the Next Menace is not in Ferelden).

Itkovian

[Akka le Vil]

BelgianGuy wrote...

Akka le Vil, nobody is forcing anything on you. If your character died in Origins, you can play the Orlesian Warden in Awakening IF YOU WANT. Nobody is holding a gun to your head.
However, you are basically saying they shouldn't make games like Awakening, because your choose, US, is in your eyes not fully respected.

So because YOU made the choice of US, nobody else is allowed to play
Awakening (or any other hypothetical Dragon Age game with the same
Warden)?

To be more precise, I'm saying that if they are to do a sequel like Awakening, then they should do it RIGHT.
And the problem is, the bigger the game, the harder it becomes to really be able to include all the widely divergent choices made in the prequel. To the point that it's safe to say it's no more feasible for a full-scaled sequel.

So, as it becomes more and more impossible to make a good sequel including all the choices (due to the far too divergent paths), it boils down to three possibilities :

1- Disregards some possibilities, and make a sequel that consider some choices were/weren't taken. In other words, canonize some choices. That's actually the most used methods (in a totally different genre, Warcraft I and II were dealt with like that, you could win the first as the human or the second as the Orcs, but the canon said Orcs won the first and humans won the second). They COULD use it to make a sequel including the Warden (or a sequel were the Warden is decided to have made the US, or one where he used the DR, whatever).
But in this case, there is no point anymore in using a past savegame, as choices aren't taken into account anymore. It's a perfectly valid decision from Bioware, but it requires to change the direction from "there is no canon" to "there is canon".

2 - Make a bad sequel like Awakening, which felt completely disjointed from the game, and extremely lacking in continuity.

3 - Make a sequel on another character (or set of characters), where the choices from the first game are much more distants and only have peripherical influence, allowing to include all the main choices while still keeping a workable amount of game materials.

The third method feels best to me, because it respects everyone's choices. Sure, you won't be able to play your Warden anymore, but she still exists somewhere, she's just no the focus of the story. Beats throwing the choices of some people (considering the philosophy of the game based on "choices matter").
Though honestly, if the choice 3 wasn't an option, I'd even prefer the first one to the second.

Now, while not every aspect of trolling applies to you, posting an insult with the intent of provoking another user into an emotional response IS trolling.
By calling dheer a hypocrite, you insulted him, also knowing he would respond to it. Luckily, from what I've seen, dheer was very mature about it, and didn't take your troll-bait. He remained calm, and tried to explain his opinion again, giving it in a clear and non-insulting way.

Well, maybe you should take a closer look.
Calling someone an hypocrite is an insult only if it's false. Hypocrite is not simply an insult, it's the description of a behaviour where one's acts are contradictory to one's statements.

Someone who wants his choices to be preserved, but doesn't care if others' aren't, IS an hypocrite. That's the definition. If I say "it's not acceptable that you force your choice on me !" but at the same time I support making a sequel that validates my choices and not yours, that's hypocrisy. And that's EXACTLY what he has done.
He's the one saying that "you just have to undo your choices to play, that's ok" (so in other words : "your choices don't matter") at the same time he's mad at the idea that someone else could force his choice on him.
You're welcome to try to explain me that saying "I want my choices to be validated" while saying to others "hey, just undo your choices, no problem" is NOT hypocrisy, but as it's exactly the definition, you'd better have a very, very good argumentation.

And no, he didn't act maturely in any way. Snide remarks and calling someone a troll isn't acting mature.

However, again, you started claiming he is not entitled to an opinion, calling him immature and ego-centrical, and being a hypocrit yourself by saying HE is throwing dirt, while you're the only one doing that.
(I'm sorry if I sound like a hypocrite: calling trolls trolls can be seen as a trolling act too.)

And calling hypocrites hypocrites can be seen as a trolling act too, even if it's just seeing a fact.
Looks familar ?

Now, I understand where you're coming from. Most people want their story to continue, and if that's not possible, have no continuing story at all. And isn't that one of the reasons why they're going with Hawke? Mass Effect 2 showed how hard it is to actually have continuity (although they promised it would be better in Mass Effect 3). Taking another character is a logical and good solution.
I do want my story to be continued. I want to be able to search for Morrigan, or rule next to Allistair, or travel with my beloved Leliana to Orlais,...
I know they won't make that sequel, I understand why. But, sir, that does not mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion or dreams.

