OK so I was thinking of an all-purpose Druid-based build and I made one I quite liked, but it then occured to me, is there actually any benefit to being a Druid over a Cleric? I was thinking of Dino Companion just for the awesomeness but if, as a Cleric, you took the Animal Domain, you could get an extra domain, turn undead (and by extension Divine Might / Shield) and spells like Divine Power. Yes you'd lose out on a handful of special abilities and immunities and perhaps some Druid-specific content in a campaign setting, but are they worth it?
Don't get me wrong, I prefer Druid from a flavour point of view, but even with their abilities and Druid-specific spells, they don't seem to match up with Clerics as healers, melee combatants *or* offensive casters.
Druid vs Cleric
Débuté par
The Fred
, août 13 2010 09:44
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#2
Posté 13 août 2010 - 10:12
painofdungeoneternal
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They have the best defenses in game, highest ac, synergy and spells can give them the best wisdom, and while wild shape is not that good, knowing when to choose the right form can make you basically untouchable. They have some good save or die spells too, but they just are not as good at offense as defense.
#3
Posté 14 août 2010 - 06:42
Happycrow
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Backing up what Pain said. My experience has shown me that Druids are effectively a sort of committed aggressive tank, especially at low levels, and their abilities support that role beautifully. The spells *can* be crushingly effective, but they are very rarely the sort of show-stoppers you see on the wizard and cleric spell lists.
#4
Posté 14 août 2010 - 07:03
avado
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While i am biased, it depends on how you like to play.
Druid, to me, is more reliant on the shapes for melee. This, like was said above, takes some skill to figure out. I would have to refresh my memory on druid spells, but they have firestorm which is a great crowd control spell, if you herd the area together first (so you can get more bodies per square inch for better damage). The other thing with druid is, you really need alot of druid levels to make it a go, as i understand it, for things like the shapes and such.
CLeircs, well, the melee gods, as far as i am concerned. ESPECIALLY with SOZ and Living undeath! Not only all the clerical goodies, BUT you have pocket PM to boot. Clerics fit in for what they do: Have some offensive magic (not like sorc or wiz) but if you do it right (herding things to you) then they are much more effective as you are hitting more bodies per cast. You also get DIv power, undead handling ability (the noobies call these Heal and mass heal), not to mention being able to self buff AC and AB! It is a much different approach than simply druid or cleric.
So how do you want to play?
Druid, to me, is more reliant on the shapes for melee. This, like was said above, takes some skill to figure out. I would have to refresh my memory on druid spells, but they have firestorm which is a great crowd control spell, if you herd the area together first (so you can get more bodies per square inch for better damage). The other thing with druid is, you really need alot of druid levels to make it a go, as i understand it, for things like the shapes and such.
CLeircs, well, the melee gods, as far as i am concerned. ESPECIALLY with SOZ and Living undeath! Not only all the clerical goodies, BUT you have pocket PM to boot. Clerics fit in for what they do: Have some offensive magic (not like sorc or wiz) but if you do it right (herding things to you) then they are much more effective as you are hitting more bodies per cast. You also get DIv power, undead handling ability (the noobies call these Heal and mass heal), not to mention being able to self buff AC and AB! It is a much different approach than simply druid or cleric.
So how do you want to play?
#5
Posté 14 août 2010 - 08:16
MasterChanger
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I generally resist jumping into threads about balance, class power and so on, because I disagree with the basic assumptions that underly the discussion. Given that this thread deals with one of my favorite subjects (druids) and one of my pet peeves (clerics), and that it was started by The Fred, who I think shares some of my assumptions, I will stop resisting. 
The most basic assumption is that since we're playing NWN2, the game that shipped as OEI's interpretation of the 3.5 PnP rules, that we should accept either OEI's interpretation or those 3.5 rules as good things. At least regarding clerics and druids, I completely reject that assumption. In 3.5, clerics get their main benefits at level 1 (proficiencies, domains, turn undead) and then continue to grow in power primarily through spell progression. This makes them rife for abuse through the creation of cheesy prestige classes. If you have any PrC that gives any sort of benefit in addition to casting progression for clerics, there's no reason not to take that class unless the pre-requisities are nigh-impossible. What does a cleric/stormlord lose that a pure cleric has? Well, Turn Undead advancement, I suppose--big deal. Some of a cleric's most ridiculous spells, like Divine Power, don't even really depend on caster level in the end.
