143 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Faust1979 wrote...

inventory management has always been annoying in roleplaying games having to loot bodies just so you have to drag a lot of crap back so you can sell it. It would be awesome if we just found money on the bodies or certain kinds of treasure that way we could take it back to a vendor and be able to choose the things we really want instead of having a whole lot of useless stuff that way we can get to the stuff I really want to do doing side quests or main quests

The way to solve that is to have realistic load limits.  If you can't carry more than 2 extra swords, then you won't have to drag 20 extra swords back to town.

This also solves the realistic drops problem.  Some people want every enemy they kill to have a lootable version of everything they could be seen to have been wearing.  The argument against this is that it creates too much loot to sift through, but if we had realistic limits to how much we could carry then having every enemy we face drop a sword and a full set of armour would make not material difference to gameplay (unless you ran back to town 3 times for every group of bandits you killed - and if you're doing that you deserve all the frustration and monotony it brings).  All it would do is improve verisimilitude.

[IRMcGhee]

Having realistic limits on what you can carry was essentially what they did with ME2's inventory (one armour set, one of each gun) and look at all the whining that caused. The DA:O inventory is fine for a traditional RPG, but I wouldn't be too bothered if they did strip it down a bit.



Of all recent RPGs, I like The Witcher's system best. You have armour/weapons slots like ME2 has, plus limited space for miscellaneous bits and bobs and a separate bag for alchemical supplies.

[Havokk7]

IRMcGhee wrote...

Of all recent RPGs, I like The Witcher's system best. You have armour/weapons slots like ME2 has, plus limited space for miscellaneous bits and bobs and a separate bag for alchemical supplies.

I feel that The Witcher's inventory is too limited. For example, you can only carry one sword (apart from the two special ones). Swords and axes sell for a fair bit of money; money you are often in need of. After killing a bunch of bandits who all drop swords, it would be nice to gather them up and take them back to town to sell. You can't do this, however.

The choice of items in The Witcher is much larger than ME2.

For example, my ME2 Adept can use Pistols and SMGs. At the beginning of each mission I decide which pistol I want, from a choice of two models (which are not very different). and which SMG I want, from a choice of two. That's my weapon choice. If there are other characters in my squad who can use pistols, I decide which pistol they get, with a choice of the same two models.

Imagine DA:O where there are only two swords and two daggers and two bows and two two-handed swords in the whole game.  Oh, and no rings, no belts, and no amulets. Imagine there are only five sets of armour in the whole game. Also imagine that the armour is only for your Warden - the companions can't change their armour at all. Then you understand what the "inventory" is like in ME2.

B

[Sylvius the Mad]

IRMcGhee wrote...

Having realistic limits on what you can carry was essentially what they did with ME2's inventory (one armour set, one of each gun) and look at all the whining that caused.

But they also eliminated all the loot.  You couldn't pick up other people's weapons and armour, and your swadmates didn't get armour at all.

I'm saying that if you dramatically increase the loot (a good feature from a realism standpoint) you create a bunch of problems that can easily be solved by adding another realistic feature (load limits).

And regardless, ME2 didn't have realistic load limits.  Shepard was carrying around a dozen weapons or more, some of them quite large.  That's the only way to explain those weapon loadout kiosks in the middle of missions.

[addiction21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

IRMcGhee wrote...

Having realistic limits on what you can carry was essentially what they did with ME2's inventory (one armour set, one of each gun) and look at all the whining that caused.

But they also eliminated all the loot.  You couldn't pick up other people's weapons and armour, and your swadmates didn't get armour at all.

I'm saying that if you dramatically increase the loot (a good feature from a realism standpoint) you create a bunch of problems that can easily be solved by adding another realistic feature (load limits).

And regardless, ME2 didn't have realistic load limits.  Shepard was carrying around a dozen weapons or more, some of them quite large.  That's the only way to explain those weapon loadout kiosks in the middle of missions.

I can get behind that type of inventory as long as:
1. Our money is not directly tied to how much junk we drag back to town.  Give us a variety of ways to earn some cash. Especially if there going to be things like the crafting recipes again. For myself I generally did not get into the special weapons and armor that cost a good chunk of change but could still find myself low on funds.
2. NO INVENTORY TETRIS!!!  I just really despise that system. Works great for some games like X-com and such (we really need a new one of those but thats a different thread)

[Arrtis]

David Gaider wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Yes, there will be inventory.

Christ, Mike-- you're only encouraging Sylvius the Mad to go into his Rain Man-like trance as he starts spouting off his Theory of Inventory Implosion again.

Sigh...

Yes we need to be starved of dev responses so we stop putting out baits.