Of course you've every right to have opinions and dreams. I never said that someone should not have either - as long as you respect others' too, and don't pretend yours are more worthy of a sequel and Bioware should act around them and not bother as much with others' choices.

[In Exile]

SirOccam wrote...

I'm not one of those who still insist that DA2 should be about the Warden, but on the other hand, 30 years is a long time (assuming the Warden didn't die killing the AD). It seemed like there should be plenty more good that he could do that didn't involve killing an Archdemon. Grey Wardens have to keep themselves busy between Blights somehow, and there appeared to be plenty of plot fodder for future stories. It'd be like stopping the story of Luke Skywalker after A New Hope. Yes he destroyed the Death Star; great victory, but it doesn't mean there's nothing else he can do.

The problem with this is basically that you have to start making assumptions. DA:AA was not a game I would ever replay, because it breaks all of my characters. I've never had a Grey Warden that wanted to be a Grey Warden, and more importantly identified with the role of a Warden. None of my characters would continue as Wardens short of conscription, which is pretty much what happened the first time, when Duncan legally kidnapped me and infected me with a crippling chronic illness.

There's just no way to do this well without overwriting motivations. Open-ended characters do not work in sequels, unless they can come up with motivation hooks.

[MKDAWUSS]

Itkovian wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

Two points:
1- Your Warden has an ending already, or at least a climax: you saved Thedas. Stopped the 5th Blight. You are now numbered amongst the greatest heroes in history.
That was your story. Regardless of whether he/she died in doing so or lived to go on his Calling, stopping the Blight was his major achievement, and anybody would be hard pressed to top that.
2- Your decisions as a warden WILL matter. That's why we get to import our DAO savegame in DA2, even though we're playing a completely different character.
3- Awakenings did not screw the Ultimate Sacrifice ending. In DA2 we will still be able to import the DAO savegame with our choices from there. They are not making Awakenings critical to maintaining the storyline into DA2. So when I play DA2, it will be with my DAO savegame, where my warden died stopping the blight and set Alistair on the throne. And Morrigan is off eating puppies in Orlais somewhere.
So yeah, there is no need to keep going with our Wardens. He's done, and it's time for new heroes.
Itkovian

I didn't realize that Anora Cousland's hubby became irrelevant upon taking the throne

I didn't realize that I wrote your Warden was now irrelevant.

If that's the path you chose, then you finish your days as king (or consort to the queen) of Ferelden. You may, or may not, be a good king, but that does not change the fact that your greatest achievement was stopping the 5th Blight.

Being a king doesn't mean you get to go on to do greater things. In fact, I'd say your chances of going off to save the world are significantly lower if you are busy sitting on a throne (especially if the Next Menace is not in Ferelden).

Itkovian

Well, my Warden didn't become a monarch of Ferelden, but to imply that his or her story/impact would be finished after taking the throne is kind of... off. As head of the country, you're still going to be a major mover and shaker in the world. Not every Warden's storyline or impact is finished. Some are and some aren't, but the blanket implication of it can be a bit... cheap.

[Sir JK]

The problem with continuing the Warden's tale is that there is so many different ways the Warden's tale could continue in. The warden as a character might travel the world, possibly to Par Vollen with Sten or perhaps somewhere else. The warden might stay in Ferelden and build the order to fighting strength and handle his/her other possible responsibilities. The warden might go after Morrigan (who may or may not have a baby). The wardne might be a monarch. The warden might be dead.



If our choices are to be respected at all, then this new game -must- storywise allow all those possibilities. Which in itself is a problem since each one of them is a story's worth in itself. And if the sacrefice is to be respected then the sequel must allow for the possibility of creating a new protagonist.



A new, completely random warden which apparently is just as strong and for some reason wants to go after Morrigan, accompany his new best friend Sten to Par Vollen, rule Ferelden and/or attend various duties.



One alternative is that a new story is begun and our warden (or a new one) is added to it, with the possibility of experiencing some choices in side quests. Which many would probably feel was a cheap way to handle it.



Another alternative is to simply invalidate some endings and create a canon and make a game around that. But then our choices in the ending of the first game doesn't really matter at all.



Another concern is that if our warden has indeed stopped a Blight, what will be a appropriate thing to do now? Stop another blight, this time led by two archdemons? Visit the Black city and fight the maker? Unite the entire world as emperor of it all? Save "Kitty" out of a tree?



I think that the best soloution is indeed the one Bioware chose, make a new game with a new Protagonist and a new story and have all our choices, regardless of which ones they were, matter equally.

