96 réponses à ce sujet

[Chross85]

I'm writing this as more or less a way to express my own thoughts and get them on a visual field for me to reediest but also to express a growing fear I have that the storyline of Mass Effect may contain a serious flaw that could more or less cause the conclusion to the story to end in failure and leave a bad taste in the mouth of thousands of gamers.  

In drama the idea of a deus ex machina (Latin) is described as follows in a popular online dictionary:

Deus ex machina [dey-uhs eks mah-kuh-nuh]
noun

1. (in ancient Greek and Roman drama) a god introduced into a play to
resolve the entanglements of the plot.

2. any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a
plot.

The best example, that many would know, that I can come up with is War of the Worlds.  The conclusion of the story ends with the aliens succumbing to the common cold virus and systematically being wiped out.  This is a deus ex machina.  In a story that progresses further and further to the inevitable annihilation of the human race, the author, as if running out of ideas in how to best conclude the story in a happy ending, pulled the common cold virus out of thin air and used it as the catalyst for the aliens destruction (since it was made clear that the humans were helpless to stop the FAR advanced aliens). 

I fear Mass Effect is heading down this same path and feel that this could be a tragic mistake by Mr. Hudson, Mr. Walters, and Mr. Karpyshyn.  In Mass Effect 1 Sovereign, a single Reaper, is able to indoctrinate hundreds if not thousands of individuals.  Shepard then meets Sovereign on Virmire and learns the true motives of the Reapers and just how deep the rabbit hole goes, so to speak.  In its sophisticated speech and ramblings about just how superior the Reapers are to anything else in existence (not unlike the Architect from the Matrix) it is clear we are dealing with something that is on a completely different level than the rest of the species in the game.  It is also learned that nearly all of the high end technology was created by the Reapers and that it was by their design that organic life found it and was “led” on a predetermined path.  At the conclusion, Sovereign is only destroyed when an entire fleet focus fires on it.  This is just ONE Reaper.  Not the millions that Sovereign has seem to suggest will come.  In Mass Effect 2 we learn much more about the Reapers and how powerful they are and it takes nearly all of Shepards power to destroy a single Reaper, not even at full development.

This leads me to believe that the writers will, unfortunately, be forced to use a deus ex machina to end the conflict with the Reapers.  I feel this would be a let down and take away from Shepards hard work.  Mass Effect, I think, deserves a Return of the Jedi esque ending.  Massive space battle with the unified races of the milky way, ground battle with Shepards team, and Shepard himself somehow on his own squaring off with the leader of the Reapers--something like that is how I envision the epic conclusion to be.

Don't get me wrong.  The story is beautifully written and I love it to death.  Perhaps, as with War of the Worlds, the story will still be hugely successful even with a deus ex machina device.  I have never have I been so engrossed in a story, and cared so deeply for the characters and their outcome since I played Xenogears years ago.  I will, most likely, still love the game regardless of whether or not this device is used.  I’m simply just expressing my fears for it.  I don’t think, at this point, they can come up with a believable solution to the Reapers otherwise.

[Exiled Eagle]

Agree with you 150%

[izmirtheastarach]

Not worried at all. Too much buildup for the resolution to be artificial. The more likely literary device we will see is on of the many Chekov's gun instances that have been identified in many many threads.

[AntiChri5]

They already foreshadowed possibilities.

The "beings of light" which protect from "giant machine devils" that a Volus billionaire claims to have had a vision (or is it discovered evidence?) of.

The constant references to dark energy and how it is doing funky things.

The cannon responsible for creating the Great Rift on Klengeddon.

Putting a Thanix cannon on every ship in the galaxy.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 13 août 2010 - 05:34 .

[shootist70]

Hmm..I see where you're coming from, but I think we're jumping the gun here. You fear a deus ex machina resolution because you can't see a solution to the Reaper problem that's consistent with suspension of disbelief. Yet if you could see that potential solution right now, it would mean that the devs had telegraphed the plot conclusion, and that would be some pretty poor story-telling right there. Wouldn't you agree?

[BlackwindTheCommander]

AntiChri5 wrote...

They already foreshadowed possibilities.

The "beings of light" which protect from "giant machine devils" that a Volus billionaire claims to have had a vision (or is it discovered evidence?) of.

The constant references to dark energy and how it is doing funky things.

The cannon responsible for creating the Great Rift on Klengeddon.

Putting a Thanix cannon on every ship in the galaxy.

I think we have a winner!

[poisonoustea]

I also expect the Great Rift weapon, Dark Energy and the Prothean artifacts (Firewalker anyone?) to come into play.

[AntiChri5]

I wouldn't put much faith in Prothean artefacts.

[Inverness Moon]

I think this ties into the decision of whether or not to save the collector base.



If it was me in Shepard's shoes, there would be no way I could justify destroying the base. Because I can't risk the lives of every sentient in the galaxy based on some hope that we'll find some other way (a deus ex machina) to destroy the reapers.

[PseudoEthnic]

Inverness Moon wrote...

I think this ties into the decision of whether or not to save the collector base.

If it was me in Shepard's shoes, there would be no way I could justify destroying the base. Because I can't risk the lives of every sentient in the galaxy based on some hope that we'll find some other way (a deus ex machina) to destroy the reapers.