[Sylvius the Mad]

addiction21 wrote...

1. Our money is not directly tied to how much junk we drag back to town.

Realistically, how valuable is a used sword or damaged armour?

If I take the time (a stupid amount of time) to carry all that back to town, sure, I'll probably earn more money, but it shouldn't be anything close to the fastest or most fun way to get cash.

2. NO INVENTORY TETRIS!!!

Inventory Tetris has some advantages.  Until I see some way to get those advantages back with a list, I'm going to oppose lists (and do so vehemently).

Those advantages are a superior user interface.  Gear stays where you put it.  So once you've arranged things, you know that your potion of Owl's Wisdom is third from the left and second from the bottom.  When you want it, you just go there.  There's no need to browse the inventory or read any tooltips or even decipher icons.  You know where things are because you put them there and there they stayed.

A slot-based inventory system like BG had avoids tetris, but also has the UI benefits of tetris.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 26 août 2010 - 06:26 .

[Punahedan]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

2. NO INVENTORY TETRIS!!!

Inventory Tetris has some advantages.  Until I see some way to get those advantages back with a list, I'm going to oppose lists (and do so vehemently).

Those advantages are a superior user interface.  Gear stays where you put it.  So once you've arranged things, you know that your potion of Owl's Wisdom is third from the left and second from the bottom.  When you want it, you just go there.  There's no need to browse the inventory or read any tooltips or even decipher icons.  You know where things are because you put them there and there they stayed.

A slot-based inventory system like BG had avoids tetris, but also has the UI benefits of tetris.

As always, Sylvius, I back you on this one. I HATE the inventory in DAO and ME. I loathe going to stores and I hate exchanging equipment because it takes more effort than supposed inventory tetris. I take longer in finding things.

It's like having someone walk into your room or home and start arranging things the way they "should" be arranged. So now everything I've purposely put someplace so that I can find it and because I like it there is suddenly missing and in disarray. How anyone can find that more comfortable, at least on the PC (I have no idea how comfortable or uncomfortable it is on the console), is beyond me.

[Arrtis]

THey should divide inventory into slots.

INstead of weapons items and so on.

It should be plot items.

Useable item*which is there*

then rarity.

common

uncommon

etc

Should make filtering the garbage vendor stuff from the important weapons and armor easier.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Arrtis wrote...

THey should divide inventory into slots.
INstead of weapons items and so on.
It should be plot items.
Useable item*which is there*
then rarity.
common
uncommon
etc
Should make filtering the garbage vendor stuff from the important weapons and armor easier.

No, the game should never tell me which items are plot items.  That's meta-game information.  if I sell a plot item because I didn't pay attention to the quest giver, that's my fault.

[Litos456]

Probably.

They're not going all anti-RPG like they did with ME2. Well, ME2 is still an RPG, but like, it's kind of a mesh between several genres.



The thing with Mass Effect is that even the first game wasn't really an RPG, it was still a mesh. Dragon Age Origins, on the other hand, was, so I'm pretty sure an inventory will be present in DA2, else that'd stray too far from what the Dragon Age franchise stands for. They don't have the necessity to make such changes.

[addiction21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

1. Our money is not directly tied to how much junk we drag back to town.

Realistically, how valuable is a used sword or damaged armour?

If I take the time (a stupid amount of time) to carry all that back to town, sure, I'll probably earn more money, but it shouldn't be anything close to the fastest or most fun way to get cash.

2. NO INVENTORY TETRIS!!!

Inventory Tetris has some advantages.  Until I see some way to get those advantages back with a list, I'm going to oppose lists (and do so vehemently).

Those advantages are a superior user interface.  Gear stays where you put it.  So once you've arranged things, you know that your potion of Owl's Wisdom is third from the left and second from the bottom.  When you want it, you just go there.  There's no need to browse the inventory or read any tooltips or even decipher icons.  You know where things are because you put them there and there they stayed.

A slot-based inventory system like BG had avoids tetris, but also has the UI benefits of tetris.

1. To me its not about how valuable it is. It is if thats my main source of money. DAO and Fallout 3 are the feshist sources in my memory of being your "gold" source. At least F3 has the whole repair system where you can merge things (repairing) to cut down on the weight and it increased the value of those items. I did like that way of doing the inventory. It was left all up to the player. If you increased you strength, repair skill, or picked the right perks you could carry around more stuff while your out on the road so to speak. DAO's was you have this limited space (doesnt matter if your picking up the same type of armor and weapons they each took up a slot) and you had to do this if you were to keep up with all the tomes, backpacks, and crafting recipes.