The story of the warden is over, because that story was how the warden stopped the Blight. The warden's life might not be over, but the story is (unless you count Morrigan's baby as part of that story, then it's shifting into part 2 which is a entire story in itself).

[dheer]

Akka le Vil wrote...
Calling someone an hypocrite is an insult only if it's false

Exactly, hence your insult.

Someone who wants his choices to be preserved, but doesn't care if others' aren't, IS an hypocrite....

The US ending is preserved. There was a heroic end for that character. That's the end of the story for that Warden. Someone else's character continuing on to do something else, like Awakening, doesn't invalidate anyone or anything.

I do think it's ok to undo your choice to play in the expansion pack. I'm fine with it. It doesn't make it some grand insult to everyone that chose the US. I don't think it's fair to make someone replay the last parts of the first game just to make a different choice so they can play the character they want.

Modifié par dheer, 13 août 2010 - 06:02 .

[Akka le Vil]

Great post, Sir JK, you point adequately the problems of making a sequel including the Warden in the current state.

dheer wrote...

Exactly, hence your insult.


The US ending is preserved. There was a heroic end for that character. That's the end of the story for that Warden. Someone else's character continuing on to do something else, like Awakening, doesn't invalidate anyone or anything.

I do think it's ok to undo your choice to play in the expansion pack. I'm fine with it. It doesn't make it some grand insult to everyone that chose the US. I don't think it's fair to make someone replay the last parts of the first game just to make a different choice so they can play the character they want.

So you refuse to have other's choices forced on you, but you consider it ok that people have to undo their choices (which is PRECISELY "having other's choices forced on them"). That's the very definition of hypocrisy, so no insult from my part, just looking at FACTS.
Now, I've pointed this about ten times, and you still pretend it didn't happen or that it isn't hypocrisy. I'm afraid there is nothing more to be done when someone caught red-handed just pretend he didn't do it all the while continuing to do exactly the same.

Or maybe you just don't want to realize that saying to someone "the only solution is just to undo your choices and take this one" is the very definition of "forcing one choice upon someone", in which case it's exactly like I said earlier, and you have a serious unability to understand simple concepts.

In both cases, it's up to you to get it, because I really can't do anything more.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 14 août 2010 - 10:48 .

[AlexXIV]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Great post, Sir JK, you point adequately the problems of making a sequel including the Warden in the current state.

dheer wrote...

Exactly, hence your insult.


The US ending is preserved. There was a heroic end for that character. That's the end of the story for that Warden. Someone else's character continuing on to do something else, like Awakening, doesn't invalidate anyone or anything.

I do think it's ok to undo your choice to play in the expansion pack. I'm fine with it. It doesn't make it some grand insult to everyone that chose the US. I don't think it's fair to make someone replay the last parts of the first game just to make a different choice so they can play the character they want.

So you refuse to have other's choices forced on you, but you consider it ok that people have to undo their choices (which is PRECISELY "having other's choices forced on them"). That's the very definition of hypocrisy, so no insult from my part, just looking at FACTS.
Now, I've pointed this about ten times, and you still pretend it didn't happen or that it isn't hypocrisy. I'm afraid there is nothing more to be done when someone caught red-handed just pretend he didn't do it all the while continuing to do exactly the same.

Or maybe you just don't want to realize that saying to someone "the only solution is just to undo your choices and take this one" is the very definition of "forcing one choice upon someone", in which case it's exactly like I said earlier, and you have a serious unability to understand simple concepts.

In both cases, it's up to you to get it, because I really can't do anything more.

While I don't approve of your choice of words, I see where you are comming from. For people who chose the US a new game featuring the Warden would be a slap in the face. Bioware made it difficult for themselves to continue the Warden's story beyond DA:O. Whether they did it on purpose because they never actually planned on it, or whether they just realized it after it was too late remains unknown (to us). It seems Bioware is reluctant to address this by saying there won't be a new DA game for the Warden or that there will be one. All they say is the story is not finished which could mean anything from a 400 points dlc to a whole series of complete games. Anyway it seems there is nothing they can do now that would not disappoint people either way.

[Bobad]

Would people even have been considering the Warden continuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer in ME series?

[AlexXIV]

Bobad wrote...

Would people even have been considering the Warden continuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer in ME series?

ME is not the first game doing that. Also I think the real question is, would people even have been considering the Warden continiuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer from DA:O to DA:A?