On the other hand, you have Druids, who, at least in PnP, gain a lot of benefits if you continue with the base class. In addition to spell-casting, more levels give serious improvements to the animal companion, better shapes, and more. This means that it's much harder to create a cheesy PrC that gives something in exchange for losing nothing.
Now bring these issues into NWN2. One of the only limiting factors on clerics, that of choosing domains that make sense with deity, alignment, and RP context, goes right out the window. So the power for clerics becomes inflated even further. The extra spell slot at domain levels doesn't even need to be filled by a domain spell, does it?
Druids, in contrast, have an even worse outlook in NWN2 than in PnP. Wildshapes are terrible (this is a whole sub-topic in itself, but you can neither use the feats from your original form nor gain the appropriate ones for your new form). While animal companions can be decent, they don't scale with magic level of the setting since you can't equip them with anything. And summons are mostly terrible (Elemental Swarm is an exception)--they're weak individually and you can't summon more than one at a time. Most weather and terrain-control abilities that druids have in PnP are just not implemented in NWN2. Poisons are very underwhelming.
The next assumption, and I think this is one that The Fred likely shares, given his other projects, is that we have to accept this situation. We don't, depending on where and how we play. Kaedrin alone makes druids interesting again, through the attention he's paid to shape-shifting and the feats he's created for animal companions. I think he was also working on a GUI-based solution to allowing feat usage while shape-shifted. Bartleby created a system for summoning multiple creatures.
Finally, we can create solutions outside of 3.5 entirely. At times I've felt that I brought up the benefits of Pathfinder so often, I sounded like a broken record even to myself, but I think in this case it's directly applicable. In Pathfinder, clerics don't gain Heavy Armor Proficiency, raising the blasphemous
suggestion that perhaps they shouldn't be the game's best tanks. They also gain a useful feature which scales with class level, Channel Energy, instead of Turn Undead (which is almost entirely useless except for driving other divine feats, at least in NWN2). And the Divine Power spell while still being very strong, at least calculates benefits based on caster level instead of character level.
Now, none of this is to say that it isn't possible to create an interesting and powerful Druid in NWN2 without using any custom content at all. You could create a Druid-Monk-Sacred Fist that will have decent unarmed AB, excellent AC, and some useful abilities (wisdom-driven feats from SF). You will also have some powerful high-DC spells like Storm of Vengeance, Stonehold, Mass Drown, and Sunburst. With high wisdom and disabled enemies, even Creeping Doom can become useful again. None of this will scale well with high magic level environments, however.
In general, I'd say: You have the power. Use it if you so desire!
Also: why are smilies three times too large on this forum in comparison to the text?
The most basic assumption is that since we're playing NWN2, the game that shipped as OEI's interpretation of the 3.5 PnP rules, that we should accept either OEI's interpretation or those 3.5 rules as good things. At least regarding clerics and druids, I completely reject that assumption. In 3.5, clerics get their main benefits at level 1 (proficiencies, domains, turn undead) and then continue to grow in power primarily through spell progression. This makes them rife for abuse through the creation of cheesy prestige classes. If you have any PrC that gives any sort of benefit in addition to casting progression for clerics, there's no reason not to take that class unless the pre-requisities are nigh-impossible. What does a cleric/stormlord lose that a pure cleric has? Well, Turn Undead advancement, I suppose--big deal. Some of a cleric's most ridiculous spells, like Divine Power, don't even really depend on caster level in the end.
On the other hand, you have Druids, who, at least in PnP, gain a lot of benefits if you continue with the base class. In addition to spell-casting, more levels give serious improvements to the animal companion, better shapes, and more. This means that it's much harder to create a cheesy PrC that gives something in exchange for losing nothing.
Now bring these issues into NWN2. One of the only limiting factors on clerics, that of choosing domains that make sense with deity, alignment, and RP context, goes right out the window. So the power for clerics becomes inflated even further. The extra spell slot at domain levels doesn't even need to be filled by a domain spell, does it?
Druids, in contrast, have an even worse outlook in NWN2 than in PnP. Wildshapes are terrible (this is a whole sub-topic in itself, but you can neither use the feats from your original form nor gain the appropriate ones for your new form). While animal companions can be decent, they don't scale with magic level of the setting since you can't equip them with anything. And summons are mostly terrible (Elemental Swarm is an exception)--they're weak individually and you can't summon more than one at a time. Most weather and terrain-control abilities that druids have in PnP are just not implemented in NWN2. Poisons are very underwhelming.