2. I agree the inventory tetris system has its advantages in some games but in others it is immersion breaking. Others it is just a tedious mechanic. DAO, fallout, bg, drakensang, etc etc those types I find it as a hindrance. In those situations it is not about picking everything up but its more about haveing these long stretchs that you are out in the field finding all kinds of stuff and you have to and run back to town (or whereever) to store the stuff you want to keep either for know or later. Like +damage to this or that or whatever else. +defense (protection to this type of damage.)

I like to hold on to tha type of stuff just in case but when it is tedious like inventory tetris it becomes more of a problem.

I guess it is more about how it works within the game then my personal preference about what I like better as a system.

X-com I loved the inventory system and Fallout 3 I loved that because it fit within the game and did not hinder me so much.

[Malice_Unarmed]

Item variety and lot of loot is part of an RPG. The lack of weapons and armor in ME2 compared to the first really disappointed me. ME1 was loot crazy and it did need some cleaning up but limited so drastically for player character and companions was just wrong. I really hope they don't do this in DA2, total customization is awesome and when you have all this kool medieval armor it would be a shame if they ME2 this to allow new RPG'ers an easy road. I like spending time in inventory, some don't but there has to be a better solution then what they did in ME2.

[Lumikki]

TSamee wrote...

If an RPG like Mass Effect is going to go shooter, then it should go PROPER shooter. Has anybody played Killing Floor? Best gunplay I've ever seen, CoD be damned.

Stupidity like this really ****** me off. Like there is nothing between shooter and traditional RPG, it has to be one or other.

Also most people here has zero clue what's the base difference between ME1 and ME2 inventory systems.

Inventory systems has 3 levels, looting, storage and choosing/customation.

1. Lowest level is looting.

This is where player gets the item, from found in place or looted from bodies. Traditional RPG inventory system is build idea that every item is looted induvidually. Meaning you take two different version of sword from bodies, they are seperated items. Mostly this is done by random loot what sometimes is fitted to target, but sometimes isn't. In ME2 looting is different, you don't loot items same ways. You only loot ammos, money and technology advances. You don't take the riffle or armor of the killed enemy at all. Basicly saying you take only like what's easy to take and usefull, not every "junk".

2. Middle level is storage

This is where player looted items are storaged. In traditional RPG kind of inventory there is usually item limits here as how many items player can totally carry. This is done because looting every induvidual item sooner or later cause huge amount of looted items. With item limits player is forced to sell what player has no use. Because many looted items has no real use for player. Example if you loot sword when you allready have better. So, in traditional RPG it's about changing these "junk" items to money by selling them. So that player can buy something they really need. In ME2 every item is storaged only one time and there is no different version of same items. Meaning players don't loot sword +2, but they loot sword in general, if player has no sword allready. Meaning items aren't induvidual, they are just best version of every different item there is. This cause that because there is no junk items storaged in ME2 inventory system, there is nothing to sell. Also every new "item" is just new technology found, what can be totally new item or improvements to old system. After the research is done, the old item is improved and replaced with this new better one.

3. Top level as choises and customation.

This is interface what provides players the choises. What items to use and what to customise. In general term this is where traditional RPG and ME2 system is most close to each other. Sure, the interface is different, because storage system is little different. But base is pretty same. This is also reason why some people don't like ME2 system, because ME2 has very low customation possibility. How ever, it's not fault of system, but fault of developers not making enough customation. ME1 has alot of more customation, but it has nothign to do with system. For some reason developers just removed alot of customation possibilities what players actually liked.

In general traditional RPG inventory systems fits well in DAO, because DAO is traditional RPG. ME series how ever, is not traditional RPG, so it doesn't really fit there so well. ME serie is more futuristic with research system.

Modifié par Lumikki, 13 septembre 2010 - 11:24 .

[Ciryx]

I think its volusing time.

[Tsuga C]

Bring back the grid/page inventory. List inventories are utterly abominable.

[Clangeddin86]

"What is an inventory?!

A little miserable pile of items!

But enough talk, I wanna play!"

[DracoXero]

This is why some people want to keep the inventory system,  it gives you the ability to choose which is at the core of RPG's. So instead of just making do with the one or two swords and armor  that you have, you choose to find a equipment that is visualy apealing and fits your play style. Also I would miss a loot reward after a hard quest. don't tell me that everyone here did not equip the Warden Commander's Armor and Starfang as soon as they could  After beating back that large wave of demons in the Warden's Keep. They just looked cool and you felt like you earned them. To me using mined resources to upgrade my pistol in ME2 was just not as fun.

Modifié par DracoXero, 12 décembre 2010 - 04:32 .

[AlanC9]

Thread necromancy is so uncool, dude.