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 août 2010 - 11:09 .

[faction699]

Bobad wrote...

Would people even have been considering the Warden continuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer in ME series?

There's the fact you have a post game save, you know.

Regardless, I doubt the DA:O's Wardens story is completely over.  It's true that there isn't much that can top stopping the blight, but we already (apparently) have wind of the Warden playing some part in DA2.  I doubt we'll see another game with the DA:O Warden as the main character, but perhaps the cameo/whatever in DA2 won't be the last we see of him/her. 

Who knows! All I know is it's pretty normal for people to become attached to a character in a game with such involving dialog like DA:O so it's entirely understandable that people don't want the "And the Warden was never seen again..." etc seen in many of the epilogues to be true.  I certainly don't.  It's lame to simply say that a character is gone and then completely forget that character existed, and 5 second cameos or passing dialog mentions are worse than nothing at all, really.  The lack of closure in Awakening is a big part of why alot of people didn't like it, and it will be a big part of why alot of people don't like DA2, if DA2 is lacking in the continuity department.

[AlexXIV]

faction699 wrote...

Bobad wrote...

Would people even have been considering the Warden continuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer in ME series?

There's the fact you have a post game save, you know.

Regardless, I doubt the DA:O's Wardens story is completely over.  It's true that there isn't much that can top stopping the blight, but we already (apparently) have wind of the Warden playing some part in DA2.  I doubt we'll see another game with the DA:O Warden as the main character, but perhaps the cameo/whatever in DA2 won't be the last we see of him/her. 

Who knows! All I know is it's pretty normal for people to become attached to a character in a game with such involving dialog like DA:O so it's entirely understandable that people don't want the "And the Warden was never seen again..." etc seen in many of the epilogues to be true.  I certainly don't.  It's lame to simply say that a character is gone and then completely forget that character existed, and 5 second cameos or passing dialog mentions are worse than nothing at all, really.  The lack of closure in Awakening is a big part of why alot of people didn't like it, and it will be a big part of why alot of people don't like DA2, if DA2 is lacking in the continuity department.

Well I don't mind if a hero comes from nowhere and goes to nowhere after he is done. But having a hero who is barely adult saving the world within a year and become the greatest, most powerful person of Ferelden, if not all of Thedas then sitting on his butt for the next 30 years until he grows too fat to even fit in the deeproads is kinda hilarious. I wouldn't mind though if the warden made cameo appearances in future games which show he is still active at least.

[filetemo]

what we really need is a DLC for our warden's calling. That would end the story properly.



the warden, alistair, warden commander from orlais, dog or another GW sidekick



we get in the deep roads, kill milions of darkspawn and do something awesome like closing the doors behind us to block darkspawn to allow dwarves to recover an entire kingdom lost centuries ago, or kill an old god before it's born, or kill the spirit of a tevinter mage who was one of the few that originally got into the golden city.



After that, we get overrun by darkspawn and we all die.Now that's a proper ending for the Warden

[faction699]

AlexXIV wrote...

faction699 wrote...

Bobad wrote...

Would people even have been considering the Warden continuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer in ME series?

There's the fact you have a post game save, you know.

Regardless, I doubt the DA:O's Wardens story is completely over.  It's true that there isn't much that can top stopping the blight, but we already (apparently) have wind of the Warden playing some part in DA2.  I doubt we'll see another game with the DA:O Warden as the main character, but perhaps the cameo/whatever in DA2 won't be the last we see of him/her. 

Who knows! All I know is it's pretty normal for people to become attached to a character in a game with such involving dialog like DA:O so it's entirely understandable that people don't want the "And the Warden was never seen again..." etc seen in many of the epilogues to be true.  I certainly don't.  It's lame to simply say that a character is gone and then completely forget that character existed, and 5 second cameos or passing dialog mentions are worse than nothing at all, really.  The lack of closure in Awakening is a big part of why alot of people didn't like it, and it will be a big part of why alot of people don't like DA2, if DA2 is lacking in the continuity department.

Well I don't mind if a hero comes from nowhere and goes to nowhere after he is done. But having a hero who is barely adult saving the world within a year and become the greatest, most powerful person of Ferelden, if not all of Thedas then sitting on his butt for the next 30 years until he grows too fat to even fit in the deeproads is kinda hilarious. I wouldn't mind though if the warden made cameo appearances in future games which show he is still active at least.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly it.  So you form a merry band of adventurers, become their friends, maybe even love them, save the world, and then GO AND DO NOTHING.  Honestly that's a theme in many games that is just way overused.  For once, i'd like to know that the character lived happily ever after rather than DISSAPEARED/DIED.