The next assumption, and I think this is one that The Fred likely shares, given his other projects, is that we have to accept this situation. We don't, depending on where and how we play. Kaedrin alone makes druids interesting again, through the attention he's paid to shape-shifting and the feats he's created for animal companions. I think he was also working on a GUI-based solution to allowing feat usage while shape-shifted. Bartleby created a system for summoning multiple creatures.
Finally, we can create solutions outside of 3.5 entirely. At times I've felt that I brought up the benefits of Pathfinder so often, I sounded like a broken record even to myself, but I think in this case it's directly applicable. In Pathfinder, clerics don't gain Heavy Armor Proficiency, raising the blasphemous
suggestion that perhaps they shouldn't be the game's best tanks. They also gain a useful feature which scales with class level, Channel Energy, instead of Turn Undead (which is almost entirely useless except for driving other divine feats, at least in NWN2). And the Divine Power spell while still being very strong, at least calculates benefits based on caster level instead of character level.Now, none of this is to say that it isn't possible to create an interesting and powerful Druid in NWN2 without using any custom content at all. You could create a Druid-Monk-Sacred Fist that will have decent unarmed AB, excellent AC, and some useful abilities (wisdom-driven feats from SF). You will also have some powerful high-DC spells like Storm of Vengeance, Stonehold, Mass Drown, and Sunburst. With high wisdom and disabled enemies, even Creeping Doom can become useful again. None of this will scale well with high magic level environments, however.
In general, I'd say: You have the power. Use it if you so desire!
Also: why are smilies three times too large on this forum in comparison to the text?
Modifié par MasterChanger, 14 août 2010 - 08:19 .
#6
Posté 14 août 2010 - 08:42
Happycrow
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Even without scripting, there are a number of things which can be done to the benefit of the druid as-written (though NWN2's definition of high-magic is a lot closer to "Monty Haul," that's a separate topic entirely). For instance (one example): Combat Expertise and the equivalent doesn't hurt a spelltank much at all. Is it anywhere near as cool as what PnP offers? No... but taking that tack (for example) is one way to make use of what the engine DOES offer, particularly if you're playing a non-lawful druid, or playing in a setting which won't allow the (fairly cheesy) M/SF cross-classing.
#7
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:37
The Fred
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Well, obviously a lot depends on setting, and I know for my own campaign I'm going to be making some tweaks (Clerics have already lost their Heavy Armour Prof) but in a fairly standard NWN2 setting (such as the OC or an expansion), it seems like Druids trade a lot of offense for some defense, and though spells like Stoneskin are awesome, a Cleric can get them with one of their domains.
#8
Posté 16 août 2010 - 02:25
nicethugbert
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Druids suck without Kaedrin's class Pack. The main weakness of a Druid is his AB. What the cleric lacks compared to the druid, it makes up for with high AB which is much better than wildshape and toortoise skin or what ever it's called. Kaedrin addresses the Druid AB weakness with Intuitive Attack, and adds more Druid spells, feats, bug fixes, PrCs, shapes and favorable PnP compliance. Wild shape does not suck when using Kaedrin's class pack.
Battle Clerics are great: High AB, High Melee Damage, High AC, High Saves, Immunities. They are not always the best statistically but they are never the worst
in melee combat. Even if the Druid has the highest AC, it is some what wasted as very few modules will make fighters obsolete by giving the opponents enough AB to challenge a Druid and a cleric can easily meet a fighter's AC and beat it in low magic settings.
Clerics are an awesome walking magic item shop. Being a walking magic item shop has it's advantages, even in high magic worlds. The goodies are just there. So, even if they are not statictically the best all the time, they can be the most comfortable to play.
My standard party consists of a rogue, a warlock, and the rest all clerics if I can.
Battle Clerics are great: High AB, High Melee Damage, High AC, High Saves, Immunities. They are not always the best statistically but they are never the worst
in melee combat. Even if the Druid has the highest AC, it is some what wasted as very few modules will make fighters obsolete by giving the opponents enough AB to challenge a Druid and a cleric can easily meet a fighter's AC and beat it in low magic settings.