Our civilizations were built off reaper technology. By keeping the collector base, you're not helping anyone. Besides, I doubt that the only solution to defeat the reapers is in another game.

[DomyB]

I agree it would be very bad if something like that ended the story,but consider this.



It didin't take an entire fleet to take out just Sovereign. It was backed up by a serious amount of geth ships that were on par,if not stronger than the whole standing Citadel army. While Sovereign raced towards the Citadel, the geth were a distraction for the defenders. Of course Sovereign's shields helped but we don't know if that would be the case were it not for the geth backup.



Sovereign used the geth in the first place because it knew it wouldn't stand a chance against a whole united,but otherwise ignorant universe.



Now the Reapers are exposed, not publicly but the major military powers are aware of them and they've lost the element of surprise plus the technological advancement accelerated at the sight of such a poverful enemy. Thanix cannon, anyone? The Collectors already proved this theory, the remains of Normandy v1 decorate a frozen planet, but v2 destroyed the previously superior enemy in direct combat.



Also,ME3 will probably be like Dragon Age, gather allies,reconcile disputes etc.

So,the whole universe, all fleets everywhere, united and prepared for the onslaught? We'll see.

[Inverness Moon]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

I think this ties into the decision of whether or not to save the collector base.

If it was me in Shepard's shoes, there would be no way I could justify destroying the base. Because I can't risk the lives of every sentient in the galaxy based on some hope that we'll find some other way (a deus ex machina) to destroy the reapers.

Our civilizations were built off reaper technology. By keeping the collector base, you're not helping anyone. Besides, I doubt that the only solution to defeat the reapers is in another game.

By keeping the collector base you're giving everyone a better chance of preventing galactic extinction. I also don't know what you meant in your last sentence.

[DomyB]

Also,the unfinished reaper Shepard encounters was destroyed by 3 people, not 3 ships.
Not the best example. All of Shepards power when he's on foot isn't that much to begin with against a ship in space.

Modifié par DomyB, 13 août 2010 - 07:53 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Some sort of ancient super-weapon hidden underneath the surface of Mars which can only be activated by someone with a Prothean mind?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 13 août 2010 - 08:19 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Asari build a mass effect relay.

Pump a star full of dark energy.

Toss star into Reaper fleet.

Hypernova explodes and wipes out the Reapers.

Would be fine with me.

Modifié par PKchu, 13 août 2010 - 08:36 .

[The Interloper]

The crew of the Normandy will sacrifice a cow and Zeus will destroy the Reapers with a lightning bolt.

[redplague]

Are you sure that The War of the Worlds is an example of deus ex machina? If the writer had the idea of aliens being killed by the common cold as his first idea before anything else, does that still qualify as a deus ex machina plot. Honest question, not being provocative.

[Ski Mask Wei]

I'm worried about this too. Especially when the Reapers have to arrive and get defeated all in one game.

[Arijharn]

Personally I hope that by killing the leader Reaper doesn't somehow cause all the other Reapers to mysteriously die simultaneously in some sort of sympathetic death rite.

[AntiChri5]

redplague wrote...

Are you sure that The War of the Worlds is an example of deus ex machina? If the writer had the idea of aliens being killed by the common cold as his first idea before anything else, does that still qualify as a deus ex machina plot. Honest question, not being provocative.

I dont think it matters if the author planned it, if it doesnt flow logically, if a miracle just comes out of nowhere then its a deus ex machina.

[AresXX7]

BlackwindTheCommander wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

They already foreshadowed possibilities.

The "beings of light" which protect from "giant machine devils" that a Volus billionaire claims to have had a vision (or is it discovered evidence?) of.

The constant references to dark energy and how it is doing funky things.

The cannon responsible for creating the Great Rift on Klengeddon.

Putting a Thanix cannon on every ship in the galaxy.

I think we have a winner!

I'm leaning more torwards this myself

[Jamer21]

The Interloper wrote...

The crew of the Normandy will sacrifice a cow and Zeus will destroy the Reapers with a lightning bolt.

lol

[Crabhand]

I can actually see, rather than huge fleet engagements and trying to destroy the reapers outright, Shepard will lead a team (with his squadmates or other Spectres?) leading several other teams of various races into each reaper in an effort to destroy it from the inside. It gives justification to Shepard having strong ground forces and gets around the "what if the fleets fail" scenario. Thinking smaller rather than bigger. Spectres were kind of a big deal in the first game for this very same approach and it was mostly ignored in the second game, so by diverting attention from this fact they could have a not-to-subtle Chekhov's Gun that people wouldn't automatically expect.

Or they could use an Independence Day virus to break all the computers

Modifié par Crabhand, 14 août 2010 - 12:37 .

[Whereto]

I can see for some strange reason a advanced civilisation comes though the citadel and helps everyone fight off the reapers. This civilisation also happens to come from the same galaxy the reapers are from (implying that reapers don't just sit in dark space but have a home galaxy) these people have been fighting the reapers for millions of year as their galaxy is much larger than ours.



After they come through and help fight off the reapers, we find out that the reapers only sent a small force of them and there are actually more.



MORE ME GAMES