[Nerevar-as]

faction699 wrote...

Bobad wrote...

Would people even have been considering the Warden continuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer in ME series?

There's the fact you have a post game save, you know.

Regardless, I doubt the DA:O's Wardens story is completely over.  It's true that there isn't much that can top stopping the blight, but we already (apparently) have wind of the Warden playing some part in DA2.  I doubt we'll see another game with the DA:O Warden as the main character, but perhaps the cameo/whatever in DA2 won't be the last we see of him/her. 

Who knows! All I know is it's pretty normal for people to become attached to a character in a game with such involving dialog like DA:O so it's entirely understandable that people don't want the "And the Warden was never seen again..." etc seen in many of the epilogues to be true.  I certainly don't.  It's lame to simply say that a character is gone and then completely forget that character existed, and 5 second cameos or passing dialog mentions are worse than nothing at all, really.  The lack of closure in Awakening is a big part of why alot of people didn't like it, and it will be a big part of why alot of people don't like DA2, if DA2 is lacking in the continuity department.

Hero of Neverwinter, the plots left hanging were closed with another character. Revan and Exile are heading this way too[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie].
BW involved in both.
About DA2, now it feels like changing main character between seasons in a series without explanation. This usually doesn´t go well.

[faction699]

Nerevar-as wrote...

faction699 wrote...

Bobad wrote...

Would people even have been considering the Warden continuing if it hadn't been for the character transfer in ME series?

There's the fact you have a post game save, you know.

Regardless, I doubt the DA:O's Wardens story is completely over.  It's true that there isn't much that can top stopping the blight, but we already (apparently) have wind of the Warden playing some part in DA2.  I doubt we'll see another game with the DA:O Warden as the main character, but perhaps the cameo/whatever in DA2 won't be the last we see of him/her. 

Who knows! All I know is it's pretty normal for people to become attached to a character in a game with such involving dialog like DA:O so it's entirely understandable that people don't want the "And the Warden was never seen again..." etc seen in many of the epilogues to be true.  I certainly don't.  It's lame to simply say that a character is gone and then completely forget that character existed, and 5 second cameos or passing dialog mentions are worse than nothing at all, really.  The lack of closure in Awakening is a big part of why alot of people didn't like it, and it will be a big part of why alot of people don't like DA2, if DA2 is lacking in the continuity department.

Hero of Neverwinter, the plots left hanging were closed with another character. Revan and Exile are heading this way too[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie].
BW involved in both.
About DA2, now it feels like changing main character between seasons in a series without explanation. This usually doesn´t go well.

Well, from what we're hinted at, at the very least the characters from DA:O are not forgotten about and explained away as gone forever.  I havn't played NWN, but NWN2 is pretty close to both KOTOR games endings (I know BioWare didn't make a few of these games, but still, i'm trying to draw the point home that it's cliche).  I mean, KOTOR's ending was pretty lame.  Then in KOTOR2... YOUR CHARACTER DOES THE EXACT. SAME. THING.  Ugh.

Even a small cameo where we see our Warden is still out and about will be far better than that.

[In Exile]

filetemo wrote...

what we really need is a DLC for our warden's calling. That would end the story properly.

the warden, alistair, warden commander from orlais, dog or another GW sidekick

we get in the deep roads, kill milions of darkspawn and do something awesome like closing the doors behind us to block darkspawn to allow dwarves to recover an entire kingdom lost centuries ago, or kill an old god before it's born, or kill the spirit of a tevinter mage who was one of the few that originally got into the golden city.

After that, we get overrun by darkspawn and we all die.Now that's a proper ending for the Warden

The problem is that this forces onto the player the identity of a Grey Warden. Dragon Age was bad at this throughout, but they sort of leave open the possibility at times to be a reluctant Grey Warden (versus a reluctant hero, per se) and let you end the game by giving the finger to the Warden order and living out your life doing something else.

DA:A screwed this up by forcing you as the Warden Commander, and forcing you into a calling would be the same thing. What if you rolled a bloodmage like Avernus to extend your life unnaturally to research and try to cure yourself of the taint?