Clerics are an awesome walking magic item shop. Being a walking magic item shop has it's advantages, even in high magic worlds. The goodies are just there. So, even if they are not statictically the best all the time, they can be the most comfortable to play.
My standard party consists of a rogue, a warlock, and the rest all clerics if I can.
Modifié par nicethugbert, 16 août 2010 - 02:45 .
#9
Posté 16 août 2010 - 05:43
Belanos
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avado wrote...
I would have to refresh my memory on druid spells, but they have firestorm which is a great crowd control spell, if you herd the area together first (so you can get more bodies per square inch for better damage).
Druids have a number of good AoE spells that will only harm their enemies, not your party. That makes them very useful in a more offensive role, rather than as healers.
#10
Posté 16 août 2010 - 06:23
Happycrow
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As Belanos said - by getting their AC into respectable territory while they deal out spell damage, they can be effective. Their go-to AC booster for nwn2, Elephant's Hide, is also a free action, which means that the Druid doesn't lose as much time getting ready to rock-and-roll the way a cleric can.
However, natural armor is the ONLY buff they get, and they lose out completely on non-animal AB buffs. So as nicethugbert points out, they are a poor choice if you want to put out melee damage. In nwn2, if you want to enjoy having one in the party, you're pretty much forced into playing the role the engine's mechanics allows it to do well. In this respect, it's worthwhile to have the patch allowing multiple summons -- extra Dire Bears never hurt.
However, natural armor is the ONLY buff they get, and they lose out completely on non-animal AB buffs. So as nicethugbert points out, they are a poor choice if you want to put out melee damage. In nwn2, if you want to enjoy having one in the party, you're pretty much forced into playing the role the engine's mechanics allows it to do well. In this respect, it's worthwhile to have the patch allowing multiple summons -- extra Dire Bears never hurt.
#11
Posté 16 août 2010 - 06:24
Happycrow
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It is a real shame the poison and disease spells are so horribly ineffective, however. What should be a very cool line of spells is basically not worth casting.
#12
Posté 17 août 2010 - 05:31
Vaalyah
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Well, in my experience (I have to say that each time on a videogame I use my real D&D character, that is a Cleric, so my experience is biased) druids are almost useless, while I can't live without clerics.
1) they can convert enchantment, that is the best thing. I select whatever enchantment and if I need, I can convert them in cure wounds of the same level. And also in pen&paper D&D, only clerics can do that. This mean you don't need to memorize cure wound spells. Priceless!
2) they can wear decent armour.
3) if you choose wisely the domains, you can get valuable extra spells.
4) turn undead? I love being in cemetery with my party... they are running to fight aggressively, then my PC turns undead and... no one left to fight. Ahaaaaa! I'm proud!
5) they're good in battle, both in attack than in defense.
what does a druid have? the animal companion? I never use them because they're so fragile I am always afraid the can easily die, so for me, druids have not even a single "plus" on their side!
1) they can convert enchantment, that is the best thing. I select whatever enchantment and if I need, I can convert them in cure wounds of the same level. And also in pen&paper D&D, only clerics can do that. This mean you don't need to memorize cure wound spells. Priceless!
2) they can wear decent armour.
3) if you choose wisely the domains, you can get valuable extra spells.
4) turn undead? I love being in cemetery with my party... they are running to fight aggressively, then my PC turns undead and... no one left to fight. Ahaaaaa! I'm proud!
5) they're good in battle, both in attack than in defense.
what does a druid have? the animal companion? I never use them because they're so fragile I am always afraid the can easily die, so for me, druids have not even a single "plus" on their side!
#13
Posté 17 août 2010 - 06:28
Thorsson64
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There's no doubt that Clerics, especially in NWN2, are superior, but a properly built Druid (especially with Monk & SF) can be very strong - just forget melee at higher levels.
#14
Posté 17 août 2010 - 06:42
nicethugbert
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Druids as NPCs can be brutal. My high level PC ran into a bunch of pixie druids in one PW and he had to retreat. They were impossible. Yeah, they had numbers on their side but so did all the other level appropriate mobs my PC destroyed.
But, for a PC and NPC party member, I prefer clerics for much of the reasons already covered.
But, for a PC and NPC party member, I prefer clerics for much of the reasons already covered.
#15
Posté 18 août 2010 - 05:43
The Fred
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Vaalyah wrote...