[BlackyBlack]

People don't seem to realize that 80% of sequels have a different protagonist and different characters:

SW: KOTOR2, NwN2, The Elder Scroll series, Fable series, Vampire: The Masquerade series, Final Fantasy series, Fallout series, Metal Gear Solid series, Devil May Cry 4, Manhunt 2, GTA series, Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, True Crime series, Call of Duty series, Resident Evil series, Mafia 2, Godfather 2, BioShock 2, Medal of Honor series, Brothers in Arms series, Soul Reaver etc etc...

[Nerevar-as]

BlackyBlack wrote...

People don't seem to realize that 80% of sequels have a different protagonist and different characters:
SW: KOTOR2, NwN2, The Elder Scroll series, Fable series, Vampire: The Masquerade series, Final Fantasy series, Fallout series, Metal Gear Solid series, Devil May Cry 4, Manhunt 2, GTA series, Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, True Crime series, Call of Duty series, Resident Evil series, Mafia 2, Godfather 2, BioShock 2, Medal of Honor series, Brothers in Arms series, Soul Reaver etc etc...

These usually don´t involve leaving several plots the main character is directly involved in unresolved, as DA:O&A did. A proper closure to the possible paths for the Warden would deal with many unhappy people. But if OG/DS are involved it should be a GW matter.
Also, it is really hard to believe the reason for not being able to play elf/dwarf in DA2 is not the VO. If we go to racism as a excuse, mages have it as bad/worse than those and Hawke can still be one. (Are there mentions to human racism against dwarfs anyway?)

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 14 août 2010 - 11:49 .

[filetemo]

In Exile wrote...

 What if you rolled a bloodmage like Avernus to extend your life unnaturally to research and try to cure yourself of the taint?

you have no grey wardens left to experiment with, and you can't forece regular people to become warden's, they'll refuse to do it or die in the joining In case you knew how to prepare the joining ritual, which only riordan and duncan knew.

besides, if you wanted to refuse your calling, you'd die from craziness in some poor manner, or become a ghoul. That's nowhere near as epic as doing your calling. Besides a calling giving proper closure to the story, since the calling can occur after whatever crazy adventure you imagined for your warden or bioware launched as dlc

[faction699]

filetemo wrote...

In Exile wrote...

 What if you rolled a bloodmage like Avernus to extend your life unnaturally to research and try to cure yourself of the taint?

you have no grey wardens left to experiment with, and you can't forece regular people to become warden's, they'll refuse to do it or die in the joining In case you knew how to prepare the joining ritual, which only riordan and duncan knew.

besides, if you wanted to refuse your calling, you'd die from craziness in some poor manner, or become a ghoul. That's nowhere near as epic as doing your calling. Besides a calling giving proper closure to the story, since the calling can occur after whatever crazy adventure you imagined for your warden or bioware launched as dlc

This is all 30 years in the future.  DA2 takes place over what, a little less than 10 years after the Blight ended? DA:O is probably a year or two.  That leaves  quite a few years left over in our current timeline for more Dragon Age games.  I don't think we need this type of DLC at all with this in mind - I don't paticulary care about how my Warden "ends" 30 years after his joining.  I care about what he does between the end of the Blight and his Calling.  Everyone dies, after all.  It doesn't bring me closure to know that yes, eventually, he died, and nothing more.

Modifié par faction699, 14 août 2010 - 11:54 .

[filetemo]

oh, and:

In Exile wrote...
The problem is that this forces onto the player the identity of a Grey Warden. Dragon Age was bad at this throughout, but they sort of leave open the possibility at times to be a reluctant Grey Warden (versus a reluctant hero, per se) and let you end the game by giving the finger to the Warden order and living out your life doing something else.

it doesn't matter if you want to pretend you dislike being a warden
if you give the finger to the warden order, you'll still feel the calling. if you choose to not die in the deep roads, you'd become a ghoul and get killed by patrolling soldiers, looters, or anybody with a bow and arrows. How epic is that?

[filetemo]

faction699 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

In Exile wrote...

 What if you rolled a bloodmage like Avernus to extend your life unnaturally to research and try to cure yourself of the taint?

you have no grey wardens left to experiment with, and you can't forece regular people to become warden's, they'll refuse to do it or die in the joining In case you knew how to prepare the joining ritual, which only riordan and duncan knew.

besides, if you wanted to refuse your calling, you'd die from craziness in some poor manner, or become a ghoul. That's nowhere near as epic as doing your calling. Besides a calling giving proper closure to the story, since the calling can occur after whatever crazy adventure you imagined for your warden or bioware launched as dlc

This is all 30 years in the future.  DA2 takes place over what, a little less than 10 years after the Blight ended? DA:O is probably a year or two.  That leaves  quite a few years left over in our current timeline for more Dragon Age games.  I don't think we need this type of DLC at all with this in mind - I don't paticulary care about how my Warden "ends" 30 years after his joining.  I care about what he does between the end of the Blight and his Calling.  Everyone dies, after all.  It doesn't bring me closure to know that yes, eventually, he died, and nothing more.