1) they can convert enchantment, that is the best thing. I select whatever enchantment and if I need, I can convert them in cure wounds of the same level. And also in pen&paper D&D, only clerics can do that. This mean you don't need to memorize cure wound spells. Priceless!
That's true. Druids can spontaneously cast summoning spells, but to my mind the summoning spells in NWN2 are nowhere near as good as they were in NWN1, and they're really annoying 'cos the summoned creatures are huge.
2) they can wear decent armour.
Druids get medium armour so I'm pretty sure they could wear mithril plate (not sure if that's allowed in PnP, but in NWN2 I think it is) and you don't lose much by wearing mithril armour (I mean, what would you be wearing, darksteel?).
3) if you choose wisely the domains, you can get valuable extra spells.
It's not just the spells but also the abilities. Even at 1st level, a Cleric could have two free feats, even things like Luck of Heroes or Evasion which would be tricky to get otherwise.
4) turn undead? I love being in cemetery with my party... they are running to fight aggressively, then my PC turns undead and... no one left to fight. Ahaaaaa! I'm proud!
This is a fairly setting-dependant thing. OK, most games are fairly undead-heavy, but they needn't be.
the animal companion? I never use them because they're so fragile I am always afraid the can easily die, so for me, druids have not even a single "plus" on their side!
I haven't tried them but apparently Dino Companions are awesome (well, they're awesome just for being dinos) and if you dual you can take Natural Bond. Even if they are fragile, it's not that big a deal if your animal dies, so it's worth having them if only for a meat shield.
However, the thing with Clerics is that they can take the animal domain and get an animal companion too, and still have a spare domain and all the other bonuses. Then a Druid is left with, what, Woodland Stride? And things like Oaken Resilience. I mean, they're good, but I'm just not sure they add up to the bonuses Clerics get.
#16
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:53
Haventh
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Druid pros
- More/better offensive spells
- Possibility for higher ac
- Many debuff spells
- More defensive spells
- Shapeshiftng, which gives variety for those who like that, and dragonshape is awesome
- Animal companion, good level buddy and can get powerful with jagged/gmf, nature's avatar and awaken
- Immune to poisen
- Woodland stride (say what you want, but bonus speed is good)
Cons
- Not so strong in melee offense
- Reliant on shapes for good melee (a con for some)
- No revive dead spells
- Restricted alignment
Cleric pros
- Can get extremely good in offense with melee buffs
- Domains
- Revive dead spells
- Undead / outsider turning
- Divine might
- Good healer (healing domain)
Cons
- Not so great defense
- Restricted to domains of your god on some rp servers
- More/better offensive spells
- Possibility for higher ac
- Many debuff spells
- More defensive spells
- Shapeshiftng, which gives variety for those who like that, and dragonshape is awesome
- Animal companion, good level buddy and can get powerful with jagged/gmf, nature's avatar and awaken
- Immune to poisen
- Woodland stride (say what you want, but bonus speed is good)
Cons
- Not so strong in melee offense
- Reliant on shapes for good melee (a con for some)
- No revive dead spells
- Restricted alignment
Cleric pros
- Can get extremely good in offense with melee buffs
- Domains
- Revive dead spells
- Undead / outsider turning
- Divine might
- Good healer (healing domain)
Cons
- Not so great defense
- Restricted to domains of your god on some rp servers
Modifié par Haventh, 18 août 2010 - 08:54 .
#17
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:33
Vaalyah
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Hmmm, I think I disagree... sure, druids have some interesting spell like ice storm, at (if I remember correctly) 5th spell level, while clerics have to wait a bit more for interesting spells. But clerics have more defensive and debuff spells, plus they are stronger in melee...
But maybe I am biased, since my character has really high statistic in almost everything (the worse are constitution, being an elf, and... ehm... wisdom :-D )
But maybe I am biased, since my character has really high statistic in almost everything (the worse are constitution, being an elf, and... ehm... wisdom :-D )
#18
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:38
Vaalyah
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@ The Fred: you said "Even if they are fragile, it's not that big a deal if your animal dies, so it's worth having them if only for a meat shield." yes, it is true. But a REAL druid would never let his/her animal being killed. So here you are not thinking like a real druid, but just for power playing. In my opinion, you have to think at the videogame like a real D&D game. If a druid has the companion killed... it is not so non influential...
#19
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:23
MasterChanger
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The other issue I forgot to mention before about cleric's inflated power is that essentially every AB-boosting spell stacks, and clerics have those out the wazoo. I believe even in PnP 3.5 effects of the same type don't stack.
I think Kaedrin was discussing a system for tracking effect types (as part of a potential Pathfinder ruleset conversion) and preventing stacking the same ones with some exceptions; perhaps Pain's forays into giving every spell an appropriate descriptor would help here as well.
I think Kaedrin was discussing a system for tracking effect types (as part of a potential Pathfinder ruleset conversion) and preventing stacking the same ones with some exceptions; perhaps Pain's forays into giving every spell an appropriate descriptor would help here as well.
Modifié par MasterChanger, 19 août 2010 - 02:24 .
#20
Posté 19 août 2010 - 06:42
Haplose
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Haventh wrote...
Cleric pros
[...]
Cons
- Not so great defense
Actually I disagree. Cleric has access to Divine Shield with possible AC boosts better then the Druid could hope for. In a setting where overpowered items are not very abundant Magic Vestments + Shield of Faith give him an edge as well. Not to mention he can get that Barkskin spell too via the Plant Domain.
Druids get the damage reduction spells, yes. Cleric could get the basic one with Earth Domain too, I suppose. But these can be entirely ignored with Adamantine weapons. They aren't THAT hot.
It is better not to be hit in the first place then shrug a part of the damage. Depending on domain choices, Clerics can get Greater Invisibility. With Kaedrin's pack they can even get BOTH Displacement AND Mirror Image via Illusion Domain. Not to mention Premonition with Fate Domain.
Also consider that Cleric starts with Heavy Armor proficiency. Sure a Druid can wear a Mithrall Fullplate - which happens to be the best armor in the game - but how often do you start the game with that?
Let's not forget spell defence. Druids get Spell Resistance, period. Clerics get that too and can also use Mantle spells which offer a much better protection against dedicated casters.
All in all, I sadly have to disagree that Druids make better tanks then Clerics. It's just that more people build their Clerics in a more aggressive way, rather then using all the defensive options available. If everything dies within seconds from crossing swords with a Clerics, he rarely needs to worry about defence.
Druids have less options, their offence sucks, so they are more likely to be defense focused. But in my opinion a Cleric can not only out-damage, but also out-tank a Druid.
It's a shame really how poorly the Druids are implemented in NWN2, as they happen to be my favourite class.
Modifié par Haplose, 19 août 2010 - 06:44 .
#21
Posté 19 août 2010 - 08:58
Haventh
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Well, i simply stated my pros and cons for cleric and druid, it was just my opinion, as you have your own.
From the way i see it, if you want power , go cleric. If you want variety, go druid, if you want fun pick the one you like most. Again, thats just my opinion, take it how you wish.
Druid is also one of my top fav classes together with bard and sorc.
From the way i see it, if you want power , go cleric. If you want variety, go druid, if you want fun pick the one you like most. Again, thats just my opinion, take it how you wish.
Druid is also one of my top fav classes together with bard and sorc.
Modifié par Haventh, 19 août 2010 - 09:02 .
#22
Posté 19 août 2010 - 01:46
nicethugbert
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Cleric is a fairly well rounded, versatile, and generic class, even if you compare it to other games and systems such as The Witcher, Two Worlds, etc. He can focus to be among the best in certain situations and still get by in others.
#23
Posté 19 août 2010 - 05:11
The Fred
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Vaalyah wrote...
@ The Fred: you said "Even if they are fragile, it's not that big a deal if your animal dies, so it's worth having them if only for a meat shield." yes, it is true. But a REAL druid would never let his/her animal being killed. So here you are not thinking like a real druid, but just for power playing. In my opinion, you have to think at the videogame like a real D&D game. If a druid has the companion killed... it is not so non influential...
RP-wise, no, a druid would be careful with his/her animal, but RP-wise a cleric would hang 'round temples praying rather than battering people with a mace.
#24
Posté 19 août 2010 - 06:49
Thorsson64
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The Fred wrote...RP-wise a cleric would hang 'round temples praying rather than battering people with a mace.
This is absolute poppycock you know. There aren't many pacifist deities in Faerun.
#25
Posté 19 août 2010 - 09:20
Happycrow
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Yup, they'd be PREACHING and smashing people with maces.