DA2 doesn't feature the warden, so the moment to give closure to the warden story is here and now.Do you really think they will bring him back for DA3? Will most people care about the warden 4 years in the future when/if DA3 gets released?
DA is dark fantasy, so a tragic/epic ending with fireworks and the warden dying is the way to go

[faction699]

filetemo wrote...

faction699 wrote...

filetemo wrote...

In Exile wrote...

 What if you rolled a bloodmage like Avernus to extend your life unnaturally to research and try to cure yourself of the taint?

you have no grey wardens left to experiment with, and you can't forece regular people to become warden's, they'll refuse to do it or die in the joining In case you knew how to prepare the joining ritual, which only riordan and duncan knew.

besides, if you wanted to refuse your calling, you'd die from craziness in some poor manner, or become a ghoul. That's nowhere near as epic as doing your calling. Besides a calling giving proper closure to the story, since the calling can occur after whatever crazy adventure you imagined for your warden or bioware launched as dlc

This is all 30 years in the future.  DA2 takes place over what, a little less than 10 years after the Blight ended? DA:O is probably a year or two.  That leaves  quite a few years left over in our current timeline for more Dragon Age games.  I don't think we need this type of DLC at all with this in mind - I don't paticulary care about how my Warden "ends" 30 years after his joining.  I care about what he does between the end of the Blight and his Calling.  Everyone dies, after all.  It doesn't bring me closure to know that yes, eventually, he died, and nothing more.

DA2 doesn't feature the warden, so the moment to give closure to the warden story is here and now.Do you really think they will bring him back for DA3? Will most people care about the warden 4 years in the future when/if DA3 gets released?
DA is dark fantasy, so a tragic/epic ending with fireworks and the warden dying is the way to go

There were strong hints in a recent article that the Warden makes an appearance in DA2, actually.  Nothing definitive, but knowing that we're importing our saves, I wouldn't be surprised, especially with the hints given.

You never know what could happen with future games.  Maybe you can import your DA2 save into DA3, maybe you also imported your DA:O save into that DA2 game, and in DA3 you run into your Warden in the Deep Roads as he/she is trying in vain to get killed by Darkspawn who are just too weak to finish him/her.  I'm not saying our Warden will be the protagonist of another game (though of course, i'd love that - i'm a realist, though), but small roles are definitely quite possible, and if the hints at a DA2 appearance are true, it just makes it all the more likely we might see more in future DA games.

[In Exile]

filetemo wrote...

you have no grey wardens left to experiment with, and you can't forece regular people to become warden's, they'll refuse to do it or die in the joining In case you knew how to prepare the joining ritual, which only riordan and duncan knew.

We have 30 years and a lot of peasats to go on. Who knows what a dedicated mage can do?

besides, if you wanted to refuse your calling, you'd die from craziness in some poor manner, or become a ghoul. That's nowhere near as epic as doing your calling. Besides a calling giving proper closure to the story, since the calling can occur after whatever crazy adventure you imagined for your warden or bioware launched as dlc

Who cares whether or not its epic? You are forcing a particular character interpretation on me: someone who cares about dying in an epic way instead of a desperate, selfish person who does not want to die and hates Duncan for forcing him into a crippling chronic illness to fight the darkspawn.

Now, for some of my characters, a calling ending makes perfect sense. But not for every character, which is the probem with these sequels - they basically tell you to take any character that doesn't fit the motivation and shove it.

filetemo wrote...
it doesn't matter if you want to pretend you
dislike being a warden
if you give the finger to the warden order,
you'll still feel the calling. if you choose to not die in the deep
roads, you'd become a ghoul and get killed by patrolling soldiers,
looters, or anybody with a bow and arrows. How epic is that?

Again, who cares? Not to mention that Avernus lived a good 200 years before feeling the calling, and if you were start and didn't kill him you don't even need to repeat his research from his very detailed research notes that you have!

Just because you think a particular thing is epic has nothing to do with what could be epic.